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VAX 4000-105a disk troubleshooting

T

techtatan

Experienced Member
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May 20, 2012
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france
Hello everybody

it's been a while but I finally had the time and the opportunity to get back into a new vintage computing adventure.

my brother recently gave me a vax 4000-105a that he recovered from his work seemingly put out of service in 2012. he saved it when they emptied a local.

not being very familiar with this material, I managed to boot it on the only hard drive that seemed functional.

after some research I was able to change the system password. and therefore access the openVMS 6.2 system

There are 3 dssi hard dirves RF36

in order to save the contents of the system disk I wanted to know if it was possible to clone these disks and if so what software should be used?

what is the original configuration of the 3 dssi disks? is it a RAID configuration?

the manual I found does not give any information about default disk configurations onlys disk specification (hardware specs)


I hope someone has the courage to delve into his memories and the time to help me in my goal:)
 
Looks like an RF36 DSSI drive has a capacity of 1GB. If you have some spare SCSI hard drives which are at least 1GB in size that you could attach to the VAX 4000 you could use VMS BACKUP /IMAGE to clone the RF36 DSSI drive on to the SCSI drive.

I think an /IMAGE backup only works if the drives have exactly the same capacity. You could use the sg3_utils sg_format utility to soft resize a SCSI drive with a capacity larger than the RF36 drive down to exactly the same capacity as the RF36 drive.

As far as a RAID configuration on VMS, the only software option that comes to mind is VMS shadow sets. I don't have any experience configuring and using VMS shadow sets.
 
HI Gslick

thank you for this informations.
As i'm new to vms i have a few questions :
Is VMS BACKUP /IMAGE part of operating system ?
if so, i dont think that i can clone the drive while it is in use true ?
should i boot from a kind of "live cd" to clone the system disk ?

do you thing i can clone the dssi drive in a scsi capable machine using the linux dd command ? or is this a completely foolish speculation


Also i have 2 bad dssi drives one that starts but make an horrible sound and the other does not spin up at all.
Will it make sens to swap drive module between the mechanic set for some tests or are there any specific calibration information on the drive module that make this work only on one mechanic set ? like old MFF drives for exemple ?


can i connect a scsi drive to the same connector as the dssi drives ?

sorry if some of my questions does not make sense to you but as i'm really new to this technology i don't want to damage anything.


king regards
 
The way you normally install VMS from an installation CD is to boot the VAX from the CD and then run BACKUP from the CD to restore a save set from the CD to the new boot drive. Instead of doing that you should be able to boot from the installation CD and run BACKUP with other options to back up the boot drive.

You can't connect the DSSI drive to normal systems. DSSI is similar to SCSI in some ways, but they are not compatible. There are bridge controllers such as the HSD10 that can connect a DSSI host controller to SCSI drives, but I don't think there is anything that goes the other way to connect a SCSI host controller to DSSI drives.

The desktop VAX 4000 systems that have a DSSI bus also have a SCSI bus as far as I know. So you would connect the DSSI drives where they are already connected, and connect a SCSI drive to the separate SCSI bus.

There are also low level diagnostics built into DSSI drives that you can connect to from the VAX console prompt before you boot into VMS. SET HOST DUP or something like that. I'd have to look it up in the manuals. Don't have time to check right this moment. I'll look later.
 
hi again

i will look on documentation to locate the right buss, and hope to find some docs about backup options.
i read about direct disk acces on dssi i will look further that way.

what about exchanging disk drives modules ? (the drive card on the disk) any cons-indications doing so ?


Thanks for everything

Kind regards
 
"I think an /IMAGE backup only works if the drives have exactly the same capacity."

No, it just needs enough space, it's not the same as 'cloning'. Forget any ideas of DOS or UNIX type file systems. In fact you can backup/image to tape if you like.

"Is VMS BACKUP /IMAGE part of operating system ?
if so, i dont think that i can clone the drive while it is in use true ?
should i boot from a kind of "live cd" to clone the system disk ?"

