IBM 5150 and 5161 DOS setup configurations

[SpidersWeb]

ehehe yeah if you keep any DOS version under '5' make sure to install a text editor



** edit - although I shouldn't be mean to EDLIN, after all I do use 'vi'

 

[Ole Juul]

ehehe yeah if you keep any DOS version under '5' make sure to install a text editor

** edit - although I shouldn't be mean to EDLIN, after all I do use 'vi'

In fact always install a text editor first thing after an OS install. Any OS.

I only used EDLIN for a few months until I learnt that the vendor provided utilities were pants. Still, it is venerable, AND it can reportedly run from a script so you can automatically edit multiple files at once. Now that's not a trick that many newer editors can do.

 

[Stone]

I definitely want to upgrade DOS on the IBM. With version 3.3, there are a lot of games in my collection I can't play. At the bare minumum, those will require DOS 6.22, so I'm actually looking for a copy I can buy through E-Bay or something.

I don't see how any game that can be played on a true IBM PC could possibly require DOS 6.22. Any game that *might* require DOS 6.22 would be so painfully slow on that machine that you wouldn't even want to play it. I would say that 3.3 or 5.0 is plenty for that machine.

 

[vwestlife]

I don't see how any game that can be played on a true IBM PC could possibly require DOS 6.22. Any game that *might* require DOS 6.22 would be so painfully slow on that machine that you wouldn't even want to play it. I would say that 3.3 or 5.0 is plenty for that machine.

AFAIK, except for the programs that came with MS-DOS 6.x itself, there are no DOS programs which require DOS 6.x. After all, the DOS built into Windows NT, XP, 7, etc. is the equivalent of MS-DOS 5.0, so any DOS program written in the past 15 years or so which is able to run in Windows can't require anything higher than 5.0.

 

[Maverick1978]

I'm with Stone and vwestlife; any and every single game I ran across, even in the DOS 5.0/6.0 era, had DOS 3.3 as a minimum requirement. Now this didn't mean that one could run every single facet and option of the game(s) under DOS 3.3 as one could under, say, 6.0 - but the games would run. With minimum configuration (i.e. base graphics, only PC Speaker sounds, and probably requiring a clean boot to do so in strapped systems. And there was no chance that many of these would even approach playable on anything less than a higher-end 286)

Historically and realistically, the games that are going to run at their best on a 5150/5160 were released during the lifespan of those systems, and maybe up to and including the majority of the 5170 era, as game designers wouldn't have wanted to alienate people with older machines.

With that said, there are a number of games released during this era that are barely playable on a PC/XT - and they were intended for those machines! George Broussard's Arctic Adventure, published by Apogee, comes to mind here. It's a GREAT little platform game on a 286 and higher, but on an 8088 with the IBM CGA adapter, the screen refreshes between levels and the speed during the game makes it feel laggy; the game just crawls. I keep meaning to test it on my Model 25 with an 8mhz 8086 processor, and also in my XT with a NEC v20 replacing the 8088. I suspect that the game will run at perfectly acceptable levels on these systems.

 

[Dave Farquhar]

On 8088 and 8086-based machines, there was no benefit to going beyond DOS 3.3. The two things that running DOS 5 or DOS 6 gained you were better memory management and better included utilities. The 8088 and 8086 couldn't benefit from the memory management, and the bigger footprint actually meant you had less available memory after the system was booted. And there are third-party utilities that run under DOS 3.3 that are nicer than what came with DOS 5/DOS 6 anyway.

I agree with the others that any software that requires DOS 5 or 6 is likely to be far too slow to be usable on an 8088. You'll be much happier running those titles on a 386.

 

[Chuck(G)]

From my own personal recollections, DOS 3.2/3.3 was a big improvement over DOS 2.1--it added a fair amount of functionality to the system calls. The next version, 4.01 (4.0 was a disaster) was useful because it enabled larger hard disk partitions. 5.0 was the first retail version of MS-DOS and had some interesting utilities. And 6.22 was the last gasp of "regular DOS".

I have other oddball versions, such as 2.0, 3.0, etc.--but they all had "gotchas" that were remedied by subsequent interim upgrades, so they're only in my library for archival purposes.

I used 3.3 for a very long time. 4.01 almost not at all because I didn't trust it. I used 5.0 for quite a time, before buying 6.0 and then upgrading it to 6.22.

In my library of self-extracting boot disks on my XP machine, I have 6.22 and DOS 7 from Win95B to handle FAT32 volumes (I also load DOSLFN). That's pretty much it today--and I still use DOS quite a bit.

