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Getting Data Off my PDP-11/03 Faster

NF6X

NF6X

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Joined
Sep 9, 2013
Messages
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Location
Riverside, CA, USA
I have a PDP-11/03 system with a dual RX02 drive, plus a bunch of floppy disk that I want to image and archive. I can do it by doing block copies of the floppies under RT-11 onto image files on an emulated TU58 drive with AK6DN's nice emulator program, but it's a pretty slow way to do it. Can anybody suggest a faster way to transfer data off those disks and onto my MacBook for archival? I don't want to build an old PC to connect drives to directly, because I just don't like PCs and don't want to play with them. So, what other options do I have?

Maybe transfer the data over a network interface? I think I have DEQNA in my pile of recent acquisitions, but I haven't gotten around to bringing it up yet.

Maybe there's some sort of QBUS disk drive emulator card that writes to CF, SD, or some similar removable drives that my Mac can also easily read?
 
Hmm, that sounds like a good option. Better yet, maybe SCSI to a SCSI-to-SD or SCSI-to-CF adapter. My MacBook has an SD slot, and it's also easy to plug in a CF card reader.

So, what are some good QBUS SCSI cards that will work painlessly under RT-11? And are there any cards that I should avoid?
 
I see what you mean about being lucky/patient. I found a couple of CQD200 cards on eBay that are not cheap in my opinion, and all of the other QBUS SCSI cards I've found there so far are even more expensive.
 
That SCSI2SD does look pretty nice. I might need to get a couple of them and stick one in my Amiga 3000, too.
 
You could try making an offer on this MTI QTS-30. Currently listed at $175 with free shipping or Make Offer. Maybe you could get it closer to $125 or so (or $150 as Jack suggests), which might be more reasonable.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/251514096256

Same thing as an CMD CQD-200/T (TMSCP only), which can be converted into a CQD-200/TM (both MSCP and TMSCP). One downside of the CQD-200 compared to the CQD-220 is that it only works with LUN 0 of any SCSI ID. I have a SCSI multi-slot memory card reader with different LUNs for each slot and the CQD-200 will only access the first slot.

-Glen
 
In terms of compatibility, feature set, etc., how would that QTS-30 stack up against a UC07 once I converted it for MSCP compatibility? I made a brief and unsuccessful attempt to google up documentation for the QTS-30. I'll go give it another try, because <=$175 is nicer than >=$239. :)

And are they both compatible with 18-bit QBUS systems like my 11/03?

I have an Aztec Monster SCSI to CF board that I got for my Amiga a while back. Unfortunately, it seems to be incompatible with my Amiga, which I think has an early version of its SCSI chip that is known to have some issues. Maybe it'll work better in my PDP-11? Whatever SCSI to SD/CF/MicroSD/etc. adapter I use, I figure I should be able to stick it inside the RX02 drive somewhere so I can easily get to it by sliding out the RX02 drawer. That would make it easy to get to without any irreversible hacking of the original hardware, and it'd be invisible in normal operation.

I guess I should be on the look out for a Unibus SCSI card, too, for use in my PDP-11/44 project.
 
NF6X said:
In terms of compatibility, feature set, etc., how would that QTS-30 stack up against a UC07 once I converted it for MSCP compatibility? I made a brief and unsuccessful attempt to google up documentation for the QTS-30. I'll go give it another try, because <=$175 is nicer than >=$239. :)

And are they both compatible with 18-bit QBUS systems like my 11/03?

I guess I should be on the look out for a Unibus SCSI card, too, for use in my PDP-11/44 project.
Click to expand...

I have never had any Emulex Q-Bus SCSI controllers so I can't offer an comparison between them and CMD controllers.

The CQD-200 has a jumper installed to enable 22-bit addressing which can be removed for 18-bit addressing.

As far as Unibus SCSI goes, if you have to ask, you can't afford it.

