Advice and help with PC-XT restoring

[JT64]

Hello everyone, i have this really old 8086 only 8-bit isa slots with an green mcga, 640 kb mem or maybe it is 1 MB.

The motherboard is a ITC or something, there is an ide controller do not know the brand in one 8-bit slot. But unfortunatly the original 20 MB hdd gave up longtime ago. Now i have time to start a little project to make the XT tick again.

1. Will the very old ide controller recognise and handle a 10 GB IBM-DTA-351010?

2. Will the controller card recognise a compactflash to ide converter, that i plan to install instead of CD (hope original ide supported two channels). how much space do the cf driver take?

3. I want either an 8-bit or 16-bit isa card that works in 8-bit slot with very "small" memory requirment for driver. Will the AWE64 work in an XT or the the AWE32?

4. Is it possible to get network an ethernetcard connection TCP-ip or slip a computer with 1 MB ram to internet?
Can i get the computer hooked up with my newer computers and somehow get internet connection over some protocol?

5. I think i have a 16 bit ATIMach64 card do the drivers works in 8-bit slot?
Is it just silly and steal memory should i use the onboard CGA instead?

6. What OS to run ELKS, MS-DOS or other dos? CPM?
Can i install bootloaders like grub supporting multiple OS?

Best regards JT

 

[Mike Chambers]

Hello everyone, i have this really old 8086 only 8-bit isa slots with an green mcga, 640 kb mem or maybe it is 1 MB.

The motherboard is a ITC or something, there is an ide controller do not know the brand in one 8-bit slot. But unfortunatly the original 20 MB hdd gave up longtime ago. Now i have time to start a little project to make the XT tick again.

1. Will the very old ide controller recognise and handle a 10 GB IBM-DTA-351010?

2. Will the controller card recognise a compactflash to ide converter, that i plan to install instead of CD (hope original ide supported two channels). how much space do the cf driver take?

3. I want either an 8-bit or 16-bit isa card that works in 8-bit slot with very "small" memory requirment for driver. Will the AWE64 work in an XT or the the AWE32?

4. Is it possible to get network an ethernetcard connection TCP-ip or slip a computer with 1 MB ram to internet?
Can i get the computer hooked up with my newer computers and somehow get internet connection over some protocol?

5. I think i have a 16 bit ATIMach64 card do the drivers works in 8-bit slot?
Is it just silly and steal memory should i use the onboard CGA instead?

6. What OS to run ELKS, MS-DOS or other dos? CPM?
Can i install bootloaders like grub supporting multiple OS?

Best regards JT

well first of all, there is NO way you'll get a 10 GB IDE drive on that 8-bit IDE controller. you need an old drive meant for XTs that supports an 8-bit host bus. they are very old now, expensive, and unreliable. i recommend you get a CF-to-IDE adapter for that thing. it needs to be less than 500 MB. i reccommend a 256 MB card for it.

an AWE32 card will not work. the newest creative card that will go in there and work would be an SB Pro version 2 iirc. 16-bit I/O controllers generally work, other than the IDE controllers on them. there are extra pins for a reason, and other than these types of cards 16-bit ISA cards generally won't do anything in an 8-bit slot.

as far as networking in internet, oh absolutely. i run a web server on one of my XT clones. there is a huge variety of older network cards out there that will work just fine in an 8-bit slot. try an NE1000/NE2000 compatible card, a 3c503, intel etherexpress 8/16, xircom parallel adapter, among others.

you'll want to use a packet driver for whatever card you get. there are a variety of DOS internet programs available including a graphical web browser called Arachne. (however, you don't want to use it on an 8088 unless you like waiting 5 minutes for the google home page to load)

i've written quite a bit of DOS internet software myself such as an IRC client, IRC server, HTTP/FTP server, POP/SMTP e-mail client, etc.. let me know if there's something you want for that thing and i've probably written it.

i recommend just running DOS. i recommend caldera DR-DOS 7.03, because it lets me use two 1.44 MB floppy drives via the 16-bit multi-IO card i have in there even though the BIOS doesn't support it. it's very cool. as far as bootloaders, it's possible but i don't know of any written for an original x86 chip that exist. somebody else might, and if not.. one could always be programmed from scratch.

good luck! any more questions, just ask.

 

[Trixter]

Hello everyone, i have this really old 8086 only 8-bit isa slots with an green mcga, 640 kb mem or maybe it is 1 MB.

