IBM AT scarcity

[offensive_Jerk]

Is it just me, or do the IBM AT's seem to be a lot more scarce than the PCs and XTs?

Everytime I look on EPay, I never see any. Parts here and there, but hard to find a whole system. Of course local scouring is not really an option.

 

[fred3rd]

Hard to say, I have 2 AT's in the cellar but no XT's.

 

[gerrydoire]

Is it just me, or do the IBM AT's seem to be a lot more scarce than the PCs and XTs?

Everytime I look on EPay, I never see any. Parts here and there, but hard to find a whole system. Of course local scouring is not really an option.

I agree, I've been waiting for a nice AT to come along, nothing but parts or AT's in crude shape.

 

[Fallo]

Is it just me, or do the IBM AT's seem to be a lot more scarce than the PCs and XTs?

You're right; IBM sold a lot fewer ATs than 5150s and XTs. The AT was very expensive (up to $6000) and an XT could run almost all software available at the time.

 

[Druid6900]

Six grand? Hell, when they first came out, you couldn't even get a standardly equipped clone for only $6,000. Try twice that with a comparable clone coming in at about 8 grand.

 

[Chuck(G)]

I think that by the time the 5170 came out, the clones probably had the upper hand.

Even while IBM was selling 6MHz 5170s, the clones were peddling 8MHz boxes using commodity 256K DRAM. To their credit, IBM did come out with a "type 2" 8MHz 5170.

Specs and sample for the 80286 were available long before the 5170, so the cloners had plenty of lead time. They had the mechanics of cloning BIOSes down; they were prepared.

Some early clones even let you use your PC XT keyboard. It wasn't long before the peripherals (e.g. serial, parallel, etc.) were being integrated on the planar.

This is one contest where I'd definitely award first prize to the clones.

 

[tezza]

I think that by the time the 5170 came out, the clones probably had the upper hand.

Certainly this was the case in New Zealand. I'm lucky I managed to get an AT here at all. New Zealand was awash in fast XT clones by the time the AT came out. Clone ATs probably arrived here before IBM got the genuine article to NZ and those clones were faster and half the price.

Tez

 

[billdeg]

The AT product cycle was cut short by the PS/2 and undercut by the XT 286. Most AT's were sold to businesses. So yes, this is the rarest of the IBM systems, about on par with the original 5150 16/64 systems.
bd

 

[strollin]

5170 ATs are easier to come by than the 5162 XT-286s. I have 2 8Mhz ATs and a 6Mhz AT mobo in my collection but can't seem to get a 5162 XT-286 to round out my collection.

 

[IBMMuseum]

I must be the odd one out, because I have a dozen complete ATs (and two XT 286s)...

And most of the ATs were free, because I had the seller of a few PS/2 95s start to load my vehicle to take them off his hands...

But I know to hold on to them...

 

[Chuck(G)]

Now that I think about it, I've probably sat in front of fewer than a dozen genuine 5170s. Customers usually had clones, and there was a robust business upgrading XT (and clone XT) boxes with the "Baby AT" motherboards, rather than replacing the whole shebang.

Ergonomically, the 5170 left a lot to be desired. A big box, with space for only 2 half-height internal floppies. Even though the clones had come out with hinged-top easy-access XT cases, the 5170 still used the awkward slide-on top.

The PS/2 marked a return to ergonomic sanity on the part of IBM.

 

[paul]

For some reason the company I worked for in San Diego mid 80's had a roomful of ATs in the software development group. When they moved to Sun workstations some of the ATs landed in my lap where we used them for AutoCAD, and of course a few eventually made it home. One of the SW guys was so attached to his AT that used it for years as a dumb terminal off the Sun network - and with a CGA monitor!

I tried to give away a perfect example of a type 1 AT in 2004 and ended up driving it up to LA just to give it a good home - a forum member here if I recall.

 

[tezza]

Ergonomically, the 5170 left a lot to be desired. A big box, with space for only 2 half-height internal floppies. Even though the clones had come out with hinged-top easy-access XT cases, the 5170 still used the awkward slide-on top.

Not to mention the WEIGHT. Man, that machine is heavy.

Tez

 

[Raven]

Not to mention the WEIGHT. Man, that machine is heavy.

Tez

I have a Mitsuba and a Zenith that are both modeled off of the IBM AT, the Mitsuba moreso - they're a pain to open and a pain to close, but they're huge inside. They both have 4 5.25" bays though, with only two accessible to the outside, unfortunately. I like those boxes. One's a 286 (backplane based) and one's a 386.

 

[Fallo]

The AT product cycle was cut short by the PS/2 and undercut by the XT 286. Most AT's were sold to businesses. So yes, this is the rarest of the IBM systems, about on par with the original 5150 16/64 systems.

IIRC, the AT did continue into the PS/2 era for a while, and later models had 1.44MB floppies, VGA, and 101-key keyboards. However, you're correct that it was primarily a business machine, being well above the price range of home users (for whom even XTs were expensive). And as I said in my earlier post, there wasn't much of any software at the time that required a 286.

Of all the IBM machines of the period, the only ones I've never encountered in person are the XT 286, 5155, and 5140.

 

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm pretty sure that the AT only continued into the PS/2 era in european countries. It wasn't offered with VGA or 1.44mb floppies in north america.

 

[billdeg]

My IBM PC Rarity List

My IBM PC Rarity List

When I think about it I agree, the XT 286 is probably rarer than the AT.

Here is my list of rarest personal computing machines that I have seen in magazine advertisements within Byte, etc. I am not considering things like functionality or condition, or whether the unit comes with the original boxes, display and so on.

Ranging 1976-1986, rarest first.,

IBM S9000 (xt for science with built-in printer - I have an ad for this)
IBM 5100 (and related portable models are all rare)
IBM PC 5150 16/64
IBM XT 5160 286
IBM AT 5170
IBM 5140 laptop
IBM 5155 portable
IBM PC 5150 64/256
IBM XT 5160
IBM PC Jr

These are all pre PS/2

 

[Chuck(G)]

IBM S9000 (xt for science with built-in printer - I have an ad for this)

Bill, are you sure you're not thinking of the CS9000 lab computer?. (Not to be confused with the ES/9000 mainframes).

I remember when this came out, shortly before the 5150. It had a bunch of us wondering if IBM would surprise us all and the 5150 was going to be a 68000-based machine like the CS9000.

Sadly, the 5150 turned out to be a big letdown. The CS9000 shipped with 128K and could be expanded to a staggering 5MB and options for hard disks and extra floppies. In contrast, the 5150 shipped with between 16 and 64K, no hard disk option and a slow (even for the time) 4.77MHz 8088.

In truth, the 5150 turned out to be a more-or-less dumbed-down DisplayWriter.

 

[billdeg]

yes the lab computer. I call it the S9000, and it's not the mainframe.

Edit - but not sure we're talking about the same systems. What I am talking about came out with the XT class, not before the 5150. I have a Byte describing the XT and the S9000 systems as XT versions. I guess I need to dig up the article.
bd

 

[Chuck(G)]

Edit - but not sure we're talking about the same systems. What I am talking about came out with the XT class, not before the 5150. I have a Byte describing the XT and the S9000 systems as XT versions. I guess I need to dig up the article.
bd

I'd be interested to see anything about an x86-based S9000 system--it would seem to be a step down from the CS9000. Perhaps a cost-reduced alternative?

Just think of how IBM using the 68K CPU for the 5150 would have changed the landscape of what we think of as the PC. Apple might have been reduced to a clone maker.