$1100 for a CMD CDU-720/TM. Saw a few go for closer to $500 a couple of years ago and don't remember seeing any others since then.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/300082063055

$300 for a CMD CDU-710/T. Possibly a CDU-710/T could be converted into a CDU-710/M or /TM, but I wouldn't be sure about that myself without hands on access to a CDU-710/M or /TM first.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/160953163694
 
NF6X said:
I found Glen's page on these controller boards here:

https://sites.google.com/site/glensvintagecomputerinfo/cmd-cqd-200-tm

I can burn new EPROMs, but I don't have a PAL programmer at this time.
Click to expand...

I have hundreds of NOS 22V10 parts and the means to program them. Shipping would be cheap.

I finally got around to getting a Brother PT-2430PC label printer so I can put nice labels on EPROMs and PALs. See the last picture here:
https://sites.google.com/site/glensvintagecomputerinfo/sbc6120
 
Thanks, Glen! I have a Brother PT-2730, and just today I downloaded the old OCR-A font because I think that would look cool on hostname labels. If I win that 11/730 that's on eBay, I might name it "POKEY" based on a comment about what a dog that model is. Hmm, maybe I'll launch a thread for folks to suggest hostnames for it? That could be fun.

If Unibus SCSI cards are so absurdly expensive, then it seems to me that an inexpensive ($250 or less) Unibus disk emulator using SD/CD/etc. storage might be popular (if such a beast doesn't already exist). What disk system(s) do you suppose would be the best to emulate for maximum compatibility across Unibus PDP-11 and VAX systems? I'm not promising that I'll ever make such a beast, but I'm not promising that I won't, either. ;) A QBUS emulator might also be nice, but it sounds like the pain threshold of cabling together off-the-shelf items is much lower for the QBUS systems at the moment, even if their SCSI cards aren't always cheap. I've seen some references to various emulator projects online, but it seemed like some of them were ideas that never got off the ground, one-time projects that came and went, etc. If there's a "buy it now" sort of emulator for any of the DEC busses, I'd love to learn about it.
 
jackrubin said:
Glen,

What multi-card reader are you using? Can it use multiple CF or SD cards or is each LUN a different format?
Click to expand...

I have a SCM PCD-50B SCSI Card Reader. It was $62 plus shipping from http://a4000t.com/store a couple of years ago. I don't think they have any left for sale there. Each slot is a different format. I think the PCMCIA slot was LUN 0 (could use a CF card with a passive adapter), the was a CF slot on a different LUN, and 2 or 3 other different media slots. I'd have to go take a look at it to remember exactly what slots it has.
 
NF6X said:
If Unibus SCSI cards are so absurdly expensive, then it seems to me that an inexpensive ($250 or less) Unibus disk emulator using SD/CD/etc. storage might be popular (if such a beast doesn't already exist).
Click to expand...

Have you seen this from Brad Parker? The last update here is from 11/2013. Don't know what the current state of his project is.
http://www.heeltoe.com/index.php?n=Retro.Udisk
 
I have a kind of similar SCSI card reader in my Amiga 3000. I don't recall the make and model and it's buried inside the machine right now. If I recall correctly, the one that I have maps the different card slots to different SCSI IDs rather than different LUNs at the same ID. I had to jumper it to put the appropriate slot a SCSI ID 6 for the Amiga to boot from it, possibly disabling one or more slots in the process, if I recall correctly.
 
I have had good results with interfacing via SCSI.

So far, I have successfully used the following drives
to transfer data between my PDP-11, and one of my PC's -

SCSI ZIP
SCSI JAZ (Don't laugh -- it was before I knew better.)
SCSI PCMCIA (memory cards only)
SCSI to IDE, by using a SCSI <> IDE converter. (ACard AEC-7720U)
(This of course also gave me SCSI to CF)

The ZIP/JAZ/PCMCIA was just seeing if it could be done.
I typically use CF media, to go back-and-forth from my PDP to my PC.

Note that your operating system may have limitations on MSCP disk sizes.

For lower performing systems, older controllers such as the CQD200,
or the various Viking / MTI clones are just fine. Just make sure that
you're getting the disk variety, rather than tape-only.

Lastly, make sure that you're using hardware that is SCSI-SE compatible.




T
 
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