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New PDP-11/23, have some questions!

8044 are evil! the switches will get you. If you want to work on them I have a couple 8044 that are flakey, also have a full with (ABCD) International Nuclear that I think is a 64 or 128K card I can be talked out of. Be careful when buying cards so they are 18 bit and not 22, think there is some finite memory limit on the KDF11 and something bad happens when you exceed that so all the old VAX one and four Meg cards are no good.
Stupid question but how do you have the cards stacked in your backplane? The KDF11 (CPU) should be in slot AB top, then the communications card second under the CPU in AB, then the memory in AB and finally the BDV11 in the bottom of the frame using all four slots, ABC and D. The C and D slots are just about useless with the 11/23
 
I've actually had it CPU, memory, then serial. I can definitely try it the other way! The docs seemed to indicate the order didn't matter with these boards though.
 
Just an FYI, I see that www.varx.com has MSV11-D 64KB modules in stock for $49 each.

See: http://www.varx.com/CAT/MEMORY-DEC_MSVXX.HTML and look under MSV11-D.

They have other larger capacity modules as well.

I have no affiliation with them other than I have bought a number of modules from them in the past. Sometimes they are a lot more expensive than eBay, sometimes a lot less. However everything I have bought from them has been 100% functional.

Don
 
Just an FYI, I see that www.varx.com has MSV11-D 64KB modules in stock for $49 each.

See: http://www.varx.com/CAT/MEMORY-DEC_MSVXX.HTML and look under MSV11-D.

They have other larger capacity modules as well.
Don

I suppose if you have a Q22/CD backplane and a 22-bit capable M8186 and you were going to shop there then a 1MB MSV11-JD for $69 or a 2MB MSV11-JE for $99 would be more cost effective than a 64KB MSV11-D for $49, and give you more options for running something like RSTS/E
 
One other question, on the back of my machine is a plate that says "model changed from 11/23-AX to 11/23-AA." Does that mean anything other than the M8186 CPU board is a KDF11-AA rather than a KDF11-AX?

Will's boards page lists the AX, but I do have some DEC docs for the AA. I'm not sure what the major differences are though.

What is the model of the backplane you have in the system? I don't recall it being mentioned before. Is it a 16b or 18b or 22b QBUS backplane?
 
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What is the model of the backplane you have in the system? I don't recall it being mentioned before. Is it an 18b or 22b QBUS backplane?

Yes, that is important to know. Most of my BA11 boxes have H9276 Q22/CD backplanes, though I might have one with an H9273 Q18/CD backplane.
 
I believe this was a mate to one I bought of EFI on ebay (has the same AMP connector and DARPAnet card set). If so its a H9273 18bit backplane.

Tom
 
I'm not actually sure how to tell which backplane it has, but it's two sets of 9 slots and might be just like Tom's system. There aren't any markings that I can see, at least without taking it apart.

I rearranged my cards so it's CPU, serial, then memory, but it still acts like it doesn't have any memory. I actually haven't tested the dip switches yet though... I've temporarily misplaced my multimeter!
 
I'm not actually sure how to tell which backplane it has

If you take the cover off and look down at the backplane from above, there should be a label on top of the card edge connectors. Here is the label on mine with an H9276-A backplane.

0805141950.jpg
0805141949.jpg
 
I'm just now getting back to this, but here's some new info!

The switches on my 8044 were bad, so I ended up soldering jumpers between them to get them set to a starting address of 0. I don't know for sure if they only stopped working after I switched them a few times, but with it re-installed I did get PDP-11GUI's memory test to complete without errors.

I'm having the same problems booting from the tape emulator though.

I did open it up to find out what backplane I have, and it is an H9273, just like Tom mentioned. Does that change anything for me?
 
It depends on how old the H9273 is.

Early H9273's were bussed for 16 bits only. . . allowing up to 64k of addressable ram.

Later revisions are bussed for 18 bits, allowing up to 256k of ram.

You can modify the backplane to support 22 bits, for up to 4MB.

The H9273 is a "straight" backplane, which means that signals
are only bussed on the LEFT-HAND slots on the backplane.

This means that your narrow ("dual wide") cards such as the M8044
can only be placed in the slots on the left-hand side of the backplane.
 
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My 8044 is only 32K, and I've always had the cards on the left side, so I guess I'm setup properly for this backplane!

I'm not sure what my next step should be, though I was thinking of trying different memory just in case.
 
