Vintage computers that are still in (indespensible) daily use

[33black]

found this article, dont know if anyone else had seen or posted it before, but it was pretty interesting, and kinda makes me want to acquire a PDP.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2499...nt_fix_it_ancient_computers_in_use_today.html

 

[Ole Juul]

The use of midis by the US govt is interesting but I must say, that IBM 402 with key-punch-machine takes the cake. Nevertheless as discussed here many times, there's lots of PC to 386 era units still used in industry. I suspect there's also a lot of old business still running Lotus 1-2-3 because it's good software and by now they know it inside out.

What is sad is the reason that this article was published. It hints at our culture's general ignorance of computers and what they do.

 

[NeXT]

We have people out here who still run weaving machines on IIe systems.
they don't still use them because they can't afford to upgrade. In the textile industry a weave run by a IIe is still kind of modern. There really isn't that much else that has changed in the last 30 years.

 

[Druid6900]

I think the oldest computer that I have repaired for a company that has it still in use was a Tandy Model 4 for a sign making company in Wisconsin.

The second oldest was a pre-Seimens PC-104 rackmount A-D/D-A unit for a company that makes plastic bags in West Virginia. (That was a bitch to find parts for). It was a 286 based unit.

 

[Chuck(G)]

There are lots of very old systems still plugging away embedded in industrial machinery; e.g. embroidery machines, CNC gear, even ATE equipment and security devices. I wonder if there are still some PBXs out there with vintage systems in the guts. The military probably uses quite a few for airframe maintenance.

Anyone know what's in nuclear power plants? They've always been very very conservative because of the long permitting process for new equipment. Given that the US hasn't built one in over 30 years, there might be some interesting stuff there.

 

[Caluser2000]

At work there is a propellor balancer that uses an XT class gear with 720k fdd, as well as a Compaq 268 for running diagnosic software via specific serial interface for testing certain aircraft nav gear. I provided the spare 720k disks the first and a generic VGA card for the second. The guys using them seemed quite greatful.

Both work perfectly for their intended tasks.

 

[twolazy]

I still know of a junkyard by me their whole print setup is based on a heavily modified XT running novell netware 2.x using some really REALLY old QMS laser printers. ROFL. Everytime I Go there I tell them I can upgrade their setup, and the price be recouped in 6 months easily in power usage. Meh...

 

[Ole Juul]

I still know of a junkyard by me their whole print setup is based on a heavily modified XT running novell netware 2.x using some really REALLY old QMS laser printers. ROFL. Everytime I Go there I tell them I can upgrade their setup, and the price be recouped in 6 months easily in power usage. Meh...

Hmm, the XT will run 50 watts and if they don't turn it off that's $40 per year. If it's only on for an 8 hour shift and down weekends, then we're talking more like $10 per year. I don't know what the printer will idle at, but again they might turn it off for long periods, like at night. A modern computer would not use much (if any) less. They easily pay $2000 per year for electricity and, depending on the extra equipment they might operate, several times that. At 4 bucks for a decent cup of coffee these days, your argument probably doesn't impress them. Not only that, but a newer computer would be rather unimpressive compared to what they have. The prestige alone is worth twice the cost of the juice.

 

[Chuck(G)]

I still know of a junkyard by me their whole print setup is based on a heavily modified XT running novell netware 2.x using some really REALLY old QMS laser printers. ROFL. Everytime I Go there I tell them I can upgrade their setup, and the price be recouped in 6 months easily in power usage. Meh...

...and their current system works. I'm sure they're thinking "if it isn't broken, don't fix it." That's a hard argument to get past.

 

[Maverick1978]

...and their current system works. I'm sure they're thinking "if it isn't broken, don't fix it." That's a hard argument to get past.

Words I live by... laugh. People always ask me about what new PC they should by, etc,etc,etc... my first question is always "Why do you need a new one?" followed by "What do you intend to use it for?" - most people don't realize that a 10yr old PC will get them on the Internet for email and general web usage (read: FARMVILLE) quite nicely.

