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Anybody here have a BIOS ROM flasher?

R

Raven

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I !@%@'d up - again. Almost every time I flash a BIOS things turn out bad.

Anyway here's the story.

I got this neat little Book PC with a Socket 370 and a Celeron 600mhz in it. I wanted to put a Pentium III 1ghz in it. I found a BIOS update that said it added support for new Celerons and Coppermine processors. I did extensive research to verify that this was the correct bios update, that the P3 I wanted to use was indeed a coppermine, etc. (I had already tried it and it wouldn't boot, by the way)

I flashed the BIOS, and it went fine. It booted up, and in a few seconds the keyboard froze - refusing to take input. I rebooted, and it froze input again. I rebooted again and attempted to run the BIOS flasher to restore the backup. After a few more tries and lucky timing, I got the program to run. I typed in old.bin, the name I had backed up the BIOS to, and it started chugging away at rewriting the bios. The machine totally froze halfway through. I prayed that it would boot up with half of one BIOS and half of another, they were only a few months apart so it was feasible... no. The machine is now bricked. My eternal bad luck rears it's ugly head in the name of a slightly faster processor.

So I thought for a while - perhaps if I could flash it without the computer being involved it would be fixable. So I ask - can anyone here flash an Award BIOS? It's socketed, so I could remove it and mail it off if you can, along with a floppy or CD with the BIOS backup on it.

Please? Anybody?
 
It depends on the EPROM/EEPROM type. If you can get a model number off it, I'm sure someone here can help. I've got an EPROM/EEPROM programmer, and would be glad to burn a chip for you for S&H, if my programmer supports it.
 
I had a brilliant idea that unfortunately hasn't gone anywhere. I was going to boot up another machine with the same BIOS chip type and flash the machine's bios onto that one, then pull the chip and put it in the machine itself - my only machine I can find with the right chip though won't boot.

Anywho - the chip is as such:

AWARD (c) 1998
PCI/PNP 686
221810210

And since I'm well aware that that covers an Intel flashable chip, I peeled the sticker up and underneath it says:

Intel
N82802AB
U9180563
(m)(c)'96'98

I have a Pentium Pro board that I was willing to sacrifice that has a chip of the same form factor (different model though) and it errored saying it's the wrong part - bah. I was so close.

Can someone flash these?

Oh, and while we're on the subject, the motherboard that my main machine (core 2 duo) used until more recently was shelved due to a bad bios flash too. Perhaps someone could fix that for me? That'd be brilliant, as my new MicroATX board sucks balls due to the lack of overclocking and expansion slots (much more stable though, I admit). That one is an ASUS P5B-E, if someone has the stuff to do it I'll go pull part numbers and such from the board downstairs.

linuxlove said:
Will those Willem Programmers do flash chips too? Just wondering, sorry for thread hi-jacking ;)
Click to expand...

According to the Internet (http://www.edaboard.com/ftopic138076.html), yes.

Edit:

Is it possible for me to pry the BIOS out of the PPro after it has booted and replace it with the chip in question, or is that a very, very bad idea? :p

Edit2: I love knowing you guys are here for me when things like this pop up, because otherwise I'd have _NO_ access to an EEPROM/EPROM programmer or the knowledge to know that it's possible. :D I really appreciate it.
 
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Hot-swapping BIOS chips?

Hot-swapping BIOS chips?

Raven said:
I had a brilliant idea that unfortunately hasn't gone anywhere. I was going to boot up another machine with the same BIOS chip type and flash the machine's bios onto that one, then pull the chip and put it in the machine itself - my only machine I can find with the right chip though won't boot.
Click to expand...

I know of a similar trick to revive mis-flashed motherboards. Start up another computer of which the motherboard has the same kind of BIOS chip, and once booted in DOS, pull out that motherboard's BIOS chip, but in the BIOS chip that was not flashed right, flash that one, shut down the computer, put it's original BIOS back and put the newly flashed BIOS chip in its motherboard, which should now be working again.

Of course, the biggest chance of success is if the other motherboard used to flash the chip is of the same model as the motherboard that you are trying to revive, since the flash software might otherwise refuse to run on a foreign motherboard.

Also, I have no idea what the risk is of hot-swapping BIOS chips. Do so at your own risk!
 
Ironically I happened to ask that above - lol.

The Pentium Pro has the same physical formfactor of BIOS chip, so I suppose I could try that if nobody has the right programmer for this - otherwise that's a bit more foolproof - however, the PPro motherboard has a different model of chip, so I'm not sure if the BIOS flasher will recognize the new one or what after doing that.
 
digger said:
I know of a similar trick to revive mis-flashed motherboards. Start up another computer of which the motherboard has the same kind of BIOS chip, and once booted in DOS, pull out that motherboard's BIOS chip, but in the BIOS chip that was not flashed right, flash that one, shut down the computer, put it's original BIOS back and put the newly flashed BIOS chip in its motherboard, which should now be working again.
Click to expand...
This will work if BIOS is shadowed. DOS does make all manner of BIOS calls, if BIOS isn't shadowed the system will take a dump when you yank the FLASH chip.
 
