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Collecting: Classics versus oddities

T

tezza

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If you collect old computers, what do you focus on? Like me, is it popular classic computers which a lot of people knew about and/or had a significant impact, or is it old rarities, oddities and orphaned machines hardly anyone has ever heard of? Or maybe a combination of both?

I was thinking about this the other day, prompted by the NEC APC post and the recent shed load of old iron that appeared on our Trade Me site here in NZ. If I was to show off my machines at some point, they might be of interest to the general public at large, as some will remember using them or hearing about them, or you could weave stories about their significance in the display itself.

However, if I had a collection of rare, eccentric and odd machines, the general public would probably not be interested. Furthermore, I’d need to be far more skilled at electronics than I am now, just to keep them going as there might not be much information and/or software out there.

BUT…fellow vintage computer enthusiasts would probably LOVE to see these old machines. The main attraction would be BECAUSE they were odd and different. As a vintage computer enthusiast myself, I’d be FAR more interested in seeing a collection of rarities than the “classic” collection I have myself, all of which are quite familiar.

I see some neat old gear on our auction site from time to time. Usually no-one bids. They probably get biffed out. I don’t bid due to the room and skills issue mentioned above. I wish I did have the room and the skills. If so I’d probably snap them up. I think it’s these computers that are in danger of disappearing entirely rather than the classics.

Any comments?

Tez
 
As a vintage computer enthusiast myself, I’d be FAR more interested in seeing a collection of rarities than the “classic” collection . . .
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I'm with you. The oddities are more interesting.
. . . if I had a collection of rare, eccentric and odd machines, the general public would probably not be interested.
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Unfortunately we live in a culture that reveres the common place. Even older people are afraid to be different in these times. Hopefully, it's just a phase we're going through. :)
I think it’s these computers that are in danger of disappearing entirely rather than the classics.
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Yes. It's ironic, but a lot of history actually gets covered up (binned?) by people who love it the most.

Perhaps in some ways, the "odd or different" computers actually define the history better than the common place. They show the breath, and not just the straight line development of the field. We tend to have a love of time lines because they simplify understanding, but that is probably not a very effective way to understand development - unless you want a simple understanding. :p
 
I collect what I want to use, generally that would be more common machines that had plenty of cards and software.

Oddities are not my specialty, but I do get into some niche areas like old video capture/editing hardware and scientific software. I also like to collect tape/removable drives.

For example some people would pay a mint for a Commodore 65 prototype, I wouldn't because there isn't anything I can run on it. A C64 might be as common as dirt, but there is a huge software library available for it. I would rather have all the fun Atari 2600 games to play then the rarest of the rarest 2600 game cart in a box.
 
I love the oddities most.

Where the designers have stuck their neck out rather than following the trend is evolution. When it works, others follow, when it doesn't it's still contributed as a way not to do things (for now - we now have laserdisks again, just smaller).
And quite often it's purely been down to marketing (VHS/Betamax/V2000 (although now probably too outdated an argument!))

There are quite a few classics that WERE oddities when they came out.

Oddities have their worth, or maybe it's just down to empathy!
 
Often oddities are machines already inferior in their time, companies building a new computer based on yesteryear's technology or sometimes even yesterdecade.. The big drawback focusing on oddities is that documentation, software and user groups are much smaller or sometimes non-existent. As soon as you really want to use it for something, you have to figure most out of it yourself. Sometimes you happen to know which other, more common computer is remotely related to yours so you can make educated guesses based on that.

Tezza is correct about interest from the public vs other collectors. If you arrange a vintage computer meet open for the public, they will mostly flock around the well known systems they remember and has plenty of hardware/software to showcase. Those of us who bring an oddball we manage to power on but has nothing else to display are usually neglected. Perhaps if the odd computer has a pleasing exterior it will make people look. Fellow collectors usually have little time to stop and examine your cool stuff, so it would be better to invite those to your home and spend a whole evening dedicated to the oddballs.
 
I'm in both corners...

I like the classics that everybody had and/or talked about when I was young. So these have quite an appeal to me. I like the nostalgia surrounding them, people have memories of them and the time they had one of those.

But then I really like the oddball computers that didn't make much of an impact on the mainstream computing. Computers that people nowadays haven't even heard about. It's a interesting and maybe even important bit of technological history, and I try to preserve some of it.

When I did my exhibit I picked out mostly well known makes and models, like the C64, the ZX Spectrum or the ABC 80. To top it off I picked some more odd machines like the Matra Alice, SX-64 or Jupiter Ace.

That way the visitors could get some nostalgia from the ones they once had and they would see some unbeknown oldies that might interest them. And then I would get a chance to tell a bit about the machines :)
 
Most importantly when doing that kind of exhibition is to tell the story of a highly heterogeneous industry, a time where no manufacturer or concept really had become fully dominant. A time when some brands were bigger and did better than others, but certain companies and investors would believe there still was room for one more independent player. A time when it was a strength to have some compatibility with others, not taken for granted all computers would basically be the same but with small differences which required custom support/drivers.

It is a bit like taking care of endangered species. I'm sure the world wouldn't collapse if we lost a few species of butterflies, but as long as they still are around we find it valuable to keep them alive.
 
Me, if i could collect, i'd like the more common ones, though i'd still get a couple rare/odd ones if they showed up... basically i'm like "if it's vintage, it's mine :p"
 
carlsson said:
Most importantly when doing that kind of exhibition is to tell the story of a highly heterogeneous industry, a time where no manufacturer or concept really had become fully dominant. A time when some brands were bigger and did better than others, but certain companies and investors would believe there still was room for one more independent player. A time when it was a strength to have some compatibility with others, not taken for granted all computers would basically be the same but with small differences which required custom support/drivers.
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For sure! I've been reading early 80s back copies of Infoworld on the web from a link someone here posted a few weeks ago. There are many exotic and unusual machines I've never heard of! Before IBMs huge foot came down the market was a jungle of biodiversity!..and that was just the US, let alone what was happening in other places.