 

[Ole Juul]

From my own personal recollections, DOS 3.2/3.3 was a big improvement over DOS 2.1--it added a fair amount of functionality to the system calls.

You would certainly know much better than I, but wouldn't the games that were written before 3.2/3.3 run perfectly well without the functionality that came in the years after? I'm assuming that any games that came out after, say '86, would be considered historically inappropriate for this machine, but perhaps I'm alone in this view.

 

[Stone]

Not only would they be historically inappropriate but more importantly they would run so dog-slow (if they'd even run at all) that you might be tempted to toss the machine out the window. I mean let's face it... a PC didn't/doesn't do anything very fast.

 

[bettablue]

I went back to review this thread because of some of the recommendations you have all made. Indeed, there are some things I wanted to run from DOS 6.22, that wouldn't run on version 3.3. When I attempt to run them after bringing them over through floppy, I get a meesage that this program cannot be run under this version of DOS. DOS 6.0 is required. This happened on several programs/commands I pulled from a DOS 6 directory.

I am also very curious about the possibility of using a DOS shell program. I asked about one a while back from Packard Bell titled 'DOS Manager' or something similar. I opted to not do that at the time because running from a floppy disk meant that for the most part, I would end up having to load at least 2 floppy diskettes before the computer was useable. However, now that the system is bootable from the hard disk, I have a lot more flexability. Windows 1.0 comes to mind too.

I don't need to run the shell during the every normal \statup , but I would like to access it to help organize my extensive list programs into catagories like Productivity, System Tools, and Games. Packard Bell's DOS Manager would allow the use of shortcuts to programs and folers, so that's one reason I like that shell program. Later, if I modify my config.sys and autoexec files, at leastI have options. Are there any other shell programs you would recommend, and why?

From what it looks like, this may be just one way to easilly access the thousands of programs I have. Keep in mind, I'm definitely NOT going to drag the entire collection over to my "D" drive. The PC and expansion don't have that much storage. All together, with the C and D drives, I'll only have a total of 40 Megs. However;if I can get everything set up properly, and I do mean everything including my LAN adapter and some sort of FTP program, I can access the shared folders on my Windows 7 computer; and get to my complete software library through the network. Now THAT would be AWESOME!!!

 

[SpidersWeb]

Sounds like you have a DOS 6.0 folder and are using a DOS 6.22 boot disk?? Versions must match.

My favourite menu system, which I use on my 5160, is Direct Access 5.1. It's larger than most DOS menu's but it's very quick and easy to setup and looks nice.
If you're changing the installed programs all the time it might be a waste of disk space tho

Favourite file manager/tree navigator would have to be XTree Gold by a long shot.

There is a LOT you can do with XtreeGold, tonnes of functions, can take a while to learn your favourite keys but once you do you'll never be without it again.
Will do everything from recursive deleting (PRUNE) to moving sections of directory trees (GRAFT) to formatting disks to editing text files etc.
PM me if you need install disks. 6 x 360Kb but you can save heaps of space by not installing graphics file viewers etc etc.

p.s. Windows 1 was a wee bit poop, but it is fun to look at if you haven't used it before.

 

[Stone]

I've got a very nice, boxed, Direct Access v5.0 if anybody's interested.

 

[bettablue]

Thanks Ole.. I see that we both like to do things pretty much the same way.

I'll be doing pretty much the same thing. On my "C" drive, I'll have my BOOT plus directories for my DOS tools and TSRs etc. My "D" drive is where all the good stuff will reside; productivity apps, like word processing, spreadsheet, checkbooking, and a bunch of games.

The biggest concern I have right now is in setting up that Intel LAN adapter. I have posted pics of it here before, but this is the first time I'm including a pic of the modem. The thing is, the LAN adapter and modem are supposed to be real easy to find drivers and software for, yet, these two pieces are proving to be more trouble than anyone lets on. I have downloaded some packet drivers for what is supposed to be the 8/16 bit adapter, but when I go into the documentation, I find that it's for a completely different OS, or just not the correct hardware. I keep running into the same thing with the modem... Besides the new hard disk and a dual serial port card, these are the final pieces that need to be configured in the expansion unit. I have checked and so far, there arent any IRQ conflicts, so they should be quite simple to get working. Yet, I have had this LAN adapter for months and I still can't get it, or the modem working.

Alsso, one last item to mention. I want to get some recommendations on software to use the LAN adapter and modem with. I was thinking of using an FTP program with some sort of GUI to access programs and data on my primary computer. As far as the modem is concerned, I'll be using it to connect to BBS services, so whatever software you recommend would need to be somewhat user friendly.

