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AST Six Pak Plus Date/Time not saving

B

bettablue

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Feb 21, 2011
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Eugene, OR
OK, let me see if I can explain this properly. As everyone here knows, yes, I own an IBM 5150 PC with an AST Six Pack Plus card installed. All of the options on the AST have been set up properly, at least according to the PDF document I used to set it up. The document is version 1.0 dated 1983. Everything in the card is working perfectly fine with the exception of the clock/calendar. I installed the AST's clock utilities; ASTClock.com, and Setclock.com. I verified that I have the correct battery, and that the battery is installed correctly, but whenever the system is booted, it reports error 6666666, and reports the date and time have not loaded correctly. When I check on it, the date and time have been reset to all 1/01/1980, and 12:01 AM. I know there is something wrong, but I don't know what, nor where. After setting the date and time, I performed a dCTRL+ALT+DEL to restart the computer. It loaded the date and time correctly, but when I cold booted the computer, and shut it down for about 30 seconds and started back up, the error returns, and the date/time need to be reset again. After that, the card was pulled again, and all of the jumpers removed, contacts cleaned and replaced. The computer was booted again, this time expecting the need to reset both date and time, after performing another warm reset followed by a cold boot, the error persists.

The card looks to be in great physical shape too with no visible cracks or breaks in any of the cirtuit traces. I also verified that the card matches the manual, and vice-versa. They do match. I don't think that's the issue though. The battery checks out fine too, 3 volt CR2325 Lithium. Is it possible that the battery is in fact the wrong one and is in backwards for the polarity? I even tried replacing the battery with a new one, and got the same result.

Maybe the version of sofrware I have is wrong. I do seem to remembeer seeing something about Superpak, but I was pretty sure that I installed the correct version of software for the six pak plus. In order to check, does someone have a working version that I can verify the properties against. If I have the incorrect version, I'll get the right one and reinstall it.

So, anyone have someting else to try?

Thanks much.

~BB~
 
If you are using the 1983 dated document, then you must have the long version of the SixPakPlus.

I have the long version of the card, and I am running the SETCLOCK and ASTCLOCK from the ZIP file at http://www.minuszerodegrees.net/manuals/AST_SuperPak.zip
ASTCLOCK appears on screen as version 1.10, and both SETCLOCK and ASTCLOCK operate as expected.

I tried to reproduce your "6666666" error, by removing the battery, and then by removing the jumper that disables/enables the clock chip, but neither resulted in a "6666666" error (by the running of either ASTCLOCK or SETCLOCK).
 
Chuck. It does retain the date/time during a warm boot. And to answer the next question in the thread, Yes, it is the long version. Sorry, I don't have a picture, but the card is clearly labeled as a Six Pak Plus.



Chuck(G) said:
When you do a warm boot, does the card still have the correct time?
Click to expand...
 
That would indicate that there may be something wrong with the AST's clock/calendar circuitry. Which, I guess is really no big deal. it was a free card. However, since last night, I have since unloaded the AST clock files and removed it from config.sys. No more errors, and the computer boots fine. It just doesn't have a date or time. The funny thing is that the computer will continue to load DOS and run just fine without the date/time set.

Now, I have another question regarding this though. During the install of DOS, My friend Ed, placed Command.com, and the rest of the DOS files into their own directory C:\DOS. I have never seen this configuration before, but everything works as intended. Even if I am on the C:\, I can type and run anything that's located in that directory. He says it's to limit how many items are on the root of the drive. OK, but the ASTClock and Setclock were located on the root of C:\ as part of the install, and NOT in the C:\DOS directory. Do you think having these files in a different directory would cause that issue?

I am also curious about the possibility of something else interfearing with the AST's time/date functionality, but I have no clue what that would be. I find it funny too that during a warm boot, the date and time are retained. Yet, during a cold boot, those are lost, giving that error. That would seem to indicate a battery issue, but if you are unable to repeat the error situation, then it has to be something else.



modem7 said:
If you are using the 1983 dated document, then you must have the long version of the SixPakPlus.

I have the long version of the card, and I am running the SETCLOCK and ASTCLOCK from the ZIP file at http://www.minuszerodegrees.net/manuals/AST_SuperPak.zip
ASTCLOCK appears on screen as version 1.10, and both SETCLOCK and ASTCLOCK operate as expected.

I tried to reproduce your "6666666" error, by removing the battery, and then by removing the jumper that disables/enables the clock chip, but neither resulted in a "6666666" error (by the running of either ASTCLOCK or SETCLOCK).
Click to expand...
 
Well, if it maintains the time across a warm boot, that means that the thing is ticking right along as long as mains power is applied. So I'd check the path of the battery backup power to see if it's getting through.
 
bettablue said:
Now, I have another question regarding this though. During the install of DOS, My friend Ed, placed Command.com, and the rest of the DOS files into their own directory C:\DOS. I have never seen this configuration before, but everything works as intended. Even if I am on the C:\, I can type and run anything that's located in that directory. He says it's to limit how many items are on the root of the drive.
Click to expand...
That was standard practice. Sometimes, a program such as PARK.COM may have been placed in the DOS directory as well, rather than creating a dedicated directory for it.

bettablue said:
OK, but the ASTClock and Setclock were located on the root of C:\ as part of the install, and NOT in the C:\DOS directory. Do you think having these files in a different directory would cause that issue?
Click to expand...
Not in this case.

bettablue said:
I am also curious about the possibility of something else interfearing with the AST's time/date functionality, but I have no clue what that would be.
Click to expand...
According to the manual, the clock functionality on the card uses I/O address range 2C0-2DF. Maybe you have something else in the computer that conflicts with that.

bettablue said:
I find it funny too that during a warm boot, the date and time are retained. Yet, during a cold boot, those are lost, giving that error. That would seem to indicate a battery issue, but if you are unable to repeat the error situation, then it has to be something else.
Click to expand...
There are definitely different versions of AST's clock software. There are possibly different versions of the 'long' SixPaxPlus (my long card does not match the drawing in the manual). I would only agree with your "then it has to be something else" if it was established that we had the exactly the same SixPaxPlus hardware/software.
 