The motherboard is a ITC or something, there is an ide controller do not know the brand in one 8-bit slot. But unfortunatly the original 20 MB hdd gave up longtime ago. Now i have time to start a little project to make the XT tick again.

1. Will the very old ide controller recognise and handle a 10 GB IBM-DTA-351010?

2. Will the controller card recognise a compactflash to ide converter, that i plan to install instead of CD (hope original ide supported two channels). how much space do the cf driver take?

3. I want either an 8-bit or 16-bit isa card that works in 8-bit slot with very "small" memory requirment for driver. Will the AWE64 work in an XT or the the AWE32?

4. Is it possible to get network an ethernetcard connection TCP-ip or slip a computer with 1 MB ram to internet?
Can i get the computer hooked up with my newer computers and somehow get internet connection over some protocol?

5. I think i have a 16 bit ATIMach64 card do the drivers works in 8-bit slot?
Is it just silly and steal memory should i use the onboard CGA instead?

6. What OS to run ELKS, MS-DOS or other dos? CPM?
Can i install bootloaders like grub supporting multiple OS?

Best regards JT

I'll throw in my two cents' worth:

1. No.

2. Yes, if you use something 500MB or smaller (ie. anything up to 340MB IBM Microdrives). 512MB CFs typically do not work (which doesn't make sense since they're technically under the boundaries, but oh well).

3. Your memory requirement statement and your soundcard statement don't go together since ISA soundcards don't require drivers (except maybe for SOUND.COM needed for some very very early Adlib games). Could you rephrase?

4. Yes, you definitely can, with an 8-bit network card (like a 3com 3c509-type card or NE2000) and packet drivers. Google "dos packet drivers" and you should get a ton of hits. If you can't find a network card, you can use a Xircom parallel-port network adapter -- it's slow but it works.

5. While the Mach64 is too new to work, older 16-bit ISA VGA cards usually also work in 8-bit mode. If you can find a very old ATI card you have a good chance of it working even though it is a 16-bit ISA card.

6. It is typically not worth the effort to try to get multi-OS bootloaders running on anything smaller than a 386. That being said, there are many wonderful DOSes to choose from -- you can be 100% legal and run FreeDOS, or you can get a ton of functionality with Caldera OpenDOS 7.03 (sometimes found as DRDOS 7.03) or IBM PC DOS 2000. A little googling should find those for you.

 

[JT64]

I'll throw in my two cents' worth:

1. No.

2. Yes, if you use something 500MB or smaller (ie. anything up to 340MB IBM Microdrives). 512MB CFs typically do not work (which doesn't make sense since they're technically under the boundaries, but oh well).

3. Your memory requirement statement and your soundcard statement don't go together since ISA soundcards don't require drivers (except maybe for SOUND.COM needed for some very very early Adlib games). Could you rephrase?

4. Yes, you definitely can, with an 8-bit network card (like a 3com 3c509-type card or NE2000) and packet drivers. Google "dos packet drivers" and you should get a ton of hits. If you can't find a network card, you can use a Xircom parallel-port network adapter -- it's slow but it works.

5. While the Mach64 is too new to work, older 16-bit ISA VGA cards usually also work in 8-bit mode. If you can find a very old ATI card you have a good chance of it working even though it is a 16-bit ISA card.

6. It is typically not worth the effort to try to get multi-OS bootloaders running on anything smaller than a 386. That being said, there are many wonderful DOSes to choose from -- you can be 100% legal and run FreeDOS, or you can get a ton of functionality with Caldera OpenDOS 7.03 (sometimes found as DRDOS 7.03) or IBM PC DOS 2000. A little googling should find those for you.

3. I am looking for an 8-bit card audiocard with midi, wavetable or rom funtionability. It was nice to hear the actual audio driver do not take space.

So what card is available Adlib an and Soundblaster pro, i was looking for a card with a synth like lapc-1 or scc-1.

I have an external sc-7 (soundcanvas) that will work fine over serial or parallell port. But if you guys have any advice for a cheap card with "midi in" synthesis or wavetable i would try.

Were there any dosbased sequenser, i know cubase for windows was early?
Didn't band in a box have a dos interface?

JT

 

[JT64]

I'll throw in my two cents' worth:

1. No.

2. Yes, if you use something 500MB or smaller (ie. anything up to 340MB IBM Microdrives). 512MB CFs typically do not work (which doesn't make sense since they're technically under the boundaries, but oh well).