FWIW, I enjoyed the article, and though the incredulous slant of the speaker was annoying, I fully realize that this article was written for the average layman, not someone that works with tech enough to be able to puzzle out for themselves that such antiquated equipment is still in active use in many aspects of manufacturing and government.

 

[Atari26003]

I simply love to see that old machines are still in use. I didn't really think that was even true until last year when I was at work. The break room had a 386 machine in it, needless to say when it was finally replaced due to a new gift I gave it a home.

Regarding these PDP systems I am hearing about, That is simply crazy!!! the only thing I have to bring up and I hate to be a downer is.... Does that mean they'll never have those parts when finally replaced go into public hands? They seem to have a tight stick about electronics now.

 

[Chuckster_in_Jax]

...and their current system works. I'm sure they're thinking "if it isn't broken, don't fix it." That's a hard argument to get past.

Actually, that is an easy one to get by.

The bigger question is:
If this piece of equipment fails, how will that impact our production. Especially if the manufacturer no longer supports the equipment and parts are rare or unavailable.
Will it cause our production line to go down? How much profit would we lose? If we can't deliver our products on time, will we lose customers?

I was in a position a few years ago where one of my duties was to repair electronic instrumentation for a lab in chemical manufacturing. Down time was critical so we didn't have the luxury of waiting days to find parts or paying outrageous prices for used parts(anybody ever seen overpriced parts?). Those questions I listed above were always the deciding factor in upgrading to newer equipment.
An obsolete computer that could be replaced at a cost of say $10,000 could easily result in $100,000 or more in lost revenue if it failed.

 

[ProfessorK]

Words I live by... laugh. People always ask me about what new PC they should by, etc,etc,etc... my first question is always "Why do you need a new one?" followed by "What do you intend to use it for?" - most people don't realize that a 10yr old PC will get them on the Internet for email and general web usage (read: FARMVILLE) quite nicely.

This is the code I have been living by for years. I used an IBM Thinkpad 600x (450 mhz PIII, 512 mb ram, 40 gb hd) for most of 2000-2010. It was a solid, well-built machine, never failed on me once and did everything I wanted it to do. People thought I was nuts but I would always tell them "It does everything I need and I paid 40$ for it. Why should I spend at least 11 times that for something I won't like half as much and will likely be more than I need anyway?". I still get scoffed at when I say that a P4 is good enough for most people. Oh well

 

[DOS lives on!!]

I mess with people all the time by using vintage computers to do todays tasks. Whenever I type up stuff for school, I'll use Wordstar. For similar Excel work, I use Lotus 1-2-3. They just don't get how easy old programs are to use. And then I'll sometimes use a dt matrix printer to print it out.

And if all I can use is Windows XP on an HP dc7600, then there's the handy flash drive with DOSbox on it.

 

[Compgeke]

T...P4 is good enough for most people. Oh well

That really is true, as a Pentium 4 is enough to run a web browser, email client, etc. I'm sure you can get by with a Pentium III also. The thing about the Pentium 4 though is they were manufactured well into 2005, and by then there were Pentium Ds around, Dual Cores, but some people still used the Pentium 4s (cheaper?). In my opinion, a 6 or 7 year old computer is new .

 

[GADFRAN]

My 2 cents !

My 2 cents !

My 2 cents !

I hope a lot of those in the military, security, big companies, etc. know about this site – some of you may get some nice consulting and prices for your vintage computer knowledge / parts, etc. – maybe you already have !

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Then there is the memo that comes down from upper management that we have too many different computers we support on site and we must standardize to save money.

Well yes, but……………….

First those who set those older computer systems up have long since retired, died, moved away, etc.- sound similar to Y2K issues ?

Also someone years ago said that all those old computer manuals need to be thrown out – they take up too much room.

Why are we keeping all those spare parts for all those old computers anyways ?

Just simply program the new computers to do the job of the old ones – how many know and are experienced in Fortran, C, even BASIC today ?

