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MFM Drive issues

Lutiana

Lutiana

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Ok, so I finally got a keyboard for my 5160. I booted it up and it started DOS 3.0 and I was putting around looking to see what was on the drive and I got seek error and had to hard boot the system, this happened 2 or 3 more times.

Now when the system comes up the controller does not seem to detect the hard drive at all, but it sounds like the drive is accessing the data, and the light on the front flashes as if the drive is reading.

So, whats my next step here? Is this recoverable?

Are there any MFM drive diagnostic utilities that I can download and use?

Or is time to scrap the MFM drive and get a 8bit IDE card for the machine?
 
lutiana said:
Ok, so I finally got a keyboard for my 5160. I booted it up and it started DOS 3.0 and I was putting around looking to see what was on the drive and I got seek error and had to hard boot the system, this happened 2 or 3 more times.

Now when the system comes up the controller does not seem to detect the hard drive at all, but it sounds like the drive is accessing the data, and the light on the front flashes as if the drive is reading.

So, whats my next step here? Is this recoverable?

Are there any MFM drive diagnostic utilities that I can download and use?

Or is time to scrap the MFM drive and get a 8bit IDE card for the machine?
Click to expand...

Been there - done that....

You could buy another MFM, but from my experience, 50/50 chance of
another failure.

Time to scrap the MFM drive and get a 8bit IDE!

I bought a Brand New MFM HD, it died in 3 months of casual use.
 
Last edited:
You might want to find an old version of SpinWrite or PCProbe for HD diagnostics.

If you're bent on replacing the drive, then it wouldn't hurt to give it a good sharp rap on the side of the HDA while it's powered up. Sometimes the end stop on these drives gets gummy with age and prevents the head carriage from moving.
 
MFM drives get a bum rap

MFM drives get a bum rap

To work on your MFM drives on a PC, you want SpinRite 5. It's worth a shot, not cheap though.

Otherwise, I am surprised at hearing about a 50% failure rate among drives that only get run for hobby use. I have had two out of twenty or so fail at some point after I had originally had them working. One was bad spindle bearings (an ST-506 - ancient) and the other was a bad controller board (dec RD53 - huge hours). I still have one working ST-506, but it has trouble spinning up (needs a push). Other newer MFM drives, like ST-225, 251s, have worked well for me.

Lou
 
lutiana said:
I have heard of spin rite. Will it run on an 8088? And does it have to be V5, would v6 work?
Click to expand...

Okay, so I found a spinrite 6.0 disk I had lying around, and no it does not run on an 8088 (IBM-5160).

But when I booted it up to test, the controller found the drive and I was able to access it and copy some things off. There was an I2 folder, which is apparently the configuration software for the drive.

But alas the drive started throwing seek errors again. I was able to pull up a directory (took about 30s vs the 5 when I first booted the system). It almost like the head is lost or something.

Should I pop the drive open and check it out? Where these drives equally sensitive to dust as modern hard drives are?
 
lutiana said:
Or is time to scrap the MFM drive and get a 8bit IDE card for the machine?
Click to expand...

Guys on this forum seem to have done great things in developing this kind of card. It it was me, I'd probably explore this option. Not XT authentic, but those old MFM drives do seem to be the cause of a lot of grief!

Tez
 
lutiana said:
Okay, so I found a spinrite 6.0 disk I had lying around, and no it does not run on an 8088 (IBM-5160).

But when I booted it up to test, the controller found the drive and I was able to access it and copy some things off. There was an I2 folder, which is apparently the configuration software for the drive.

But alas the drive started throwing seek errors again. I was able to pull up a directory (took about 30s vs the 5 when I first booted the system). It almost like the head is lost or something.

Should I pop the drive open and check it out? Where these drives equally sensitive to dust as modern hard drives are?
Click to expand...

You could always take the controller and MFM hdd and put it in a newer machine (Pentium 1 , 2 or 3 with ISA slots) and run spinrite from there.

Just remember to disable the built-in IDE controller(s) first before you connect the MFM controller.

Also, What type is the MFM hdd? FH or HH?
 
Hey there.

