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Model M cleaning issue

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bettablue

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Joined
Feb 21, 2011
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Eugene, OR
I got my model M keyboard about 3 years ago for use with my primary system. My personal model M was originally purchased by me as I stated, about three years ago. It has seen some pretty heave use. Actually, it's seen a lot of heave use. But over the last couple of days I noticed that the old girl was beginning to show her age. The keyboard was in bad need of a good cleaning. When I bought the keyboard, the owner had graciousy already bolt modded it to replace all of the plastic rivets and to solidify the keyboards design. Wow, this thing is as solid as a rock! Seriously, when I placed mine side by side next to a model M of the same year, one that had been boolt modeded, and one still sporting the original plastic revets, the differences are like night and day.

I had to clean the keyboard, so I removed all of the keys, and proceeded to let them soak in warm water and dish soal for a while, then rinced until I knew all of the soap was gone. I also got rid of all of the debris around the keys. That took som work. It looked like thiings weree beginning to grow in there. Smoke and ashes from my smoking days, dirt, and hair, and who know what else? All I know is that it took over a hour to get it all out of there. But in my hasts at reassembling, I didn't check the keys for water. And now there are parts of the board that work, and major areas that don't. So I pulled all of the keys again, and am going to let it sit until tomorrow. I want to give it enough time to completely dry out.

I am very reluctant to loosen the nuts and bolts that hold all of the layers together for fear that I'll do more harm than good. But in the meantime, I still think there is also an issue with the keyboard's cable.
I am hoping that drying out the keybard will resolve all of the issues I'm having right now, but if it doesn't, then what? Can someone give me any ideas on what to do to determine what the problems might be?

If I have to, I will buy another bolt modded Model M keyboard. Seriously though, I hope I didn't seriously damage mine. Just out of curiosity, does anyone hapopen to have an extra Model M PS2 cable?

Thanks much folks.
 
bettablue said:
. . . the owner had graciousy already bolt modded it to replace all of the plastic rivets and to solidify the keyboards design.
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I've got quite a few model M's but they all use screws and I've never seen or even heard of one with rivets - let alone plastic ones. So, I'm curious, what does "bolt modded" mean. Actually, I'm also really curious about the plastic rivets since that does not sound like any model M that I've got or seen on the internet.
 
It's sometimes difficult to describe, but I'll do my best.

Actually, all model M keyboard start out with that looks like plastic dots on the back of the steel plate. These can only be seen when the keyboard is opened. Under normal circumstances, the board can really NOT by opened any further because of the plastic rivets. These are actually part of the plastic piece that holds the keys in place on top side of the keyboard as they are melted during the manufacturing process. They act as rivets to hold all of the layers together. Ive done a lot of research into Model M keyboards, and found that over time, a lot of these plastic pieces break off. If you have ever opened a model M and seen all those small plastic dos floating around the inside of the case, then you'll know what I'm talking about. One way to keep the board solid is to replace all of these plastic rivets with a nut and bolt job, or rather what is called a "bold mod". There are a lot of resources on the web for bolt modding a model M keyboard.

Hope this helps.

Ole Juul said:
I've got quite a few model M's but they all use screws and I've never seen or even heard of one with rivets - let alone plastic ones. So, I'm curious, what does "bolt modded" mean. Actually, I'm also really curious about the plastic rivets since that does not sound like any model M that I've got or seen on the internet.
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Here is a pic of the steel plate showing the nut from all of the nuts and bolt job. Notice that none of the black plastic "rivets" are left. The bolt job replaces ALL of those flimsy plastic pieces. That's why they break so easily. If the model M has a weakness, this is it. Each nut shows where a plastic rivet WAS.

I hope this makes sense my friends? :cool: Cause I honestly don't know how to describe it any better. :confused:

Hope the pic helps.
 

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bettablue said:
It's sometimes difficult to describe, but I'll do my best.
Click to expand...

