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Repair or Replace?

T

tezza

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2007
Messages
4,731
Location
New Zealand
Trying to maintain vintage computers is not easy. I booted up my old System 80 (Eaca Video Genie) with expansion unit and disk drive tonight after a LONG rest, only to find that the drive didn't seem to want to read the disk. The drive would activate and spin, but it wouldn't seek. I'm not sure if it's the drive, the expansion unit or the computer itself that's at fault. *sigh*

I guess for some people, most of the fun in vintage computers is finding and fixing faults and keeping the old iron going. For other's it's just using the old stuff. I'm in the latter group, and although I can tell the difference between a capacitor and a resistor, I have no wish to spend countless hours with a multimeter or other equipment trying to track down an elusive problem.

How many here actually enjoy the electronics side of the hobby and who else is like me, just wants to things to work, and looks to replace that which doesn't? Given the scarcity of new parts, perhaps I really need to take that digital electronics course! Has anyone come into the hobby not knowing that much about electronics and been forced to learn about it just to maintain their collection?
 
Although I enjoy working machines, especially if there's a quirkiness about them, I'm definitely with the fault-finding crowd, however it's a strange relationship I have with faulty things.
I feel compelled to try to fix them, but unless my ESP is especially highly tuned, and I go straight to the faulty component, I'm usually so fed up with the thing that by the time I've fixed it, there is no sense of elation, just relief that It's done. Probably makes me a techno-masochist.
 
I mostly enjoy using old computers. Although, I do enjoy fixing them as well. It is fulfilling to get an old computer back up and running, or to finally get it to do what you wanted(Say, get on the internet, or home network). I like working on my computers to get them in tip-top shape, as if it just came off the assembly line. But again, I also like using the computers, comparing them to todays machines and pushing them to the edge.

I would say I am in the "fixing" category by 52%, and the rest in the using one.

--Ryan
 
Hi,
I am definitely in the "fix it" camp. One of the fun things about vintage computers is getting a pile of broken scrap, salvaging it, repairing what I can, and making a working machine out of the previously "lost cause" equipment.

It is a lot of fun to rescue and repair old equipment for me. Probably not really practical but still it is fun to use the test equipment and think through all the problems. In addition, it is good mental exercise for electronic engineers. Keeping current in the basics of electronic circuitry is difficult in today's paperwork world.

To each his own though. I personally enjoy fixing the old iron more than using it but that is just me.

Thanks!

Andrew Lynch
 
It's what I do for a living, and, although I like the thrill of victory, when you do it for a living, it's just not as much fun as doing it as a hobby.

Unfortunately, doing it for a living precludes the possibility of doing ANYTHING as a hobby.
 
Have to say I'm a fixer, mostly. What's available in my area limits me to that, and if it's something like a video game console with only a single board and no removable components, then I'll replace it and give the thing away as fixable(just not by me). But if it has lotsa plugs I'll get into it. If there comes along another unit of one that I have that looks nicer, then I may pick it up.
 
For awhile recently, I thought I was in the "like to fix it camp" myself. However, I hadn't merged "bad back" with all this other stuff until recently. I notice now that I let the thing sit untouched for longer and longer, knowing it's going to kill my back to work on it. I have a strong feeling that all the really heavy stuff is going to get re-sold. I never did get any of the Northstar computers working - one of them I put in a new unused motherboard (of course, the tant caps went pOOW.), second one I think I have about 80 hours into it, still refuses to read a disk, and finally the beloved N* Advantage, that one booted properly ONCE, never to repeat.

So, I'm now in the "why doesn't the thing work" camp. And it happens to us all, I had a expensive disk drive. Worked on it, was working perfect. Let it set about 2 months, now doesn't work at all. Something on the main board died so that's the end of that one. It would be close to impossible to find a replacement board to get it going again.
 
I’m definitely in the fix it camp. I’m actually very passionate about it. I love to drag some relic home from a curb or where ever. I spend hours just researching all information available and filling a folder with word docs of information. Then I do whatever it takes to get it running. I usually try to load the factory os and some programs of the era. Sometimes I see how far I can upgrade them with hardware and software. Whatever I do it’s always a fun adventure. :D
 
I'm a fix-it guy for basic stuff like broken wires, broken motherboard traces, bad jacks and switches, and things that are easily fixable without using a Ocilloscope and complex mathmatics.

