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IBM 5150 and 5161 DOS setup configurations

bettablue

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Alright everyone. I'm finally getting ready to complete the final assembly of the PC WITH the expansion unit. Everything in the PC is currently working perfectly fine. The expansion unit contains an Intel LAN adapter, modem, Xebec hard drive controller and Miniscribe 11 Meg hard disk drive. So there really isn't a lot of hardware to configure.

What I'm running into is a lack of resources on things like a driver for my IBM 5152 graphics printer and the LAN adapter. Once I have the drivers, I want to configure a set of DOS installation diskettes for DOS 6.22 or DOS 7.0, with both autoexec.bat and config.sys files.

I have the program tool required to get the hard drive set up formatted, and finally ready to install whatever version of DOS I choose. I just need some help with setting up the configuration files and the autoexec.bat so that everything loads properly when I boot from the hard disk.

I'll do the work. I just need to know where to get started. Again, Google has not been very kind in my searches.

Thanks much.

This is the final push to get everything working with the expansion. The system is almost done, so I'm hoping that this will finally be the end of this particular build.
 
Well CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT are optional, your printer wont need any drivers, just the LAN card - what network were you going to connect to?

On my 5160 those files are almost completely empty. Without upper memory I avoid loading almost anything on startup haha.

Would recommend an older version of DOS to save disk space unless you are going to use the DOS 6 boot menu feature.
 
Well CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT are optional, your printer wont need any drivers, just the LAN card - what network were you going to connect to?

On my 5160 those files are almost completely empty. Without upper memory I avoid loading almost anything on startup haha.

Would recommend an older version of DOS to save disk space unless you are going to use the DOS 6 boot menu feature.

Ah, there's the rub. Now it looks like I have three questions instead of just one.

I was under the impression that the printer needed a driver. What do I need to do, to get the printer working on one of the LPT ports that are installed. Currently, I believe it's installed on LPT1.

I'll be installing DOS and it's configuration files onto the 11 Meg Miniscribe hard disk which is installed into the IBM5161 expansion unit. So, there will be plenty of room for the primary command.com from pretty much any version of DOS. I can suppliment the command.com with the rest of the commands and executables as I see a need for them. That will save some space too.

I guess the big question is simply this, What do I need to get my system running? What do I need to include in my autoexec.bat and config.sys files? I know I have to run the hard disk utility to low level format the disk, then F-Disk, then format all before installing DOS. Do I have to make a bootable floppy diskette with the hard disk configurations before installing DOS? Then what needs to happen to make the computer boot from the hard disk?

I'm not too worried about the LAN adapter or modem. I really want to get the hard disk loaded with DOS, and have my prinmary system working. You can see the systems specs here:
http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?29718-My-IBM-5150-so-far

As for the network, I'll be connecting it to my primary network using a wired connection to my Router which is also directly wired to my Windows 7 computer. I have a seperate folder on the Windows 7 machine that contains all of my programs, DOS maintenance tools, and about 6500 DOS games. A lot of these games will not work with lesser versions of DOS, which is why I want to install the latest version of DOS possible.

There is probably more I'm not thinking about, so your impressions and ideas are greatly appreciated. Am I also overthinking this too, like I've done every other step of the way?

TIA.
 
You're not talking about just writing the autoexec.bat and config.sys files are you? To my twisted thinking you first need to design a file structure using a logic that suits you. Then you can do the rest.

My preference is for clean and simple. YMMV My C:\ drive only has two directories and the autoexec.bat and config.sys files are hidden and read only. The directory looks like this:
Code:
 Volume in drive C is ANA-C
 Volume Serial Number is 5F9B-C40D
 Directory of C:\

PATH     EDC         7,866 04-05-12  12:14a
SYS          <DIR>         10-08-11   4:38a
TMP          <DIR>         10-08-11   4:38a
        3 file(s)          7,866 bytes
                     525,672,448 bytes free
C:\ $

Of course that's a larger machine, but I use the same kind of structure on vintage stuff. The TMP is just that, but the SYS directory is all the system files. Here is the tree:
Code:
C:\ $tree
Directory PATH listing for Volume ANA-C
Volume Serial Number is 5F9B-C40D
C:.
----SYS
-    ---- ANA
- -        ----NOHD
- -        ----ANATEMP
-    ----0
-    ----1
-    ----2
-    ----F
-    ----MS
- -     ----ARC
-    ----CFG
- -       ----BOOT
- -       ----WATTCP
- -       ----MTCP
----TMP

The directories named 0, 1, and 2, are all the utilities which are likely to be used on the system, or deemed to currently be useful. On an XT it is probably adequate to just use the SYS directory and skip the subs. On a true vintage machine running, say 2.1, I would include all the files in one /OS directory. The MS directory contains the MS-DOS 6.22 files which are to be in the path and the ARC subdirectory of that is all the other MS utilities and things which I don't want to see (which is most of it). The CFG directory is where I keep configurations such as the WATTCP and mTCP ones (with old ones and a bit of related stuff). The BOOT directory is where COMMAND.COM resides and several levels of autoexec.bat and config.sys are backed up. Every time I edit these files, they are automatically backed up so I can go back a couple of levels if I want. It's just easier (and more relaxing) that way.