Chuck(G) said:
Hmmm. Have you put a scope on one of the crystal pins to see if it's running when the power is off?
Click to expand...
Hmmm. It sounds like you thought that post #9 was made by bettablue.
Post #9 was me indicating to bettable how to perform your "check the path of the battery backup power" instruction (post #7), and roughly what to expect.
 
Uh, okay. I doubt that Thomas owns a scope anyway.

Emily Litella time:

6a00d8341bf80c53ef015390e305b6970b-320wi.jpg
 
Chuck(G) said:
Uh, okay. I doubt that Thomas owns a scope anyway.
Click to expand...
Yeah. I think he'll pretty much be limited to measuring pin 24, verifying that the RTC chip enable/disable jumper is in place, removing possible conflicting cards, and trying the version of software that I use.
 
Chuck is indded correct. I do not have a scope, or even access to one. I wouldn't know what to do with it if I did. Pardon my ignorance. But is there some other way, short of removing the card and either trying another, or sending my AST to someone else who can sheck it?

Is there maybe something else I can try. I happen to have a few old school electronics testers, Meters, and such, but I doubt these would be useful.

modem7 said:
Hmmm. It sounds like you thought that post #9 was made by bettablue.
Post #9 was me indicating to bettable how to perform your "check the path of the battery backup power" instruction (post #7), and roughly what to expect.
Click to expand...
 
bettablue said:
Is there maybe something else I can try. I happen to have a few old school electronics testers, Meters, and such, but I doubt these would be useful.
Click to expand...
1. Have you tried the version of the software I pointed to in post #3 ?

2. Have you verified that the enable/disable jumper for the RTC chip is in place ?

3. In case of possible I/O conflict between cards, have you tried operation with minimum card configuration - video / SixPakPlus / floppy controller

4. With one of your old meters (which is sure to measure DC voltage), measure the DC voltage on pin 24 of the RTC chip (MM58167) when the card is out of the computer. Expect to measure around the 2.8 volt mark. Measuring DC voltages is a skill you should learn, because down the track, you are bound to neeed it in one way or another in support of vintage computing.
 
Now, because of my lack of certain physical abilities, I have had to move the entire system to another room to set it up on a table where I can get to everything.
The AST was re-configured to completely turn everything off/ Then all of the jumpers were verified as being present and in the correct place. I even checked the jumpers to make sure that they were'nt broken, by testing them in a cicuit with my multi meter. One of the jumpers in the setup was bad, but I'm not sure which one it was. Then each of the card's components were enabled, one-at-a-time. No, the system wasn't tested after each component was reset, but I made double sure that everything is in the correct place: twice. Other than the one jumper that had a broken connection, everything seemed to be perfect. The bad jumper was replaced.

And, yes. I verified that the enable/disable jumper for the RTC chip is in place.

In the morning, the AST will be installed back into the PC, and I will install the software you recommend. I guess we'll know more then.

I am very familiar with my volt-ohm meters. One has been with me ever since I worked at Radio Shack back in 1986 when a piece of computer history was introduced to the public.


modem7 said:
1. Have you tried the version of the software I pointed to in post #3 ?

2. Have you verified that the enable/disable jumper for the RTC chip is in place ?

3. In case of possible I/O conflict between cards, have you tried operation with minimum card configuration - video / SixPakPlus / floppy controller

4. With one of your old meters (which is sure to measure DC voltage), measure the DC voltage on pin 24 of the RTC chip (MM58167) when the card is out of the computer. Expect to measure around the 2.8 volt mark. Measuring DC voltages is a skill you should learn, because down the track, you are bound to neeed it in one way or another in support of vintage computing.
Click to expand...
 
OK, we were able to get the card out today, and run a series of tests. Testing of pin 24 came back with a big nothing, but I'm not sure that we checked it properly, so we're going to open up the box again on Wednesday to check again. I did notice while reading through the manual that the AST doesn't like to have its serial port enabled if there are two other serial ports on the system, so I disabled the AST asynchronous serial port. After we recheck ourselves on Wednesday, I'll post the results.

However, after disabling the asynchronous serial port on the AST's mounting bracket connector, I ran a complete set of IBM diagnostics using a loop back connector on both parallel and serial ports. All of the tests passed with flying colors.

I have another question regarding testing the AST's clock/calendar. Is there supposed to be any kind of voltage going to any of the cards edge connector? If so, which pin and what is the voltage I'm supposed to see there? I know I'm supposed to see roughly 2.8 volts on pin 24 on the chip, will there be any other pins showing a voltage with the card removed?

Is there anything else I can do while I have the card out?

Chuck(G) said:
Yes, but what do you read with the on pin 24 with the power off?
Click to expand...
 
Chuck(G) said:
For my own edification, what is the clock chip on this model?
Click to expand...

I have both versions of the long card sitting in front of me with a socketed MM58167AN

Just for the record the short card I have has a soldered Dallas 121882 (makes sense, physically smaller chip for the half-length card)
 
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