3. Your memory requirement statement and your soundcard statement don't go together since ISA soundcards don't require drivers (except maybe for SOUND.COM needed for some very very early Adlib games). Could you rephrase?

4. Yes, you definitely can, with an 8-bit network card (like a 3com 3c509-type card or NE2000) and packet drivers. Google "dos packet drivers" and you should get a ton of hits. If you can't find a network card, you can use a Xircom parallel-port network adapter -- it's slow but it works.

5. While the Mach64 is too new to work, older 16-bit ISA VGA cards usually also work in 8-bit mode. If you can find a very old ATI card you have a good chance of it working even though it is a 16-bit ISA card.

6. It is typically not worth the effort to try to get multi-OS bootloaders running on anything smaller than a 386. That being said, there are many wonderful DOSes to choose from -- you can be 100% legal and run FreeDOS, or you can get a ton of functionality with Caldera OpenDOS 7.03 (sometimes found as DRDOS 7.03) or IBM PC DOS 2000. A little googling should find those for you.

3. I am looking for an 8-bit card audiocard with midi, wavetable or rom funtionability. It was nice to hear the actual audio driver do not take space.

So what card is available Adlib an and Soundblaster pro, i was looking for a card with a synth like lapc-1 or scc-1.

I have an external sc-7 (soundcanvas) that will work fine over serial or parallell port. But if you guys have any advice for a cheap card with "midi in" synthesis or wavetable i would try.

Were there any dosbased sequenser, i know cubase for windows was early?
Didn't band in a box have a dos interface?

JT

 

[Anonymous Coward]

Your IDE controller probably only supports 8-bit XTA IDE drives. I don't know the answer as to whether or not those work with compact flash, but they certainly don't work with modern HDDs or CD-ROM drives. I doubt your card supports very large capacities either.
If you had a special XT IDE controller that supported 16-bit ATA drives, you would be able to run smaller CF cards and ATA drives (less than 512mb), possibly larger with an overlay, but I'm just guessing there. The two best methods for large disk support on an XT currently are SCSI and parallel port (if you don't mind losing the ability to boot from HDD).

I doubt an AWE64 would work on an XT. I am pretty sure SB16 vibras do not work in an XT either. However, the older SB16s do work in an XT somewhat...but MPU401 will not function. There are also some tricks involved to pull it off. The non PNP AWE32s may also work, but I think only as an SB16.

I haven't tried, but I am somewhat certain a Mach64 will indeed work in an XT. I own the ISA version of this card, and I am pretty sure that it still supports 8-bit mode. I can probably test it out and get back to you on that one. Most of the ATi ISA cards will work in an XT.

 

[Trixter]

So what card is available Adlib an and Soundblaster pro, i was looking for a card with a synth like lapc-1 or scc-1.

All of the above will work, but you will be most happy with an SCC-1. Nearly two decades later and it still sounds incredible.

 

[gerrydoire]

Scsi card

Scsi card

Rodime PLC RO650 SCSI Controller Card IBM XT 8-bit ISA

If anyone had information on this card it would be greatly appreciated.

I have it but be damned if I can get any SCSI HDs to work on it.

Thanks!

 

[gerrydoire]

Green mouse

Green mouse

To View Microsoft's First Green Eyed Mouse:

http://www.barfs.biz/greenmouse.jpg

Photo is high res, 3 megs in size.

 

[Jorg]

Maybe you'd better include the picture as a link or resize it a bit, mice of this size scare me..

 

[Ole Juul]

3085781 bytes or about two floppies worth. In fact that mouse is almost exactly 40 times the size of the MS-DOS 3.2 system files. Is that a Vista mouse?

 

[gerrydoire]

Green mouse

Green mouse

The mouse came with Windows 1.0 and was developed by Wang.

It's brand new with very few flaws.

 

[MikeS]

3085781 bytes or about two floppies worth. In fact that mouse is almost exactly 40 times the size of the MS-DOS 3.2 system files. Is that a Vista mouse?

---
LOL! Pregnant and on steroids at that...

Gerrydoire: You may be missing the not-so-subtle point that your image file is WAAAAAAYYYY too big; with dial-up it takes a good 15 to 20 minutes to load, definitely not worth it (esp. if ya have to pay LD charges). Next time, shrink it down to a few K or just post a link to it, or you'll quickly become unpopular...

m

 

[Chuck(G)]

Rodime PLC RO650 SCSI Controller Card IBM XT 8-bit ISA

If anyone had information on this card it would be greatly appreciated.

