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New disk controller - drives still not working

N

Neo-Rio

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Feb 13, 2016
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This thread is more or less a continuation of this thread: http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?51179-Broken-Apple-IIe-garbage-screen

I got a new Apple II disk controller card in the mail. Supposed to be tested and working.

When I drop it in my Apple IIe..... ? Drives do not light up and system drops straight to cursor

I tried doing the CALL-151 to monitor and C600L like the other card that I had, but the same issue!
Hex codes were the same. Apparent non-detection.

It makes no difference if the drive is connected or not.... it just drops to cursor.

As an aside, I inserted the new card into slot 7... and then tried C600L, multiple times
Every time I ran that command, the codes that came out were different each time!

Is this perhaps a lingering RAM issue with the Apple IIe that I have?
Is there some way I can fully test the RAM in the apple II, with no access to a disk drive?
Some diagnostic program I can load off the cassette line? I get KERNEL OK from the built in diagnostic... but maybe that's not enough?
 
When you move a card to a different slot, the ROM location changes. Try C700L.

Reading memory were nothing is mapped will result in indeterminant results.

From your previous thread, it sounds like a data line is stuck on the IIe motherboard expansion I/O bus.
 
Ok just thinking out loud, here's what we DO know. Since you get a KERNEL OK we know the ram is good including it's address and data lines.
During the self-test, the CD rom is enabled for address pages C1-DF to run the diagnostic routine in the (C4nn?) range so those address and data lines are ok, too.
However, when a slot rom is enabled, we have a stuck bit on the data lines. Hmmm - how is that switched?

Larry G
 
Ok I'll babble more since I'm reading Sather's book right now. The 8 tri-state outputs of the C1-DF ROM are connected directly to the data bus. When the ROM is disabled and the slot rom is enabled, the pins of the C1-DF ROM all go high impedance. If a pin of that ROM were defective and not go open impedance but stay logic high or low, it would affect the slot rom data lines. During the time the C1-DF ROM is enabled all pins are forced high or low so it could execute routines like a self-test normally until disabled. Maybe you have a defective C1-DF ROM chip ???

Larry G
 
retrogear said:
Ok I'll babble more since I'm reading Sather's book right now. The 8 tri-state outputs of the C1-DF ROM are connected directly to the data bus. When the ROM is disabled and the slot rom is enabled, the pins of the C1-DF ROM all go high impedance. If a pin of that ROM were defective and not go open impedance but stay logic high or low, it would affect the slot rom data lines. During the time the C1-DF ROM is enabled all pins are forced high or low so it could execute routines like a self-test normally until disabled. Maybe you have a defective C1-DF ROM chip ???

Larry G
Click to expand...

If so, is there an image of the C1-DF ROM that I can burn to eeprom?

Mind you, my Apple IIe is non-enhanced, so I suppose I would need the non-enhanced ROM image.
The CD ROM label I have is 342-0135B

Just for the record, I have no other expansions in the Apple other than the drive controller (I have an 80 column RAM expansion - but has been taken out for these tests. It appears to be good.)
I note what SomeGuy said about memory locations for the drive controller. Dropped the controller in slot 7 and sure enough I see the code I'm supposed to see for the drive controller. Only thing is that stuck bit that is ensuring that it never gets recognised.

UPDATE: found the right ROM image. Will make a new eeprom and see how we go.
 
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Since you will be removing the rom, I also had the thought you could power on w/o the rom which might just crash into the monitor and let you check the C600L bytes.
If they were correct it would prove the rom is bad. I was almost tempted to try it on one of my //e's to see what would happen. If something bad happens, I claim no liability :)
 
retrogear said:
Since you will be removing the rom, I also had the thought you could power on w/o the rom which might just crash into the monitor and let you check the C600L bytes.
If they were correct it would prove the rom is bad. I was almost tempted to try it on one of my //e's to see what would happen. If something bad happens, I claim no liability :)
Click to expand...

Removed the ROM
Flashed a new ROM
Inserted new ROM
Apple IIe boots, but disk controller still doesn't work
Removed ROM
Powered on without any CD ROM - I get no beep and a screen full of character garbage
Inserted original CD ROM
Apple IIe boots OK again
Back to where I started

One thing I have noticed is that every time I enter the monitor, the output of C600L is not consistent.
Sometimes the first few bytes are A2 20, but one time I saw 82 20.. and the disassembly was wrong

Kinda makes me think it's RAM, or something...
I'm receiving more RAM in the post, so I'll try removing all the legacy apple RAM and see if it helps.

Strange, because I can play lots of games from the "Apple Game Server" online (http://asciiexpress.net/gameserver/)
Some consolation, I guess, for not having a working disk drive
 
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I would think passing the self test would show the memory is good but maybe not?
You could do a quick 48k memory test from the monitor with this:
]CALL-151
*800:0
*801<800.BFFEM
*801<800.BFFEV
Then use 800:FF or other values. This was suggested to me while I'm troubleshooting my II+.
They also suggested this would run indefinitely. I haven't tried it yet.
800:0 N801<800.BFFEM N801<800.BFFEV N34:0 N
 
do you have another drive? I know hooking the ribbon cable off by one in a direction will fry the card, but it could also damage the drive

if the drive is damaged it might be cooking the card, making a circle of mess
 
It sounds like the RAM and CPU should be OK.