As for replacement parts, since I mostly work on older (8088-80486) white-box desktop computers, and pre X86 era Macs, I often try to find replacement parts for those that upgrade the specifications to do something "impressive" (like the 286 I have running SVGA graphical internet over a 768K DSL connection and so fourth). I enjoy taking advantage of design flaws, undocumented functionalities, and strange holes in the system's design to bring it to do things the system was never designed to do. Since parts are relatively plentiful, and most stuff up to the 486 era works on everything back to the 8088, I don't have as much of a challenge as I would working with TRS-80s and old S100 bus stuff from the 70's.
 
Course/Book on digital electronics?

Course/Book on digital electronics?

Thanks for those comments guys,

Ya know, I actually would mind being in the FIX-IT camp, as I can imagine there is a lot of satisfaction to be gained from raising things from the dead. Of course , there is also a lot of frustration also as indicated by some here but I won't mind giving it a go if there was some hope of succeeding.

So a question. Does any one know of a good book/web-guide which will give the uninitiated (like me) enough digital electronics knowledge to follow a service manual? As I say, I know the rudimentaries (what current and voltage are, and what resistors, capacitors and transistors do, how to use a multimeter to see if there is a closed circuit and I can solder).....but that's about it.

I'm prepared for a steep learning curve, but it will be an interesting hobby in it's own right?
 
chuckcmagee said:
For awhile recently, I thought I was in the "like to fix it camp" myself. However, I hadn't merged "bad back" with all this other stuff until recently. I notice now that I let the thing sit untouched for longer and longer, knowing it's going to kill my back to work on it. I have a strong feeling that all the really heavy stuff is going to get re-sold. I never did get any of the Northstar computers working - one of them I put in a new unused motherboard (of course, the tant caps went pOOW.), second one I think I have about 80 hours into it, still refuses to read a disk, and finally the beloved N* Advantage, that one booted properly ONCE, never to repeat.

So, I'm now in the "why doesn't the thing work" camp. And it happens to us all, I had a expensive disk drive. Worked on it, was working perfect. Let it set about 2 months, now doesn't work at all. Something on the main board died so that's the end of that one. It would be close to impossible to find a replacement board to get it going again.
Click to expand...
You never know, Chuck; I just had a PCB go on an MFM drive, happened to run across someone with a similar drive with a bad HDA and put his board on mine and now it's working again.

What make/model drive are ya talking about? I've got a few boxes of boards and parts from dead HDs; maybe you'll get lucky too.

m
 
It's a WHAT?? he says back -- it's a Epson PF-10 diskette drive. Poor thing has turned into a nice door stop. Like I said, close to impossible to find a replacement board for this one.
 
I haven't weighed-in on this question yet because I'm still undecided. Do I really enjoy tearing my hair out and cursing at inanimate objects? I dunno, I must, else why would I spend so much time doing it...???

--T
 
chuckcmagee said:
It's a WHAT?? he says back -- it's a Epson PF-10 diskette drive. Poor thing has turned into a nice door stop. Like I said, close to impossible to find a replacement board for this one.
Click to expand...

Luckily, I can repair things at a component level as opposed to board level, so, I probably get a better resurrection percentage.

It's working up the ambition for sitting down with a curve tracer and a whole stack of PCBs and doing it that's the problem, but, every couple of weeks, that's exactly what I do for a day or so.
 
I am about halfway between on this category. I like collecting these old machines but seem to get a great deal of enjoyment working on them also. There are postings on this sight discussing "How many working computers do you have". So apparently most of us have several dead computers lying around. You will be really handicapped if you are a collector and can't repair electronic equipment(or have a friend that can).

Right now I have several repair projects I am working on. My Zorba 2000's power supply died after 1 hour of operation. I also have bought a couple of other "all-in-one" vintage units with problems in the high voltage section of their video circuits. One of them is an HP150 Touchscreen II. Can't find a schematic for it anywhere.

So I am trying to hone my skills in troubleshooting switched mode power supplies and become more familiar with video circuitry. Using a Logic Analyzer is something else I need to learn. It all takes time. Far more that I currently have.
 
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