Then the production processes can be very complex and trying to capture on a new computer system what the old one is doing can be daunting.

But of course, why did not “ someone “ think of all of this years ago when it was more feasible to try to do it ? But think of all the money they saved by not doing it for all those years.

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Finally the cost analysis comes in of converting the old computer systems to new ones – it can be astronomical !

So the whole idea is suddenly dropped and another “crusade” to save money for the company is begun.

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And those of us on production [some define it as “ just barely controlled chaos ! “ – if you have been there you know only too well ! ] just hold our breath every day for when, not if, the old computer system dies and as one poster on this site said, the company looses tons of money and customers, since product cannot be delivered.

Heads will roll – usually those further down on the food chain e.g., those in charge of production ].

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Now retired, but have seen the above many times in different companies, even at a Fortune 500 company that could easily afford a lot of this, but it would not look good in the annual report to stockholders.

Duh ! – it isn’t going to look good either when a lot of customers are not supplied with product !.

As the old Caterpillar large equipment company saying was –

“ No simple answers

Only

Intelligent choices”

Frank

P.S.

How do you define each of the words in that saying can tell a lot about those who “ claim “ they are in charge of the company.

 

[Ole Juul]

Actually, that is an easy one to get by.

The bigger question is:
If this piece of equipment fails, how will that impact our production. Especially if the manufacturer no longer supports the equipment and parts are rare or unavailable.
Will it cause our production line to go down? How much profit would we lose? If we can't deliver our products on time, will we lose customers?

An obsolete computer that could be replaced at a cost of say $10,000 could easily result in $100,000 or more in lost revenue if it failed.

Good point, and no doubt very relevant to a large enterprise.

The junk yard however, is probably looking at $0 physical replacement cost and no lost costumers. The relevant concern is probably that it would cut into somebody's time and be an irritant.

Aside: A friend of mine uses an old 386 with Lotus 123 for his invoicing. A couple of years back he was audited. I don't know if he handed them a 5-1/4" diskette - but I hope so.

 

[MikeS]

Keeps Dru and his franchisees rolling in dough...

 

[Druid6900]

My 2 cents !

I hope a lot of those in the military, security, big companies, etc. know about this site – some of you may get some nice consulting and prices for your vintage computer knowledge / parts, etc. – maybe you already have !

Yup, some of us have indeed. I don't know that they specifically come through this site, but, they could just as well as through any other link. I'd have to check the stats.

I hear those particular scenarios practically on a daily basis.

 

[commodorejohn]

That really is true, as a Pentium 4 is enough to run a web browser, email client, etc. I'm sure you can get by with a Pentium III also. The thing about the Pentium 4 though is they were manufactured well into 2005, and by then there were Pentium Ds around, Dual Cores, but some people still used the Pentium 4s (cheaper?). In my opinion, a 6 or 7 year old computer is new .

Our domain controller at work is a Pentium III running Windows 2000 :/ We'd replace it with one of the mighty P4 boxes littering the premises, but we're deathly afraid to touch it for fear of it breaking. Our whole site is a prime example of exactly why this kind of equipment is still in use; it grew organically as the business expanded, uses tools that were and are adequate to the task, but are now long out of date (hellooo, FoxPro 7!,) is only completely understood by one guy, who's ridiculously overworked as it is, and runs on a combination of vendor hardware the owner got suckered into buying and we can't touch, and hardware that we don't want to touch because it's working and it'd be disastrous if it suddenly didn't. We could theoretically overhaul the whole system and bring it up to date, but it'd be a massive undertaking, replacing several machines and ensuring that thousands of lines of code in probably a hundred FoxPro programs and shell scripts all worked correctly on the new setup and either causing who knows how much downtime, or keeping us from taking on any new business whatsoever for months on end. (Hell, my whole job is picking up the daily evening-shift duties so our overworked head IT guy can go be overworked on other stuff.) God help us when we finally can't put it off any longer...