Can someone please help me locate the correct drivers and software for these two pieces of hardware? I hope the pics help.

You're not talking about just writing the autoexec.bat and config.sys files are you? To my twisted thinking you first need to design a file structure using a logic that suits you. Then you can do the rest.

My preference is for clean and simple. YMMV My C:\ drive only has two directories and the autoexec.bat and config.sys files are hidden and read only. The directory looks like this:

 Volume in drive C is ANA-C
 Volume Serial Number is 5F9B-C40D
 Directory of C:\

PATH     EDC         7,866 04-05-12  12:14a
SYS          <DIR>         10-08-11   4:38a
TMP          <DIR>         10-08-11   4:38a
        3 file(s)          7,866 bytes
                     525,672,448 bytes free
C:\ $

Of course that's a larger machine, but I use the same kind of structure on vintage stuff. The TMP is just that, but the SYS directory is all the system files. Here is the tree:

C:\ $tree
Directory PATH listing for Volume ANA-C
Volume Serial Number is 5F9B-C40D
C:.
----SYS
-    ---- ANA
- -        ----NOHD
- -        ----ANATEMP
-    ----0
-    ----1
-    ----2
-    ----F
-    ----MS
- -     ----ARC
-    ----CFG
- -       ----BOOT
- -       ----WATTCP
- -       ----MTCP
----TMP

The directories named 0, 1, and 2, are all the utilities which are likely to be used on the system, or deemed to currently be useful. On an XT it is probably adequate to just use the SYS directory and skip the subs. On a true vintage machine running, say 2.1, I would include all the files in one /OS directory. The MS directory contains the MS-DOS 6.22 files which are to be in the path and the ARC subdirectory of that is all the other MS utilities and things which I don't want to see (which is most of it). The CFG directory is where I keep configurations such as the WATTCP and mTCP ones (with old ones and a bit of related stuff). The BOOT directory is where COMMAND.COM resides and several levels of autoexec.bat and config.sys are backed up. Every time I edit these files, they are automatically backed up so I can go back a couple of levels if I want. It's just easier (and more relaxing) that way.

Now, the one I haven't mentioned yet, is the C:\SYS\F directory. That is the heart of the machine. That is where I put all my BAT files on which my personal interface depends. One of the first ones that I write is one called SF.BAT. Typing "sf" gets me to that directory so I can add more .BAT files quickly. I do that whenever I need to have a program starter. For example running LYNX requires that DHCP gets started and stopped as well as just running the executable. Most are extremely simple with under 5 lines, but some are more complex, like the AE and CE (autoexec.bat edit, config.sys edit) commands which need to change attributes on the way in and on the way out, as well as rename and delete the backups and so on. I also add sounds to most of my bats so I can tell if they've started or completed. This allows me to not have to waste my eyes on looking on the screen all the time and makes it easy to concentrate on the real task at hand which is generally more mind oriented than a visual exercise. Anyway, this directory currently has about 80 commands but is always growing. The thing is that I've got a naming system and I write them myself so I am likely to remember. If I don't, the I just type "df" and have a look by subsequently typing "dm".

All programs go on the D: drive, and data and other projects go on other drives. However, on a small machine I would probably just use a D: drive. Here is mine:

 Volume in drive D is ANA-D
 Volume Serial Number is 5D9C-88AF
 Directory of D:\

TEXT         <DIR>         10-08-11   4:46a
LANG         <DIR>         10-08-11   4:46a
COMP         <DIR>         10-08-11   4:46a
INFO         <DIR>         10-08-11   4:46a
PROG         <DIR>         10-08-11   4:46a
SCRN         <DIR>         10-08-11   4:46a
COMM         <DIR>         10-08-11   4:46a
        7 file(s)              0 bytes
                     378,052,608 bytes free
D:\ $

I won't bother with the tree for that since it is extensive and irrelevant. Needless to say both these drives have lots of stuff in them. It is just arranged in a neat and logical order. Partial CHKDSK output:

C:\
122,880 bytes in 15 directories
8,437,760 bytes in 361 user files

D:\
1,949,696 bytes in 236 directories
154,320,896 bytes in 2,568 user files

When all that is decided upon, then it is obvious that the path needs to be set only to a few directories on the system (C: ) drive. The other thing which needs to be set is the environment. That is when you need to think about your DOS configuration files. One trick is that you put environmental variables such as your prompt, substitutions (if any), and SET, at the end of your autoexec.bat after all the TSRs or whatever, so that they don't get loaded multiple times.