You succeed! Thanks for going to all that trouble. :)

If you have ever opened a model M and seen all those small plastic dos floating around the inside of the case, then you'll know what I'm talking about. One way to keep the board solid is to replace all of these plastic rivets with a nut and bolt job, or rather what is called a "bold mod". There are a lot of resources on the web for bolt modding a model M keyboard.
Click to expand...

Oh, those rivets. I'd completely forgotten about those. Sorry. I get it now, but are those really that delicate? I've only opened these keyboards on a few occasions and there's been no internal breakage. I've dropped and/or mistreated model M's in the past. Whatever they landed on is what broke. lol
 
They shouldn't be delicate at all--usually you only need to replace them if you want to open the mechanism up. I've clipped those off by using a utility knife blade and a rawhide mallet to shear them off. But no nuts--just self-tapping #6 sheet metal screws. I no longer have that keyboard, having traded it for a newer model M.

Mostly what I do to clean mine is vacuum it out occasionally and sometimes invert it and bang it on the table to get the larger bits of food and other stuff. Cleaning is done with a wipe of a rag wetted down with Windex. I've got decades of daily use on the one in front of me now.

As far as the cord, if it's one of those with the connector on both ends, Stone may still have some extras.
 
I've thought about replacing the rivets with self tapping screws too. But for some reason that I can't fathom right now, is why the folks at GeekHack look down on that type of repair. I have to admit that when I bought my model M, the bolt mod was a positive thing for me. I've had a couple of these boards over the years, one that had separated in a bad way inside because too many of the rivets were broken off. The other I sold before I knew what they were. I regretted selling that board just because I love the feel.

The next time I see broken rivets, I'm definitely going to go your rout and replace them with self tapping screws. Chuck Did you have to pre drill to keep the plastic from splitting any further?

Chuck(G) said:
They shouldn't be delicate at all--usually you only need to replace them if you want to open the mechanism up. I've clipped those off by using a utility knife blade and a rawhide mallet to shear them off. But no nuts--just self-tapping #6 sheet metal screws. I no longer have that keyboard, having traded it for a newer model M.

Mostly what I do to clean mine is vacuum it out occasionally and sometimes invert it and bang it on the table to get the larger bits of food and other stuff. Cleaning is done with a wipe of a rag wetted down with Windex. I've got decades of daily use on the one in front of me now.

As far as the cord, if it's one of those with the connector on both ends, Stone may still have some extras.
Click to expand...
 
bettablue said:
Just out of curiosity; what did you think I meant?
Click to expand...

I was only thinking of the outside screws that hold the bottom on. :) (Again, pardon my misunderstanding.) I've never seen a model M which has internal damage - and I've seen some pretty rough ones, but I guess it could happen in theory. I've taken them apart to drill a hole and attach a permanent chord, and also just out of curiosity. I'm guessing that internal damage would generally be caused by people taking them apart. The one in front of me has been used daily by me for about 6 years now, and who knows how much before that, and it is showing absolutely no sign of wear whatsoever. In my personal experience these things are tough.

PS: As part of a regular maintenance schedule, I'm planning to give it a wipe in about 5 years. :) :)
 
OK, I see /Now. too.

Ive run into these broken rivets and almost every standard model M I have ever seen open. I will have to admit my preference for the grey label ones made before 18982.Age could be a factor. Then another thing that can make a difference, is where the unit was kept. If it's too dry, expect to see more if them break. And, yes, they are brittle. Moister climates seem so see fewer breaking rivets. It doesn't take much to make them pop though. And once they do start, up to 50 of the rest will. I can often tell just how badly these rivets are by listening to how pingy the board sounds. Mine, which has been bolt modded, has no ping at all.

If you have had the luck to never had had these things break on you. Great. I know too that the Model AT keyboards don't use these same rivets to hold the keyboard together, so you will never have to deal with that aspect of the Model M's construction. Sincerely, IBM got it right with the first design. They shouls have stayed with it and only changed the key positions for the Model M.

Oh, I guess it is what it is.