Now, the one I haven't mentioned yet, is the C:\SYS\F directory. That is the heart of the machine. That is where I put all my BAT files on which my personal interface depends. One of the first ones that I write is one called SF.BAT. Typing "sf" gets me to that directory so I can add more .BAT files quickly. I do that whenever I need to have a program starter. For example running LYNX requires that DHCP gets started and stopped as well as just running the executable. Most are extremely simple with under 5 lines, but some are more complex, like the AE and CE (autoexec.bat edit, config.sys edit) commands which need to change attributes on the way in and on the way out, as well as rename and delete the backups and so on. I also add sounds to most of my bats so I can tell if they've started or completed. This allows me to not have to waste my eyes on looking on the screen all the time and makes it easy to concentrate on the real task at hand which is generally more mind oriented than a visual exercise. Anyway, this directory currently has about 80 commands but is always growing. The thing is that I've got a naming system and I write them myself so I am likely to remember. If I don't, the I just type "df" and have a look by subsequently typing "dm".

All programs go on the D: drive, and data and other projects go on other drives. However, on a small machine I would probably just use a D: drive. Here is mine:
Code:
 Volume in drive D is ANA-D
 Volume Serial Number is 5D9C-88AF
 Directory of D:\

TEXT         <DIR>         10-08-11   4:46a
LANG         <DIR>         10-08-11   4:46a
COMP         <DIR>         10-08-11   4:46a
INFO         <DIR>         10-08-11   4:46a
PROG         <DIR>         10-08-11   4:46a
SCRN         <DIR>         10-08-11   4:46a
COMM         <DIR>         10-08-11   4:46a
        7 file(s)              0 bytes
                     378,052,608 bytes free
D:\ $

I won't bother with the tree for that since it is extensive and irrelevant. Needless to say both these drives have lots of stuff in them. It is just arranged in a neat and logical order. Partial CHKDSK output:
Code:
C:\
122,880 bytes in 15 directories
8,437,760 bytes in 361 user files

D:\
1,949,696 bytes in 236 directories
154,320,896 bytes in 2,568 user files

When all that is decided upon, then it is obvious that the path needs to be set only to a few directories on the system (C: ) drive. The other thing which needs to be set is the environment. That is when you need to think about your DOS configuration files. One trick is that you put environmental variables such as your prompt, substitutions (if any), and SET, at the end of your autoexec.bat after all the TSRs or whatever, so that they don't get loaded multiple times.

So, there's some of my philosophy on how to set up a DOS box. YMMV :)
 
No driver is needed. To print text you just print to LPT1: which sends text direct to the port and the printer will know what to do.
For applications with graphics most will have an IBM Graphics Printer driver built in (almost all DOS apps with graphics should support that printer).

Your method of DOS installation sounds quite good.

On your Xebec card is a ROM, this contains the drive configuration and the boot facility for your IBM. Also on this ROM is a low level format utility but there isn't a 'Press F1' keystroke to get in - you have to use debug to execute code from a specific memory location (fun!). If I remember correctly you got your drive and controller as a working pair?? If so then it'll already be configured for your hard drive (NB: any configuration options will be jumper selectable depending on what revision card you have).

You should probably try and boot and just see what condition the hard drive is in - e.g. it might already be bootable.

You don't need anything in CONFIG.SYS or AUTOEXEC.BAT to boot. The files are optional. On my XT all I have is below, stuff in brackets isn't in the files of course.

CONFIG.SYS:
FILES=40

AUTOEXEC.BAT:
@ECHO OFF (dont repeat everything)
PROMPT $P$G ( C:\DOS> is nicer than C> )
PATH=C:\DOS (after install that is)
VER (print DOS version, its pretty)

You could also add a line for a clock card if you have one, or add "DATE" and "TIME" so you can set it each boot.

When you setup your network more lines will be added by the install program, but it sounds like you're going to need MS Lan Manager or MS Client - but I was unable to get either of these to work properly with Windows 7 shares. I also found that LanManager sucks way too much memory (at least in TCP/IP mode, didn't try NetBEUI). All reasons I just left the XT network free. Hopefully some others have better network advice :)

For my 286/386/486 machines I setup a Windows 2000 Server as a domain controller with WINS etc made things a lot easier.