Tez
 
I initially started my collecting with the computers I remember wanting but couldn't afford at the time. Osborne, Kaypro, IBM PC and XT and then started branching out. Next were computers with the various Intel processors so I got a 286, 386, 486, Pentium 1 and then Pentium Pro. Name brands were also high on the list and included a sequence of models from Tandy/Radio Shack, Hewlett Packard, IBM and Heath/Zenith.
Along the way I ran across some oddities that were very intriguing but couldn't find any information on them and no software to boot them. I tend to shy away from those machines. I think a lot of us have machines that are "boat anchors". They just sit on display with no software for them, or had hardware problems and can't find schematics or service manuals to fix them.

I saw this one of these on eBay awhile back, but decided against bidding on it for the above reasons. Could find any resources.

http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?st=1&c=1078
 
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I'm a bit of both but even then some systems that are rare and several folks here gawk over I hadn't heard of myself. It's difficult to find those rarities sometimes but yeah they can get glazed over while reading lists sometimes which is a shame. Also the weight though becomes a pain to keep these things alive as well. I mean even if I find an offer for a free pdp it'd take a few hundred to ship it.

For the general collection/public aspect I think you want your common systems to get everyone talking and reminiscing. Then you can slip the other rarities in there but I think for public attention it's more of the popularity game.

For me I (well ok I don't always follow my own advice) tend to collect historically significant systems. So I do like having the ones that changed the scene or had a breakthrough to watch the evolution of systems. The tough part is getting some of the "firsts" and then the trouble of having alleged firsts ("first laptop = ??") but it's still fun and I grab what I enjoy and sometimes I just nab something I haven't seen before because of the cheap price and curiosity.

Just recently I grabbed a portable TI system I wasn't familiar with. It's the Texas Instruments Portable Professional Computer. I recently found it's counterpart (the desktop but only the desktop) and thought it was kinda neat. So on one side, it's a neat one-off, certainly TI's first portable system albeit not groundbreaking in any way that I could see and it's not x86 compatible. So I have a proprietary machine with no software but it's still interesting and in Texas a bit of local history.
 
My collection habit seems to be focused on normal systems with unusual components (multi-card video or strange removable drives). Boring, I know, but I like systems that work easily and are very cheap.

I try to check for any truly exotic smaller system. A poor quality S-100 or IBM PC semi-compatible in a dull case is something I will skip. Semi-compatible meaning that poor design prevents many expansion cards or other components from working with it. Bulgarian portable PDP-11: YES!; Packard Bell: not so much.
 
I am focused mostly on a single brandname, as evidenced by my username. Typically common enough of systems, but some configurations can be unusual or even rare. My interests are preserving and documenting, but sometimes slight hotrodding and/or keeping pace (very similiar to what Mike does with the PCjr) takes over.
 
I started with a plan to focus (just to find the machines I had actually used), but quickly found I had too much fun discovering the diversity that I missed out on at the time.

Now I just collect anything and everything - storage, time, and $ being the usual limiting factors. I just hope my skills develop to keep up with the oddballs and broken artifacts that I encounter. Already my skills at storage have improved markedly over the last year.
 
I'm with Tezza on this. I have all the IBM classics as well as PS/2 MCAs from a fixation for a time, and includes most Commodores, Amigas, R-Ss, and Ataris. But my affection goes out to those computers which are a bit outside the mainstream. Like the Zenith ZFA-161, an XT luggable with pop-up floppies, a planar motherboard, and an easily accessable monitor program to check the components and configure it. I value it more than the long-abandoned IBM and Compaq luggables. Some other XTs and ATs outside the mainsteam also have my affection. The names wouldn't be recognized. The Grid 15xx laptops with the RUGGed magnesium cases and red plasma display are a fixation and the Compaq Lunchbox with the red plasma display intrigues me just for that reason.

One of my favorite Handhelds is the Sharp 3000(sometimes called the Atari Portfolio 2). I keep an HP Omnibook mainly because it has an easy interface for th remarkable HPLX95. Another favoriter is the Dauphin DTR, an amazing touch-screen notebook, which I thirsted after for years, as well as the Portfolio because I was an ST freak. The Mega ST was one of my must-haves even tho the STE surpassed my earlier ST wants and I still don't have one. The DEC Rainbow, with a color monitor, was another of my desires. I've never been disappointed with this multi-OS machine. The CoCo3 with it's OS9 capabilities intrigues me more than it's gaming possibilities The Commodore 128 DLC was beyond my wishes at the time but now I have one. The Next Color Station and Mono Next are also part of this pantheon. I have a bunch of Apples and Macs but a tarted up Apple-Plus and similarly tarted up Mac 512 are the ones I value. A Power-PC 7300AV which I sometimes use to watch TV and Video is on my mainline usage, also because of it's entry to MAC audio programs.

At times I wonder whether my affiliation with computer collecting isn't just a cover for these somewhat oddball machines which piqued my imagination. The IBM line (except for the one with Intel Inboard) and other mainstream computers are there for credentials but I could easily part with, including the Kaypros, Osborne 1, Commodores, Amigas, Ataris, etc.

Most of the MSDos machines were boringly similiar in their HD contents. A copy of Lotus 123, WordPerfect or Word, perhaps Harvard Graphics, accounting programs, Norton Commander or some such shell program, an antivirus and common utilities, and perhaps a few games. Now and then you'd also find some imagineative programs, a looked-for rarity.

Lawrence
 
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