Ole Juul said:
I was only thinking of the outside screws that hold the bottom on. :) (Again, pardon my misunderstanding.) I've never seen a model M which has internal damage - and I've seen some pretty rough ones, but I guess it could happen in theory. I've taken them apart to drill a hole and attach a permanent chord, and also just out of curiosity. I'm guessing that internal damage would generally be caused by people taking them apart. The one in front of me has been used daily by me for about 6 years now, and who knows how much before that, and it is showing absolutely no sign of wear whatsoever. In my personal experience these things are tough.

PS: As part of a regular maintenance schedule, I'm planning to give it a wipe in about 5 years. :) :)
Click to expand...
 
It's official. My model M is dead. So I guess I need a replacement. Does anyone here have a 1391401 gray label model M made around 1987 that I can purchase? I'll also be putting a reply to this thread in the classified section to reach a wider audience. Please send me a PM with details and photos. I prefer one with a ps2 connector, but either will do as I do have an original cable.

Thanks everyone.
 
I finally ordered the parts needed to repair the Model M keyboard. The controller cost $20.00, and I included 5 of the buckling spring assemblies for only $1.00. All, in all, not bad considering that everything is coming from Unicomp. I've heard a lot about them, so I thought I would give them a try. Anyway, it was while looking at the controller and attempting to plug the cable back in that I noticed that a piece of the connector had pulled out and is stuck on the cable end, but I'm not sure. The Model M I bought through E-Bay doesn't have a detachable cable, so I still don't have any way to make a comparison between the two.

What we need here is a couple of photos showing close-up views of the keyboard side of the connector, and a couple of views of the cable ends. Does anyone have a decent camera to get these photos?

As usual, thanks much.
 
That shows the cable end. But not the keyboard side. But I believe that's going to be enough. I ended up trimming some plastic from the cables connector in order for it to fit the keyboard's connector better. It fits nice and tight. When the new controller arrives, I'll test it with my cable to see how it works. But, if there is still a problem, I'll be on the lookout for a replacement there too.

Thanks stone. This is what I needed.

Stone said:
Is this what you're looking for?

http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcf...both-AT-and-PS-2-machines&p=149085#post149085
Click to expand...
 
Tom, if you end up needing new SDL cables for the keyboard, they're available on eBay relatively cheaply - I saw a few that were under the $15 shipped mark, which is pretty rare. There's also the guy who's crimping up new ones with straight cables - I think he's at the $26 shipped price point, however. Although I could be mistaken. One of these days, I'm going to USB mod one of my model M's. Who knows? That might be the one I decide to bolt mod to get what you guys are all talking about ;)
 
Hay Mav! Thanks for the advice on the cables. I see what happened to my old one. The side clips are both broken off. It's certainly of no big consequence right now. But I still have to see if there is going to be an issue after I replace the controller in the keyboard. I'll probably order a new coiled cable to replace the original too.

As for the bolt mod, I would recommend that anyone do that if they open their model M and see a bunch of the little black plastic did floating around the interior of the keyboard. Those are what's left of the top part of the rivets. Plus, a nut and bolt job does wonders for stability and makes the keyboard much less "pingy". For instance, this newer Model M I'm using right now... This thing is lousy with pingy springs. But there are no broken rivets inside, so there is no need to bolt mod. I will however do the floss mod, which is simply running a piece of floss down the center of the spring. The floss helps by absorbing some of the springs noise. Then too, I'll add a piece of felt to the interior of the case, between the steel plate and the bottom of the keyboard case.

There is typically no reason to add felt to an older board because the massive steel plate. Definitely go for the bolt mod though if you have a bunch of those rivet heads floating around.

Cheers.

Maverick1978 said:
Tom, if you end up needing new SDL cables for the keyboard, they're available on eBay relatively cheaply - I saw a few that were under the $15 shipped mark, which is pretty rare. There's also the guy who's crimping up new ones with straight cables - I think he's at the $26 shipped price point, however. Although I could be mistaken. One of these days, I'm going to USB mod one of my model M's. Who knows? That might be the one I decide to bolt mod to get what you guys are all talking about ;)
Click to expand...
 
I must have at least 5 model M's in use here. Shaking every one of them yields no sound of rattling bits of plastic; I wonder what yours have gone through.
 
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