So, there's some of my philosophy on how to set up a DOS box. YMMV

 

[Ole Juul]

The biggest concern I have right now is in setting up that Intel LAN adapter. I have posted pics of it here before, but this is the first time I'm including a pic of the modem. The thing is, the LAN adapter and modem are supposed to be real easy to find drivers and software for, yet, these two pieces are proving to be more trouble than anyone lets on. I have downloaded some packet drivers for what is supposed to be the 8/16 bit adapter, but when I go into the documentation, I find that it's for a completely different OS, or just not the correct hardware. I keep running into the same thing with the modem... Besides the new hard disk and a dual serial port card, these are the final pieces that need to be configured in the expansion unit. I have checked and so far, there arent any IRQ conflicts, so they should be quite simple to get working. Yet, I have had this LAN adapter for months and I still can't get it, or the modem working.

Also, one last item to mention. I want to get some recommendations on software to use the LAN adapter and modem with. I was thinking of using an FTP program with some sort of GUI to access programs and data on my primary computer. As far as the modem is concerned, I'll be using it to connect to BBS services, so whatever software you recommend would need to be somewhat user friendly.

Can someone please help me locate the correct drivers and software for these two pieces of hardware? I hope the pics help.

That's an odd NIC in my experience, but if people are recommending it and not posting the drivers then I'd say they're talking through their hats. It's just polite to post drivers when needed. IMO Yes, I've looked in my collection.

Software for networking. Use Wattcp or mTCP or both. You know where to find the latter, but for Wattcp, pull my string and I'll send you a collection.

Now for the modem. Driver? Driver? Modems do NOT need drivers. If your modem is not working then it is probably broken. Unless, of course there a conflict. To make sure, you are aware that DOS labels the first comport as "1" simply because it is the first, and irregardless of what you have set. That can screw you around. To avoid that problem, set your IRQs starting with "1". You probably have this, but the numbering goes like this:

COM    ADDR     IRQ
 1     03F8      4
 2     02F8      3
 3     03E8      4
 4     02E8      3

The addresses probably match, but watch the other stuff. A great program is LYNC, which is very small, but not period. It is great for testing though. For general testing there are two things you need to do. First check your IRQs. This is most easily done using debug.

debug
d 40:0
q

That will display a string with the ports written backwards. Like this:

0040:0000 F8 03 F8 02 E8 03 E8 02-

Explanation:
0040:0000 Location Address Byte and Offset
F8 03 inverted is COM1 03F8h
F8 02 inverted is COM2 02F8h
E8 03 inverted is COM3 03E8h
E8 02 inverted is COM4 02E8h

Now the other useful test for modems is to send it something. If you still aren't sure what port, just try them all. If you ask it to go off hook, then it will be obvious when you hit the right one. It will also show that the modem works. Type this:

echo ata >com1

Then try com2 etc. When you hit it, it will make a noise.

Like I say, modems don't use drivers. You talk directly to them. However, to talk to them and get results on the screen will require a comprog. Lync 3.2 is here for you. For accurate vintage there are not a lot of choices for your machine. If you want exactly 1983, I've got SMODEM, 1RD, PCTALK, and KERMIT. Let me know.

Edit: I have the slightly newer Intel driver. I don't know if it's backward compatible. It is for the the PCLA82xxB and I also have the SOFTSET program that might work with that. If you can't get any older driver, give this a try. It's a 12K single executable called EPROPKT.COM.

One thing that I have found confusing about drivers is that they often come as a huge (HUGE!) collection of stuff that has no real world purpose for a DOS user, and you have to look through different directories to find the tiny file that is all you need.

 

[bettablue]

What do y'all think about this one?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/datagard500...-/230752651626?pt=PCA_UPS&hash=item35b9ee096a

It definitely looks like it has enough switching ability.

If you think this one will do the job properly, I'm planning on popping a bid on it tonight.

Betta, these are common devices. I'd suggest waiting. Besides, that white one that was relisted won't match the look of your PC anyways. I'd suggest this one or this one. (I did a search for computer power center)

More vintage looking, and as I remember, the color scheme of the casing was made to match the look of the PCs. And, I can tell you, this one is much sturdier than the radio shack one like mine - I don't know that I'd trust a monitor sitting on mine, which is why it's not in use currently.

 

[Stone]

It's only got four power outlets. Is that enough for you? The two Maverick linked had five. I know you've got printer, puter, monitor and expansion case. That's four. If you've got anything else there's no place for it.