Well, it IS part of the OS but it's intended to be able to image (not 'clone') the system disk and you'd normally do it from say the system account with no one else logged in and nothing else running. Have a quick read of the system manager's manual. It's a routine maintenance activity.
 
I have a very detailed how to on my site about managing a vax 4000-200 running 6.x

http://www.vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=608

There should be a drive in that set assigned to the purpose of standalone backup.

All that said, before you back anything up type or edit systartup.com to see how the drives are mounted, their volume names, etc.

Again, don't backup the system drive to another drive without knowing exactly how the system uses the drives. You could ruin your system as it was made to work.

I can fire up a vms 6 system that you can telnet into if you want to see another for comparison purposes, next week during the day.

Bill
 
Below is a quick example of booting a VAX system (SIMH simulator in this case) from the VMS 7.3 installation CD and running standalone BACKUP /PHYSICAL to clone one disk to another.

KA655-B V5.3, VMB 2.7
Performing normal system tests.
40..39..38..37..36..35..34..33..32..31..30..29..28..27..26..25..
24..23..22..21..20..19..18..17..16..15..14..13..12..11..10..09..
08..07..06..05..04..03..
Tests completed.
>>>SHOW DEV
UQSSP Disk Controller 0 (772150)
-DUA0 (RD54)
-DUA1 (RD54)
-DUA2 (RRD40)

Ethernet Adapter 0 (774440)
-XQA0 (08-00-2B-AA-BB-CC)
>>>BOOT DUA2
(BOOT/R5:0 DUA2



2..
-DUA2
1..0..


%SYSBOOT-I-SYSBOOT Mapping the SYSDUMP.DMP on the System Disk
%SYSBOOT-W-SYSBOOT Can not map SYSDUMP.DMP on the System Disk
%SYSBOOT-W-SYSBOOT Can not map PAGEFILE.SYS on the System Disk
OpenVMS (TM) VAX Version X7G7 Major version id = 1 Minor version id = 0
%WBM-I-WBMINFO Write Bitmap has successfully completed initialization.
PLEASE ENTER DATE AND TIME (DD-MMM-YYYY HH:MM) 05-NOV-2017 13:55

Configuring devices . . .
Now configuring HSC, RF, and MSCP-served devices . . .

Please check the names of the devices which have been configured,
to make sure that ALL remote devices which you intend to use have
been configured.

If any device does not show up, please take action now to make it
available.


Available device DUA0: device type RD54
Available device DUA1: device type RD54
Available device DUA2: device type RRD40

Enter "YES" when all needed devices are available: YES
%BACKUP-I-IDENT, Stand-alone BACKUP T7.2; the date is 5-NOV-2017 13:56:55.56
$ BACKUP /PHYSICAL DUA0: DUA1:
%BACKUP-I-PROCDONE, operation completed. Processing finished at 5-NOV-2017 13:57:47.65
If you do not want to perform another standalone BACKUP operation,
use the console to halt the system.

If you do want to perform another standalone BACKUP operation,
ensure the standalone application volume is online and ready.
Enter "YES" to continue:
Click to expand...
 
And here is what happens if you try BACKUP /PHYSICAL when the two drives do not have identical characteristics:

KA655-B V5.3, VMB 2.7
Performing normal system tests.
40..39..38..37..36..35..34..33..32..31..30..29..28..27..26..25..
24..23..22..21..20..19..18..17..16..15..14..13..12..11..10..09..
08..07..06..05..04..03..
Tests completed.
>>>SHOW DEV
UQSSP Disk Controller 0 (772150)
-DUA0 (RD52)
-DUA1 (RD54)
-DUA2 (RRD40)

Ethernet Adapter 0 (774440)
-XQA0 (08-00-2B-AA-BB-CC)
>>>BOOT DUA2
(BOOT/R5:0 DUA2



2..
-DUA2
1..0..


