What are good examples of Windows Vista/7 era laptops that can run XP?

[GiGaBiTe]

Video memory and Windows memory are 2 different things.

They are not. Both system memory and VRAM occupy space in the CPU's address space. The only difference between them is their purpose, and how they're attached to the system. The CPU can write data directly into the video card's memory because it is present in the x86 address space, so can the GPU use system memory to store data.

In Linux, you can directly assign some or all of video memory to a block device and use it as storage. This wouldn't be possible if the video memory was bank switched.

Windows makes all address allocation under 4GB or drivers would not work.

False. The reason that Microsoft forces drivers into the 32 bit address space is because of memory licensing. If you run a 32 bit server version of Windows that allows for PAE to address more than 4 GB of system memory (Windows 2000 Advanced Server or higher, Windows Server 2003 Enterprise or higher) then drivers can load and store data outside of the 32 bit address space.

Linux with a PAE/PSE kernel don't have these artificial limits.

So, a 4GB GPU might need to allocate 512MB of the 4GB main RAM for what it's doing leaving you with max of 3.5GB if nothing else is installed. If you want to run 2 cards in SLI then that's another 512MB taken up, etc. I look at it as a window to getting data chunks to the GPU and not a store of all the data in the GPU VRAM.

That is not how it works. If Windows and the video driver can't find a place to map memory, it is lost and unusable.

 

[Unknown_K]

Who cares about what Linux does we are talking 32bit Windows.

So, you are saying I can't use a 4GB GPU in normal 32bit Windows because there won't be any RAM left over?

 

[GiGaBiTe]

Who cares about what Linux does we are talking 32bit Windows.

You aren't reading then. Linux operates with the same system constraints as Windows does. It's just Windows is worse because Microsoft imposes arbitrary memory licensing limits, except on Server versions, where they impose *less* memory licensing and allow you to use more memory. Only do the most expensive Windows Server versions allow up to the PAE/PSE limit of 64 GB.

So, you are saying I can't use a 4GB GPU in normal 32bit Windows because there won't be any RAM left over?

I already explained what Windows does when it runs out of address space, you just didn't read it.

If Windows runs out of addressing space to place devices in the memory map, it starts reducing the amount of system memory available to make space for it. If that doesn't work, it will start reducing the amount of addressing space on system devices if they allow it, which video cards do. Windows will maintain a minimum amount of system memory, which I've found to be between 1.5-2 GB. This amount is based on system configuration and even the system BIOS. I've encountered it many times. If Windows runs out of address space, it will stop trying to map devices into memory and throw errors in the device manager, usually "Windows can't find enough free resources for this device" or something along those lines.

There is no bank switching of anything, it is not supported.

 

[Unknown_K]

I was looking for a yes, or no. If Windows needs to map all of the 4GB VRAM of the GPU into memory then any Windows 32 bit without PAE/PSE cannot run with a 4GB GPU is what you are saying?

Everything I have read is that 32 bit Windows reserves something like 256-768MB of RAM for PCIE Support depending on the cards used.

 

[Agent Orange]

All of that is theory and behind the scenes hoop-dee-do and very appropriate for the classroom. My XP 32bit gamer has the standard 4GB of system memory and a video card with 1GB of video memory. So, as a litmus test I can run either Tom Clancy's H.A.W.K or Half Life and each will run flawlessly in my setup. It will also run DOOM with no problems. It all comes together and works as it should. Out of specs, yes. Maybe in a server situation it may have problems, but not as a gamer. If you don't believe it, setup a similar system and try it.

 

[bakemono]

There is no bank switching of anything, it is not supported.

Again, not true. Why not read up on what a PCI BAR is? https://www.patreon.com/posts/44371506
When using 32-bit BARs, the CPU can't see more than 256MB at a time. Doesn't really need to anyway, because for large data transfers the GPU itself can just use DMA to copy from system RAM.
listing of PCI BARs on a 32-bit system with ~3.5GB RAM and a GTX 660:

 

[DeltaDon]

The need for 1080P plus an AMD CPU in a laptop really limits your choices. I'm trying to remember if I ever owned a laptop meeting those limits and can't remember one. One of my Windows ME/XP laptops I did use for a long time was an AMS Tech TravelPro 2500 that I upgraded to a K6-3+ CPU and 256K RAM, but it couldn't do 1080P video on its 13.3" LCD. After that era Intel ruled the roost for a number of years. Clevo (ProStar, Sager) might have made a laptop with an AMD CPU, but I can't remember one, and for sure they had the graphics and LCD's to meet your wants. Battery life on most Clevo's is measured in minutes and not hours, IMHO, since they used desktop CPU's and graphic chips.

 

[computerdude92]

Yes, there were plenty of power user/gaming oriented laptops of the day. The problem is that it was the worst era for laptops.

That era was smack dab in the middle of the ROHS solder changeover and laptops were having extremely high failure rates from failing BGA chips. Additionally, you had Nvidia's 8x00M/9x00M GPUs, or their workstation equivalents, Quadro NVS that had defective chip carriers and bond wires to the BGA pads on the ASIC. Once those failed, there was no fixing them, and there are basically no replacements today. Apple snapped up the lions share for their recall programs, and anything that still works today is going to have a short life before it will die.

What about the Radeon HD cards? I saw some Win7 era laptops at the recycling center with AMD APUs and Radeon HD 6000s.

ROHS changeover... When exactly was it happening? I see the GeForce 800M came out in whopping 2014... Was stuff from around 2010 or the late 2000's better in reliability?

 

[GiGaBiTe]

What about the Radeon HD cards? I saw some Win7 era laptops at the recycling center with AMD APUs and Radeon HD 6000s.

Radeon cards up into the 7xxx series had problems with BGA failure in laptops. The hotter the chip, and the more power hungry it is, the more likely it is to fail. You can increase the lifespan of the chip by always keeping the part running and warm, power and thermal cycling is the worst for them.

ROHS changeover... When exactly was it happening? I see the GeForce 800M came out in whopping 2014... Was stuff from around 2010 or the late 2000's better in reliability?

The EU implemented the first ROHS directive in 2002, but manufacturers didn't start switching over to ROHS lead-free solders until 2005. So anything from 2005-2013ish is going to have the most problems. Anything prior to 2005 and after 2013 is going to be more reliable than anything in that time frame. Even though manufacturers started to work things out by 2013 with better ROHS solders, it's still more unreliable than leaded solders and prone to failures. The lack of ductility and work-hardening of ROHS solders continue to be a problem, especially on large BGA chips.