I have it but be damned if I can get any SCSI HDs to work on it.

Thanks!

It's almost a lead-pipe cinch that Rodime didn't make the controller. How about a photo and an inventory of the LSI chips on it? Some of these old beasts wouldn't work with anything but the manufacturer's own (i.e. Rodime) drives.

 

[BG101]

I want one of those mice :D




BG

 

[JT64]

well first of all, there is NO way you'll get a 10 GB IDE drive on that 8-bit IDE controller. you need an old drive meant for XTs that supports an 8-bit host bus. they are very old now, expensive, and unreliable. i recommend you get a CF-to-IDE adapter for that thing. it needs to be less than 500 MB. i reccommend a 256 MB card for it.

an AWE32 card will not work. the newest creative card that will go in there and work would be an SB Pro version 2 iirc. 16-bit I/O controllers generally work, other than the IDE controllers on them. there are extra pins for a reason, and other than these types of cards 16-bit ISA cards generally won't do anything in an 8-bit slot.

as far as networking in internet, oh absolutely. i run a web server on one of my XT clones. there is a huge variety of older network cards out there that will work just fine in an 8-bit slot. try an NE1000/NE2000 compatible card, a 3c503, intel etherexpress 8/16, xircom parallel adapter, among others.

you'll want to use a packet driver for whatever card you get. there are a variety of DOS internet programs available including a graphical web browser called Arachne. (however, you don't want to use it on an 8088 unless you like waiting 5 minutes for the google home page to load)

i've written quite a bit of DOS internet software myself such as an IRC client, IRC server, HTTP/FTP server, POP/SMTP e-mail client, etc.. let me know if there's something you want for that thing and i've probably written it.

i recommend just running DOS. i recommend caldera DR-DOS 7.03, because it lets me use two 1.44 MB floppy drives via the 16-bit multi-IO card i have in there even though the BIOS doesn't support it. it's very cool. as far as bootloaders, it's possible but i don't know of any written for an original x86 chip that exist. somebody else might, and if not.. one could always be programmed from scratch.

good luck! any more questions, just ask.

I can get hold of 16-bit 3c509, just hope they are configured for 8-bit.
Do you know if it is possible to run the config program on an 8086, because i have no newer machine with ISA slots.

So it can present a problem.

JT

 

[mbbrutman]

Be careful with the 3C509. This is from the 3COM support web site:

http://support.3com.com/infodeli/inotes/techtran/30fa_5ea.htm

Question: Will the 3C509B work in an 8-bit slot in an IBM PS/2 model 30?

Answer: Yes. The 3C509B family needs at least a 286 processor to function, but will work in an 8-bit slot. An original 3C509 will not.​

I would look for the 3C503 instead. It is designed for 8 bit machines. If you see a 3C501, run the other direction as fast as you can - those cards are barely usable because the design of the card is inherently broken.


Mike

 

[per]

http://support.3com.com/infodeli/inotes/techtran/30fa_5ea.htm

Question: Will the 3C509B work in an 8-bit slot in an IBM PS/2 model 30?

Answer: Yes. The 3C509B family needs at least a 286 processor to function, but will work in an 8-bit slot. An original 3C509 will not.​

Is that because of the driver using 286 codes? Isn't it possible to mod the driver to work with only x86 instructions then?
I got a 3C509B-COMBO (all 3 different ethernet connectors), that I'd love to get to work in my XT.

 

[mbbrutman]

Is that because of the driver using 286 codes? Isn't it possible to mod the driver to work with only x86 instructions then?
I got a 3C509B-COMBO (all 3 different ethernet connectors), that I'd love to get to work in my XT.

If you have the source code for the driver and a development environment, then you are modify it. Otherwise, you are dependent upon finding somebody who can. It's just easier to get the right card.

That being said, the open source Crynwr packet drivers would be your best bet if you wanted to modify an existing driver to get rid of 80286 specific instructions.

 

[gerrydoire]

It's almost a lead-pipe cinch that Rodime didn't make the controller. How about a photo and an inventory of the LSI chips on it? Some of these old beasts wouldn't work with anything but the manufacturer's own (i.e. Rodime) drives.

I will post a photo of the card soon as I can.