Trying to sort through Compact Flash options

[Chris Hafner]

Hi all,

I've been trying to search the forum, search the web, and wade my way through the long XT-IDE thread, but I'm a bit lost and would appreciate some help and/or advice.

I have a 16-64KB 5150 with a CGA card and a memory card that takes me up to 640K of RAM. I'm using a Zip drive for mass storage, but have decided I'd like to take a step up to a flash storage solution, probably most likely Compact Flash. But I'm a bit confused by what's available for purchase for those of us who don't/can't solder. So far as I can tell:

XT/IDE: Well-documented in wikis, but I've seen it described as obsolete, and I haven't seen any sources for assembled boards. I'm also not clear on whether this will work with an original 5150 (with a CF card instead of an IDE hard drive I'm guessing power wouldn't be an issue).

Lo-Tech XT/CF - Seemingly what I need, but obsolete.

Lo-Tech XT/CF v2 - Seemingly what I need, but still in testing to work some bugs out.

Lo-tech XT/CF Lite - Apparently some compromises from the V2, but I'm not sure how big a deal those compromises are. But this also still appears to be under development.

Is this a fair summary? For those of us that don't/can't solder, is there a semi-commercial source for an XT/CF board? At the risk of sounding crass, is there somebody I could pay for an assembled board as with similar flash storage solutions for other vintage computing hardware?

I feel like I'm close to getting this sorted out, but I'd *really* appreciate some help in figuring this out!

Thanks,
Chris Hafner

 

[dabone]

How many slots do you have open? The cheapest, easiest solution might just be a 16bit ide controller and a rom on a network/any card that can take a eprom.
The other question is if your slots can have the 16bit portion of the card hanging over the edge.


I've got a nic and a controller combo that I've already tested that I would let go cheap with the rom already programmed (XTIDE Universal Bios).
Just use a cf/ide adapter from ebay.



I've got one of these style.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/40-Pin-IDE-to-CF-Compact-Flash-Card-Adapter-Bootable-Internal-Memory-Card-Reader-/221166512980?pt=US_Drive_Cables_dapters&hash=item337e8d2b54

3.00 After shipping.


Later,
dabone

 

[mbbrutman]

Chris,

I have a sense that this thread is going to get a lot of replies. Here is the quick and concise summary. (And hopefully accurate.)

XT-IDE should work just fine for you. The second revision cards are faster than the first because of a small addressing change on the address lines. All of them are compatible with the 5150. With a cheap adapter you can connect a Compact Flash card to them through the IDE connector. I think this is your best solution, but there is no source of pre-assembled ones. (An individual owner might be willing to sell one. Also, there is a sleazeball on eBay selling assembled ones for very inflated prices.)

XT-CF .. in varying stages of development/testing. Nowhere near as common as the XT-IDE. I'm sure a more detailed explanation will be appended to this thread.

On a related note, how is your Zip drive connected? The Iomega Guest software wants an 80286 processor, but it can run on a NEC V20. The SCSI version runs with generic removable ASPI support. What does your setup look like?


Mike

 

[Chris Hafner]

Thanks for the offer, dabone - just to rephrase to make sure I understand, you have a controller board with the XTIDE BIOS already loaded that you'd be willing to sell me, and all I'd need to do is order an IDE->CF adapter like in that eBay listing? I'm still feeling my way here, so I want to make sure I'm totally clear.

Mike, thanks for the great explanation, that helps out a lot. To answer the Zip question - I'm using Klaus Peichl's Palmsys driver that works with 8088 machines. It works really well and is lighter-weight than the Iomega driver. The only downside is that for some reason whenever the machine has to calculate available space on the drive (i.e. after running a DIR) it takes quite some time - I'd estimate 20-40 seconds. Not a huge deal in the big scheme of things, but that's one reason I'd love to have CF as my primary mass storage device.

Here's the link to the Palmsys driver, if you're interested in using it:
http://leute.server.de/peichl/palmzipe.htm

Thanks,
Chris Hafner

 

[mbbrutman]

Yes, I am familiar with the PalmZip driver - I am a registered user of it too. It was a great piece of work, but it runs a little slowly compared to what the drive is capable of.

The big delay that you are seeing is due to the 8088 CPU in the machine. You are probably running a later version of DOS; anything above DOS 3.3 seems to want to recompute the free space on the partition periodically, and it takes a few seconds to do that. The delay increases with the size of the partition. So even with CF storage, it is still going to be unbearably long. ; - 0


Mike

 

[pearce_jj]

Hello! The only pre-assembled route is to use a 16-bit ISA multi-IO adapter, attach a CompactFlash to IDE adapter, and use the XTIDE Universal BIOS with the new(ish) 8-bit IO mode. However, you need somewhere to store the BIOS and a way to program it too. But, the cost of this solution is very low. Checkout the BIOS development thread for more info on how this actually works, and to find some known-working 16-bit adapters to search out on eBay.

XTIDE rev.1 cards do come up from time to time, but usually don't hang around for long. Assembling one of the v2 boards though is pretty easy with the aid of some soldering videos on YouTube and the necessary BIOS can be programmed in-system.

Your summary of the lo-tech boards is pretty much correct. The new lite version is sold out (and requires self-assembly anyway), and the v2 has some issues left to solve.

 

[dabone]

I'm offering a Network card that holds the bios and a ide card, you plug both into the machine and then add the ide/cf adapter.
If you don't have the 3 slots open, then you could get a internal adapter for the cf card.

$10.00 + Shipping.
(Both should fit in a small flat rate box, so 6.00 for shipping.)

I bought a couple of IDE only cards to test with and don't need them anymore. And I have plenty of ISA nics.

Later,
dabone

 

[modem7]

I have a 16-64KB 5150

According to a post that you made in January, your 16KB-64KB 5150 has the second BIOS revision.
That BIOS does not recognise BIOS expansion ROMs, such as used on EGA/VGA cards, and the XTIDE Universal BIOS as used on the XT-IDE card.
Have you upgraded your machine to the third BIOS revision, or is it still at the second revision?

 

[Chris Hafner]

Thanks again for all the help, everybody! Thanks for your patience with me as I try to get educated.

Mike, apologies for overexplaining about the Palmsys driver. That's good feedback on the higher versions of DOS driving the slow space recalculation - I'll try moving back to DOS 3.3 from the 5.0 I've been running to see if that makes a difference.

Dabone, I have one completely open slot, with another that I should be able to clear. At least I think so - there's just a port in place, cabled from a card in an adjoining slot - a male DB25 from the Async 1 area on that card, which I'm guessing is something serial/null modem related and isn't important to me at the moment. So that's two open slots. They're not next to each other, but if necessary I can rearrange unless there are limitations on which cards that go in which slots that I'm completely ignorant of. I'll shoot you a PM to discuss.

According to a post that you made in January, your 16KB-64KB 5150 has the second BIOS revision.
That BIOS does not recognise BIOS expansion ROMs, such as used on EGA/VGA cards, and the XTIDE Universal BIOS as used on the XT-IDE card.
Have you upgraded your machine to the third BIOS revision, or is it still at the second revision?

Good memory, modem7! As it turns out, I've relegated that machine to backup status and picked up second 16-64KB machine locally that is much more stable and reliable (and got it for free, in stark contrast with the first one, go figure). This one has the third BIOS revision, so hopefully I'm in good shape there.