To get data on/off my old girl, I use a null modem cable and FastLynx 2, but I have a pair of 20Mb drives in it, so I guess networking will be quite important for you with only 10.
 
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You just need run a ftp server on the win7 box, packet driver and the dos ftp client and transfer files that way. "Home FTP Server" should do the trick. It's very simple to set up.
 
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You just need run a ftp server on the win7 box, packet driver and the dos ftp client and transfer files that way. "Home PC Server" should do the trick. It's very simple to set up.

In general I would take that approach too, however I thought the 5161 took care of storage in this setup.
 
No driver is needed. To print text you just print to LPT1: which sends text direct to the port and the printer will know what to do.
For applications with graphics most will have an IBM Graphics Printer driver built in (almost all DOS apps with graphics should support that printer).

Expanding on that a little:

For your IBM 5152, the following will suffice as a simple test:

C:\>echo hello >lpt1
C:\>echo ^L >lpt1 (where the "^L" is a Ctrl-L key combination that generates a formfeed character)(must be an upper case L)

Expect the 5152 to print "hello".

Certain DOS programs, such as WordPerfect need to do 'fancy' things such as bold, underline, font selection, graphics. Those DOS programs use printer drivers, drivers that are unique to the program. So for example, the HP Laserjet III printer driver for WordPerfect 5.1 is the file C:\WP51\HPLASIII.PRS That driver file is only 'understood' by WordPerfect. Hardvard Graphics will have its own printer driver for the HP Laserjet III.

The IBM 5152 is a rebadged Epson MX-80, and so if you encounter a program that has printer drivers, but the IBM 5152 is not listed, then select 'Epson MX-80'.
 
<snip>

All reasons I just left the XT network free. Hopefully some others have better network advice :)

<snip>


For an XT? mTCP using the FTP client or FTP server. It's actually *designed* for this vintage of hardware, so it will run well.

If somebody needs a network drive letter then you have to go with an MS or Novell solution. But if you can accept doing "copies" over the network using FTP, then mTCP is the way to go.

(Yes, I'm tooting the horn here. But PCs, XTs, and Jrs are exactly what mTCP was designed for. And you can bet that if it runs fast on that hardware, it screams on newer hardware.)
 
Adding my $0.02 into the mix... I'm with Spidersweb - your autoexec.bat and config.sys will most likely be nearly empty on a PC/XT. On mine, I do load ansi.com (an ansi.sys derivative that takes up < 2k RAM vs the 4k RAM that ansi.sys takes). Mainly because I like to be able to change prompt colors sometimes when I get bored.

Also, Modem7's spot-on with the printer driver. With DOS, there's no such thing as a printer driver so far as the OS is concerned (that wasn't introduced until Windows). You don't even NEED a printer driver with your application software like 1-2-3, Word Perfect, or DBase... unless you want to take advantage of those programs' ability to mark up the text with bold, underline, italics, alternate fonts, etc. In that case, you would just go to the Printer setup within the program and select either the 5152 or MX-80 as your printer... done! (also for applications, as my needs weren't for huge databases, etc, I personally love Microsoft Works v1.05 or v3.00, as it has a nice pseudo-wysiwyg word processor, spreadsheet, and database functionality all in one system - and I never dealt with spreadsheets or databases that it couldn't handle, as I never used them in an enterprise environment. To me, 1-2-3 and D-Base were for enterprise environments... Works was more than adequate for small business and home environments)

Also, I like Mike's idea and implementation of using FTP for transferring files back and forth over the network, mainly as it saves you the headache of having to run an intermediary controller (CalUser2000) or worry about whether or not your Win7 machine can see your XT, or vice-versa. With FTP, you start the server on the fileshare machine, you start the client on the XT, and you go. The only thing to make sure of is that you have the proper holes punched in your firewalls to allow the server access through them.
 
Thanks for all of the info again everyone. I'll be reconnecting the printer to test out the command and let you all know what happened with the printer. As using the LAN adapter, FTP sounds like the best option for accessing the programs I have stored on my Windows 7 computer. With that, I may not need the Compaq I built a little while ago. All it's currently used for is to write floppy disks, so once the PC is connected to the network and can access the shared directories, I can use the IBM to write it's own floppy disks.

I'll be passing all of this on to my best friend who is helping me with this stage of the build. In fact he has helped configure all of the upgrades so far. We're actually going to try to have the system up and operating by Next week, so cross your fingers.

One more question though. I have an extra 384K memory board. Can I use that in the expansion unit to act as UMB and the Himem.sys? Or do I need to add more to the PC in order to access the additional memory? I was thinking that if I could load a few minor things like the LAN adapter driver, and the autoexec and config.sys in UMB, I could keep most of the primary memory free for programs. I think I'm getting way over my head on this one though, but I thought I would ask just in case.