%SYSBOOT-I-SYSBOOT Mapping the SYSDUMP.DMP on the System Disk
%SYSBOOT-W-SYSBOOT Can not map SYSDUMP.DMP on the System Disk
%SYSBOOT-W-SYSBOOT Can not map PAGEFILE.SYS on the System Disk
OpenVMS (TM) VAX Version X7G7 Major version id = 1 Minor version id = 0
%WBM-I-WBMINFO Write Bitmap has successfully completed initialization.
PLEASE ENTER DATE AND TIME (DD-MMM-YYYY HH:MM) 05-NOV-2017 14:05

Configuring devices . . .
Now configuring HSC, RF, and MSCP-served devices . . .

Please check the names of the devices which have been configured,
to make sure that ALL remote devices which you intend to use have
been configured.

If any device does not show up, please take action now to make it
available.


Available device DUA0: device type RD52
Available device DUA1: device type RD54
Available device DUA2: device type RRD40

Enter "YES" when all needed devices are available: YES
%BACKUP-I-IDENT, Stand-alone BACKUP T7.2; the date is 5-NOV-2017 14:07:07.06
$ BACKUP /PHYSICAL DUA0: DUA1:
%BACKUP-F-PHYDEVGEO, device type of DUA1: does not match input
If you do not want to perform another standalone BACKUP operation,
use the console to halt the system.

If you do want to perform another standalone BACKUP operation,
ensure the standalone application volume is online and ready.
Enter "YES" to continue:
Click to expand...
 
Here is an example of using the VAX console on a MicroVAX 3300 KA640 to connect to the built in utilities on an RF31 DSSI drive. It should be similar on a VAX 4000 with RF36 drives.

You could also try DRVEXR and DRVTST on your RF36 DSSI drives. Just make sure you take a look at the manual and make sure you only runs the tests in non-destructive data modes until you have successfully backed up the drives and verified the backups if you want to preserve the drive contents.

RF Series Integrated Storage Element User Guide
Order Number: EK-RF72D-UG-008 RF72DUG8.PDF


KA640-A V5.3, VMB 2.7
Performing normal system tests.
41..40..39..38..37..36..35..34..33..32..31..30..29..28..27..26..
25..24..23..22..21..20..19..18..17..16..15..14..13..12..11..10..
09..08..07..06..05..04..03..
Tests completed.
>>>SHOW DSSI
DSSI Node 0 (VMSSYS)
-DIA0 (RF31)

DSSI Node 1 (VMSUSR)
-DIA1 (RF30)

DSSI Node 7 (*)
>>>SET HOST/DUP/DSSI 0
Starting DUP server...

DSSI Bus 0 Node 0 (VMSSYS)
Copyright (C) 1990 Digital Equipment Corporation
PRFMON V1.0 D 1-FEB-1991 08:10:14
DRVEXR V2.0 D 1-FEB-1991 08:10:14
DRVTST V2.0 D 1-FEB-1991 08:10:14
HISTRY V1.1 D 1-FEB-1991 08:10:14
DIRECT V1.0 D 1-FEB-1991 08:10:14
ERASE V2.0 D 1-FEB-1991 08:10:14
VERIFY V1.0 D 1-FEB-1991 08:10:14
DKUTIL V1.0 D 1-FEB-1991 08:10:14
PARAMS V2.0 D 1-FEB-1991 08:10:14
Total of 9 programs.

Task Name? DKUTIL
Copyright (C) 1990 Digital Equipment Corporation

DKUTIL> HELP
DEFAULT [/qualifiers]
DISPLAY [/qualifiers] {ALL|FCT|RCT|CHAR DISK}
/FULL /ITEMS
DUMP [/qualifiers] {BUFFER|type n|PBN h:t:s}
/HEADER /EDC /DATA
/NZ /ECC /ALL
/RAW
EXIT
GET [/qualifiers]
/IMF /WP
HELP
POP
PUSH
REPLACE lbn
SET SIZE 512

Use "GET" before using I/O commands


DKUTIL> GET
Serial Number: 0000825700003132
Mode: ADDE(X)
First Formatted: 2-MAY-1991 13:56:09
Date Formatted: 2-MAY-1991 13:56:09
Format Instance: 1
FCT: VALID