According to this schematic: http://www.applelogic.org/files/IIESCHEMATIC.pdf there should be a 74LS245 (position UB2?) bridging the data lines between the CPU and the expansion slots. Try replacing that chip. Also use a volt meter to check the continuity of D5 from this chip (pin 7) to the expansion slot connector (pin 44).
 
retrogear said:
]CALL-151
*800:0
*801<800.BFFEM
*801<800.BFFEV
Then use 800:FF or other values. This was suggested to me while I'm troubleshooting my II+.
They also suggested this would run indefinitely. I haven't tried it yet.
800:0 N801<800.BFFEM N801<800.BFFEV N34:0 N
Click to expand...

Tried the first one. It listed memory all the way to BEFF
The second one seems to have hung the machine, but there is no screen output, so I can't tell.

there should be a 74LS245 (position UB2?) bridging the data lines between the CPU and the expansion slots. Try replacing that chip.
Click to expand...

I have a PAL Apple IIe, so the motherboard is different from the standard NTSC one.
Will look for an LS245 chip though. Will try replacing it if I find it. Hopefully it is socketed.... (fingers crossed)
 
CALL-151 to the * monitor and try this again and double check your typing:

800:00
801<800.BFFEM
801<800.BFFEV

Nothing should list out. If it does, there is a memory error.
 
Well, I found the 74LS245 chip and replaced it with a brand new one!
Whaddaya know? The drive controller is now being detected!
So the chip was dead, obviously.
Also, my old controller is also being detected, so it was probably that chip all along.

Also ran the memory commands again in the monitor. This time nothing was displayed, so all is well there.

Still have a problem though. I have two apple II drives. I plugged the first one in *correctly*, but the drive lights and spins but does not boot a disk I have. I then decided to try the second drive. It booted the disk into a cracker screen for the game disk (Karateka if you must know), but after that the drive hammered and failed to load.

Upon rebooting the apple, I tried to boot the disk again but.... nothing! It was now just like the first drive.
Probably died of shock!

So at this point I think it's safe to say that there's something amiss with the disk drives.
Now it could be that the drive heads need alignment and a good clean, and that there's probably a chip that could be blown inside the drive due to plugging the pins on the wrong way from before.

Will have to look this up and open these drives to take a look.
These drives are both aftermarket ones - not official Apple Disk ][ units...
 
Here's a photo of the inside of the unit that was working for a bit and then died.
The apple II part of the controller is very simple, and I will probably have a better chance of fixing this one.

IMG_2894.jpg

From what I can tell, the chips on the controller are:
74LS08
74LS02
74LS86
and a ULN2003A

All of these parts I can source, so I'll try socketing and replacing these chips later on.

The other drive I have never seen working, but I managed to evict a dead spider and his friend the dead millipede after opening it up.
 
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I'd start with a good head cleaning. Since you have them apart, a q-tip and alcohol should do the job.

Also, check the disks you are using for damage. What you describe with your Karateka disk sounds like the classic case of the disk scratching itself up. If the disks haven't been used in 30 years, the disks themselves may need a good cleaning before use.

How many disks do you have to test with?

Using ATDPro, you could write a fresh image to a floppy. If that works but the drive will not read other known good disks, then that would indicate an alignment issue.
 
SomeGuy said:
It sounds like the RAM and CPU should be OK.

According to this schematic: http://www.applelogic.org/files/IIESCHEMATIC.pdf there should be a 74LS245 (position UB2?) bridging the data lines between the CPU and the expansion slots. Try replacing that chip. Also use a volt meter to check the continuity of D5 from this chip (pin 7) to the expansion slot connector (pin 44).
Click to expand...

A technique I have found useful is to put a multimeter in diode check mode and place the positive lead on ground (lower left pin on most TTL ICs) and go down the inputs and outputs with the negative lead. You should read a diode bias voltage (about .5 volts) on all pins. Open and shorted pins are trouble. This only works on TTL ICs.
 
I've got loads of disks to test from.

I'm currently trying to get ADTpro to work.
I managed to bootstrap the apple over audio, and then tried formatting a blank disk from it.
The drive seemed to format the disk, grinding upon start and clicking overt the tracks, finishing off with a guttural grind just like it did when the karateka disk failed to work.
The computer said CHECK DISK OR DRIVE DOOR! after completing. Not sure if that's normal, but it doesn't sound normal.

I'm going to try and transfer a disk image to the drive, to see if this is simply an alignment problem. I just need to find a computer with audio out and mic options (and not audio/mic on a single plug)

If it is an alignment problem, is there a guide on how to realign it?
Sounds like all the drive hammering could have knocked it out of alignment.
 
Trying to transfer a disk over ADTPro.
I can see the PC directory with the disk, but it gets about 4 blocks in and hangs.
Rescanning the drive gets <IO-ERROR> listed instead of the format label I thought I made.
Having trouble getting this working.

My guess is that the drive is barfing once the transfer starts, although I could be wrong.
A "V" is left on the screen during the hang, which makes me think that verifying the disk contents is failing and hence the transfer is jammed.

Reading a disk in fails as well with some kind of java error.

If this drive is out of alignment, it's really banged out.
Otherwise, I think I will socket and replace the logic chips anyway.... to see if it helps.
 
Neo-Rio said:
Otherwise, I think I will socket and replace the logic chips anyway.... to see if it helps.
Click to expand...

Nope it didn't help.
socketed and replaced the four chips, but it's still not booting anything.
Drive is probably out of alignment, or the TEAC mechanism is broken somewhere in it's circuitry.

I'm hoping that the alignment is easy to fix.

The drive mech is a TEAC FD-55A

I tried using the Apple Disk Server Online to create a formatted ADTPro disk.
It gets as far as saying that it is going to format the disk, but unlike the formatter within ADTPro, the drive just spins until the message DISK ERROR appears and dumps me at the monitor
Actually both drives of mine do this.
 
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