For what it's worth, I love MS Works for DOS. I have a copy of it that I run occasionally for the word processor, but even it's spreadsheet is pretty amazing when you look at how much the program wants in system resources as compared to the Office products, or even MS Word alone; which I also have)

I've added some photos of the inside of the 5150 to my thread in the Collections forums. The final assembly took a bit of work, and it was quite painful because of the broken leg thing, buyt I was finally able to get the monitor out of the way, install the extender card, connect the expansion unit to the PC and put it all back togeether. I still have to wait for my wife to come home so I can get her to dig out mu surge protector. Right now I don't have enough places to plug in the entire system. And I found a major flaw in my setup. The power switch on the expansion unit is too low for me to reach easily. So, I may have to take the system completely down again, and stack the PC and the expansion unit. Too bad too; I like this setup, but it won't work when it's time to boot. More pics to come after I rework the setup again.
 
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OK, I thought I saw something where someone had done that with an XT computer. But when I went back, he did start off by replacing the 8088 with a V20? or something like that. Then he had to swap out some other chips in the system. After reading the post, it looks like more of a PITA than it was worth.

Thanks stone for confirming that for me.
 
And I found a major flaw in my setup. The power switch on the expansion unit is too low for me to reach easily. So, I may have to take the system completely down again, and stack the PC and the expansion unit. Too bad too; I like this setup, but it won't work when it's time to boot. More pics to come after I rework the setup again.

Don't let that stop you. Remember the old "System Saver" pieces that RatShack sold back in the day that would allow you to selectively power off your monitor/printer/computer with its switch rather than with the computer switches? - Those babies were made to act as the "switch" for computer systems! Why not run something similar here with your UPS? Keep your 5151/5161 switches to "on," and use the UPS to power the systems off and on - with the front toggle switches that most UPS's have, you should be able to click it with your toe :) - and you can manually toggle the switches on the monitor and printer as needed if you don't want to keep them powered on all the time.

Anyone else know of any reason why this wouldn't be a good idea? (I know it was common back in the day, and I've never specifically read anything against doing such a thing w/ vintage electronics that are regularly used, but figured it would be worth gathering opinions)
 
I can't see any actual problem doing that, you're just switching the mains voltage at a different location.
I'd probably just leave everything 'ON' and use the power switch at the wall.

I'd expect the 5161 will be ready before the 5150 tries to initialise it when powered up at the exact same time.
 
Anyone else know of any reason why this wouldn't be a good idea? (I know it was common back in the day, and I've never specifically read anything against doing such a thing w/ vintage electronics that are regularly used, but figured it would be worth gathering opinions)

Those are fine. There's lots of options and I know that BB would like a nice retro look. An aluminum box would look cool with some heavy duty toggle switches in a row with some nice big indicator lamps. This is not a big project and mostly just screws together, and it would look very "techie". The simplest would be to only have one switch for the unit which is hard to reach. However, power bars are an OK way to go too. :)
 
Those are fine. There's lots of options and I know that BB would like a nice retro look. An aluminum box would look cool with some heavy duty toggle switches[/URL] in a row with some nice big indicator lamps.
Those power centers used to be really common and I'm surprised you don't see more of them these days of always-on printers etc. and our eco-guilt. Probably what Maverick is talking about above, a pizza box with a row of illuminated switches that usually sat (and still sits in my case) under the monitor, sometimes even with a swivel base built in.
 
Those power centers used to be really common and I'm surprised you don't see more of them these days of always-on printers etc. and our eco-guilt. Probably what Maverick is talking about above, a pizza box with a row of illuminated switches that usually sat (and still sits in my case) under the monitor, sometimes even with a swivel base built in.

OK, That sounds way too cool! I like all of the suggestions from Mav, ole and Mike. I think that out of all of these, I like Ole's idea the most, although a "pizza box" as Mike puts it sounds great too. Maybe a combination of the two. You're right, the wiring would be simple. Same for mounting switches. Lighted switches would be my choice, but with this particular desk, I think I would go for something that would either be just big enough to set the monitor on top of, or maybe a small "Project box" that would sit to the side of the monitor to the rear of the desk top. That would be good for either left or right handers.

All I know for sure is that with the main PC and the expansion unit stacked, the monitor is definitely too high. With a power switch setup like what we're talking about, there would be enough freedom to move BOTH to the bottom of the portable desk. Which would make it much more stable when moving around. There are definitely a lot more possibilities.

I need to start putting together a parts list.

I don't like the idea of using one of those power bars, but for now, I think that is going to be my best option. At least till I can put together something else.

Nice ideas my friends.

BTW Ole, you seem to know me a little too well. Why is that? LOL!
 
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