DKUTIL> DISP CHA DIS

Drive characteristics for drive VMSSYS$DIA0

Type: RF31 (512 byte mode only)
Media: Fixed
Cylinders: 1861 LBN, 5 XBN, 5 DBN
Geometry: 1 tracks/group, 8 groups/cylinder, 8 tracks/cylinder
50 LBNs/track, 1 RBNs/track, 51 sectors/track, 51 XBNs/track
408 XBNs/cylinder, 400 LBNs/cylinder, 8 RBNs/cylinder
Group Offset: 17 (LBN), 0 (XBN)
LBNs: 744400 (host), 745416 (total)
RBNs: 14888
XBNs: 1016
DBNs: 1632 (read/write), 408 (read only)
PBNs: 821304
RCT: 127 (size), 8 (copies)
FCT: 127 (size), 8 (copies)
Retry Limits: 16 (retry), 3 (badblk)
ECC Threshold: 3/2 (normal), 0/0 (format)
Revision: 10 (hardware), 50 (firmware)
Drive ID: 3698116140420000
Click to expand...
 
hello everybody !

thak you all for your help and tips :)

billdeg said:
I have a very detailed how to on my site about managing a vax 4000-200 running 6.x

http://www.vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=608
Click to expand...

I will check your "how to" as soon as possible some how this week.

There should be a drive in that set assigned to the purpose of standalone backup.
Click to expand...

In my system there are 3 dssi drives (only one seem to work) in the default setup is one of the 3 drives the backup drive ?

I can fire up a vms 6 system that you can telnet into if you want to see another for comparison purposes, next week during the day.

Bill
Click to expand...

This would be very kind of you.

Well, it IS part of the OS but it's intended to be able to image (not 'clone') the system disk and you'd normally do it from say the system account with no one else logged in and nothing else running. Have a quick read of the system manager's manual. It's a routine maintenance activity.
Click to expand...

will a backup image be bootable on another disk (does it contain "partition structure" something like MBR ?) or is a backup /image just intended to be used on exactly the same drive ?


thank you all again, Kind regards
 
OK...SO if I understand you can boot into one of the three drives only and you're *sure* there is no drive designated as the backup drive? If you clone a drive you will be able to boot into it, assuming the source was bootable. But I suggest learning more about your system first. After you get to the $ prompt type can you run

$ SHOW DEV D

and tell us what you see.

For comparison purposes run the following at the >>> prompt:

>>> SHOW DEV

Contact me privately when you're ready to have me turn on my system so you can telnet into it. VAX is pretty easy once you get the hang of it, I was a total newbie last year. Now I am dangerous but I can do the basics enough to support a VMS 6.x system.

Bill
 
I have the server up now if anyone wants to log in to use it. I have a test account and in the directory is a copy of my startup script so you can see one for comparison purposes. You can telnet in, PM me for UN/PW/Host. Use edit or print to view the file. ctrl+Z to exit/save....you wont hurt anything it's just a copy.

compare with what you have in sysmgr -
$ dir sys$common:[sysmgr]

Bill
 
Last edited:
hello everybody,

here is a little up

my configuration is a VAX 4000-105a
for the moment my only acces to this machine is a VT320 (as i can't find my serial to usb cable :confused:)
i also have a storage box BA360KB not powered up for the moment.


$ SHOW DEV D

and tell us what you see.

For comparison purposes run the following at the >>> prompt:

>>> SHOW DEV
Click to expand...

i haved a look at the output from "$show dev d" but i can not copy/past it at the moment, i will bring it later

>>> SHOW DEV

DSSI Bus 0 NODE O (SYSTEM)
-DIA0 (RF36)

DSSI Bus 0 Node 1 (DISK1)
-DIA1 (RF36)

DSSI Bus 0 Node 2 (DISK2)
-DIA2 (RF36)

DSSI Bus 0 Node 7 (*)

DSSI Bus 1 Node 5 (*)

SCSI Adapter A, SCSI ID 6
-DKA400 (DEC RRD43)

Ethernet Adapter
-EZA0 (08-00-2B-94-8E-53)

As i have a ethernet adapter i need some help to configure it trying to acces the machine this way.