My at/xt keyboard just came in yesterday as well and I realized that my hard drive was no good as well. Had a little fun putting together a program in ROM BASIC, but I'll probably get a couple cheap MFM drives I think I can get a hold of for now (any MFM card works with most MFM drives, or am I wrong with that?) but the 8-bit IDE sounds very interesting. Last I checked, that project wasn't quite complete yet, though, and the existing cards are way too expensive.
 
sqpat said:
any MFM card works with most MFM drives, or am I wrong with that?
Click to expand...

Depends on the controller. Some contollers was made for a spesiffic drive, but there are some flexible ones (like the ones by WD). However make sure you know the jumper settings of the controller you're using.
 
per said:
Depends on the controller. Some contollers was made for a spesiffic drive, but there are some flexible ones (like the ones by WD). However make sure you know the jumper settings of the controller you're using.
Click to expand...

I have an IBM one that originally came with the XT. Do you know if that one is pretty flexible as well? Would it at least work with a 30 MB IBM brand PC/AT MFM hard drive? Or is there a whole different set of compatibility issues there (i don't think it's full height, for one)

Probably wouldnt be a bad idea to get a hold of a WD one as well I guess. IIRC, they are pretty cheap.
 
sqpat said:
I have an IBM one that originally came with the XT. Do you know if that one is pretty flexible as well? Would it at least work with a 30 MB IBM brand PC/AT MFM hard drive? Or is there a whole different set of compatibility issues there
Click to expand...
The 'original' one (the one without switches) is designed for MFM drives that have 306 cylinders, 4 heads and a WPC of 128.

If you were to connect, for example, an IBM 0665 (30MB, having 733 cylinders, 5 heads and a WPC of 300), then low level format the drive, then you'd discover
that only 306 cylinders and 4 heads of your IBM 0665 were being utilised (33% of drive capacity).

And so if you want to realise the full capacity of your hard drive, you need to find a controller that supports the drive.

Later hard disk controllers for the PC and XT support multiple drive types. An example. The Longshine LCS-6210C (details at http://stason.org/TULARC/pc/hard-di...OSYSTEM-INC-Two-ST-506-412-MFM-drive-200.html) supports 12 different drive types.

Some later hard disk controllers for the PC and XT are even more flexible in that they are 'auto-configure'. The Transteque HC-100 is an example. When it's low-format program is activated, it asks you for the cylinder/head count and WPC of the drive. It stores that information on the drive and uses it each time the computer boots.

sqpat said:
(i don't think it's full height, for one)
Click to expand...
The physical dimensions of the drive have no influence on controller choice.
 
So I finally got around to opening up my 5160 to check out the hard drive issue. I was going to pop the cover and power it on to see what the heads were doing to cause the seek issues, but I never got that far since it is now fixed.

I am not sure what fixed it, it was one of three possible things that fixed it.

1. The smaller of the two cables was off a little on the back of the drive. Possibly due to the case being slid on.
2. The same cable was not entirely on the pins from the controller
3. I gave the top of the drive a pretty hard tap to see if it was a jammed head.

Running HD test I was able to get it to pass all the tests (except the XT compatibility test). I ran the random seek test on it about 4 or 5 times in a row, and scanned for bad blocks (found none).

I then low level formatted it, create a partition, and using DOS 5 was able to format it and make it bootable. So far so good.

Time will tell if this is a permanent fix or not.

Incidentally, the drive is obviously not stock, as it is made by a company I have never heard of. The controller is also not the "standard" WD controller either. I'll post more details tonight when I get home, I'll also grab a picture or two of the top of the drive.
 
I am surprised to hear about the unreliability of MFM drives, I have customers that are still running ST-251-0 and -1's for years now, without issue. And I have a 80meg that was once in my AT that still works fine. I have had issues with the orginal RLL drives, lots of them. I strongly prefer MFM over RLL anyday.

I think the ST225 in my XT just needs to be low level formatted, nothing major. I may swap the controler for a WD, since I have one NIB at home. And a 251 now that I think about it.... of course finding them might be harder then installing them. :)

As far as waiting on the XT-IDE...well, I'd rather be up and running.

Cheers!
 
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