That's what I figured - I was just worried it wouldn't work electrically to swap while running. I'll try the ppro board again this way and maybe find another box with that chip.
 
There's also a trick used a lot on Tivos that should work with your board. I've also heard of two-socket adapters that plug into your motherboard socket--boot from one PROM, then switch to and flash the other one. Same idea as the Tivo gizmo.
 
Chuck(G) said:
There's also a trick used a lot on Tivos that should work with your board. I've also heard of two-socket adapters that plug into your motherboard socket--boot from one PROM, then switch to and flash the other one. Same idea as the Tivo gizmo.
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Neat trick! Gotta love the "prom-piggy" name too (although I think piggy-PROM sounds better ;-) )
 
I had a mobo that used that officially, it was called "Top-Hat Flash" on there. Anywho that only would work with a BIOS that was functional in the first place. Does anyone have a programmer for these or what? I've been messing with various boards for 24 hours or so now and haven't had any luck.

Edit: These (http://www.mcumall.com/comersus/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=3199) will do it, but I'd rather not shell out $45 to use the programmer once in the near future when I'm so short on cash just to fix a computer I got for $5. So if anybody has a programmer, please contact me - I'll pay shipping, and even some extra if you want, that's not a problem..
 
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dorkbert said:
This will work if BIOS is shadowed. DOS does make all manner of BIOS calls, if BIOS isn't shadowed the system will take a dump when you yank the FLASH chip.
Click to expand...

Excellent point. I hadn't even thought of that. Without a the BIOS being shadowed, the processor would run into nothing but "FF FF FF FF FF" at the first next BIOS interrupt call. Oops... :blush:

But don't pretty much all motherboards since the Pentium generation copy the BIOS to shadow RAM, for performance reasons?
 
From first-hand experience today, I've found that a shadowed BIOS doesn't always shadow 100% of the BIOS. The keyboard calls, in particular, seem to still go through the BIOS and the keyboard simply stops responding once you pull the chip that it booted from. :/
 
digger said:
Excellent point. I hadn't even thought of that. Without a the BIOS being shadowed, the processor would run into nothing but "FF FF FF FF FF" at the first next BIOS interrupt call. Oops... :blush:

But don't pretty much all motherboards since the Pentium generation copy the BIOS to shadow RAM, for performance reasons?
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Truth is that when you yank the BIOS chip out of its socket, you're glitching the address and data bus. With some luck it'll live. Though myself I would just shell out the money and buy a programmer; comes in handy on and off anyways...
 
The Enhanced Willem (check eBay for best prices) is probably the cheapest way to reflash a N82802AB FWH. Any other way will require an adapter to a conventional PROM programmer.
 
I took your advice and checked eBay - bought an Enhanced Willem - slightly different than the one I linked to but it supports the chip all the same. The standard old-fashioned BIOS chip socket will likely come in handy too - I can fix old boards with that perhaps, and back up an archive of BIOSes for the large number of boards I have.
 
By the way, it's so frustrating that most EPROM programmers still only come with software for Windows. No Linux, no Mac OS X. Except for the DIY ones, but those are parallel port only, often limited, and only as reliable as its creator is proficient at soldering... :(

Why is that? You'd think that of all possible customers, especially technical hardware engineers and experienced hobbyists (exactly the kind of people who would buy programmers) often require support for non-Windows operating systems.

I had already opened a topic about this some months ago: http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?18435-Need-advice-buying-an-EPROM-programmer

Unfortunately, I still haven't been able to find a professional (non-DIY) programmer with support for Linux and Mac OS, let alone one with a (high speed) USB interface. :(

And also: why don't those Willem programmers support GALs? Is there a specific reason for that?
 
digger said:
By the way, it's so frustrating that most EPROM programmers still only come with software for Windows. No Linux, no Mac OS X. Except for the DIY ones, but those are parallel port only, often limited, and only as reliable as its creator is proficient at soldering... :(
<snip>
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Considering that you're not going to use it every day, is this a big problem considering that you can boot pretty well any OS from CD or USB these days, not to mention VMs and emulators?

Or you could just come over to the dark side...
 
MikeS said:
Considering that you're not going to use it every day, is this a big problem considering that you can boot pretty well any OS from CD or USB these days, not to mention VMs and emulators?

Or you could just come over to the dark side...
Click to expand...

It's a combination of principle, practicality, and choice. Since most programmers have industry standard interfaces (mostly either Centronics or USB), it should be possible to use them with any (sufficiently fast) computer that is equipped with said interfaces, as long as it is running a fairly common OS. Why should I have to boot a different operating system just so I can use that device? The late 90s and early 00s are over, darn it: both Linux and Mac OS X are pretty much mainstream operating systems these days! We have interface and protocol standards for a reason.

And don't even get me started on "planned obsolescence"!
 
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