$SHOW NETWORK

This is a nonrouting node, and does not have any network information,
The designated router for LYN003 is node 0 LYN003.

when i try to configure network i have the following error message :
@SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSMGR]TCPIP$CONFIG.COM
-RMS-E-FNF, file not found

show device EZA0 says status online

How can i check TCPIP service status and configure network ?

Just for information Billdeg the keyboard issue i pm about was a VT320 configuration issue (as i'm not used to this terminals .... i searched a lot arroud :confused:)

i also walked through the links you provide found some usefull infos like http://h30266.www3.hpe.com/odl/vax/network/tcpipv42/install/6524pro.html#config_checklist1

but regarding my system dir UCX seems to be installed.

so some hints would be helpfull

kind regards
 
Hi again

finally found my tcp/ip config using "ucx show interface" :

question is it save to change the ip adress of a OpenVM server ? at this time i only use show "query" commands in order to not destroy anything.

What are your recommandations if i need to change the IP address ?

Kind regards
 
Certainly no expert, but I have UCX installed on my VAXstation.

You can certainly change the IP address of a VMS server as much as you wish. The recommended and easiest way of changing it is using the configuration manager, either using @SYS$MANAGER:UCX$CONFIG or @SYS$MANAGER:TCPIP$CONFIG. It's a simple menu based system and is simple as following the on screen instructions.
 
Hello,

After a bit sleeping and lot of readings i found the IP adress of the VAX 4000 and so was able to connect to openVMS without changing its network configuration via a second Ethernet interface i added to my computer :


┌──────────────────────────────────────────────┐
│ CONNEXION SUR LYN003 4105 VAX/VMS │
└──────────────────────────────────────────────┘



Username: SYSTEM
Password:
Welcome to OpenVMS VAX version V6.2 on node LYN003
Last interactive login on Sunday, 12-NOV-2017 17:44
Last non-interactive login on Monday, 3-JAN-2000 16:57
$


so i reconnected all the dssi drives to provide the informations you asked for.

Note the external storage box is not connected at this moment.

here is the output about disk configuration from inner system

$ SHOW DEV D

Device Device Error Volume Free Trans Mnt
Name Status Count Label Blocks Count Cnt
DNFS0: Online 0
LYN003$DKA400: Online wrtlck 0
SYSTEM$DIA0: Mounted 0 OPENVMS061 90400 467 1

compare to device configuration from terminal prompt

DSSI Bus 0 NODE O (SYSTEM)
-DIA0 (RF36)

DSSI Bus 0 Node 1 (DISK1)
-DIA1 (RF36)

DSSI Bus 0 Node 2 (DISK2)
-DIA2 (RF36)

DSSI Bus 0 Node 7 (*)

DSSI Bus 1 Node 5 (*)

SCSI Adapter A, SCSI ID 6
-DKA400 (DEC RRD43)

Ethernet Adapter
-EZA0 (08-00-2B-94-8E-53)


can you identify a disk backup configuration regarding the above informations ?


As my goal is still to backup the most data possible from the old hard drives and especially system drive before i loose anything.

any help in achieving my goal will be the most apreciated

Kind regards,
 
From the >>> prompt try

>>> b/1 Dia0:
SYSBOOT> continue

Enter the date if asked and then run
show dev d

... if you make it to the $ prompt. At least one of these three will be a backup utility drive I bet.

Repeat for dia1 dia2.

If show dev d shows one or both of the other drives as MOUNTED then that's a main boot disk and you need to understand what that drive's systartup_vms.com is doing.

If you can find an external drive just for backups that might be thr way to go. My initial instinct is that dia0 will be the boot drive and one other will be a 2nd data 9r program drive. The 3rd will be a backup utility drive. Backups would have been to the network tape.

Bill
 
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