This thread has been going on for so long starting to forget where we are! being old and senile don’t help either. Let me try to review what you do have and what you don’t.
First off don’t think there is any big issue what backplane you are using if you have simple cards like the 8186 CPU, 8044 memory and 8043 SLU stuffed into the left hand side of the system, ok- so I know everyone is going to jump up and say what if it’s one of those weird AB/AB backplanes but myself have never seen one and think they are all ABCD so stuffing everything in the left side with CPU on top , SLU second and memory third is a good way to go. Regardless of it being 16, 18 or 22 bit.
The 8012 bootstrap terminator goes in the last or bottom of the card cage.
Second, you have the con up and what’s it telling you? In ODT can you look at the contents of registers? (R0 to R7) and input changes? When you enter addresses can you view the contents of those locations and make changes? Somehow recall that if there is no working memory in the system you can still stomp around in the registers and see and change them so that kind of lets you know ODT and the CPU are alive and think you were at that stage but if you can’t go to a memory address like L1000 and see (E) or change(D) its contents you’re not getting any love from the memory cards. Also did you check the address set on the memory cards? Your first card should be all ones or all zeros. Know that’s not real helpful but do recall on card one all the address switches are set the same way.
Third once ODT is good and you can load memory contents load stupid loop program and will that work? I have a web page that has a copy of the test loop program along with a lot of ODT info at:

http://staff.salisbury.edu/~rafantini/PDP11Octaltricks.htm

It’s all simple stuff but if you can’t do that stuff forget trying to load operating systems or XXPD and the like.
What are the lights on the back of the BDV-11 (8012) saying? The green LED is just a “power OK” but the four red LED can tell you a lot. Looking at the LED on the card bit 0 is closest to the two switches, then bit 1, bit 2 the green power ok LED and then bit 3 Normal operation in ODT waiting for a input will be bit 2 on all other off, if bit 1 is on and all other are off that indicates a memory error and the address of the faulty section of memory will be deposited in R1, if all the LED are on then you have the system hung at a location, bootstrap error or the halt switch set to the wrong position. Remember the BDV11 is your friend.
Hope this is not an overstatement of the obvious or two simplistic but you have been working on this for a while now and I am not one hundred percent on just where you are.
 
My machine has a ROM that wants to boot from a TU-58, so if I flip it to halt and start the machine, then flip off halt, I get into ODT just fine. I've run a "hello world," and the loop from your link also runs fine.

However, my LEDs are all on, all the time, even if halt is off and it's waiting for a TU-58 via the ROM bootstrap code.
 
Maybe your BDV11 card is not set up correctly? Will look at my card tonight and write down the settings. If you need a new ROM set I can burn you a copy of mine. That has the loader for RX/RL and a couple others on it and maybe that would help.
 
I did mess with the BDV11 yesterday a bit, but didn't get anywhere. I believe I have it setup correctly from the docs, but I'd love to compare it with your settings.

I'm getting ahead of myself, but I have an RL02 on the way, so a new ROM might be helpful! I don't have any disks or a controller yet, but I'll find them somewhere.

Thanks!
 
I'm having the same problems booting from the tape emulator though. I did open it up to find out what backplane I have, and it is an H9273, just like Tom mentioned. Does that change anything for me?

hi, you may try beta-software I mentioned on another thread before: http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcf...DP-11-What-are-my-Options&p=294260#post294260

This is basically virtual drive emulator for rt-11. It uses ODT to push "startup loader" into memory of your pdp-11 than executes it. This "startup loader" uses same console connection to load HX "primary driver". The "HX primary driver" is very similar to any rt-11 driver such as du.sys, so it's capable of loading rt-11 system over same "console" connection, while still continue to use same channel for usual "stdio" with terminal. This process should be supported from "terminal" side as well (terminal should understand HX protocol and be able to attach virtual rt-11 images). Note here, I'm not the author and I described only my understanding of the mentioned system. The actual system operation may be far different, so investigate it for yourself.

Take latest VT53 terminal emulator with HX protocol support and some rt-11 system images and HX sources here: http://zx.pk.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=47039

Thread about this emulator here: http://zx-pk.ru/showthread.php?t=20092&highlight=vt52

quick config: There are many examples of configuration files included, change com port setting suitable for you computer in HX_com.cfg file, then run vt52.exe and open this configuration. Then you may try to switch into VT52 tab and see if your pdp-11 is online, if all goes ok and you see the ODT prompt than just push BOOT HX0: button.
 
On my BDV11 (8012) the switches are set the following way, E15 the big switch 1 and 2 ON, 3 OFF, 4 ON, 5 and 6 OFF, 7 ON and 8 OFF for E21 the small switch 1 OFF, 2 ON, 3, 4 and 5 OFF There is a 2K System ROM in E54 and a 1K EPROM in E57 The two toggle switches are both set in the same direction facing the LED lights on the back of the card. Would suspect that the E57 1K EPROM may be something like a 2708 although it has no window and a weird number on it like C48108 and the 2K ROM in E54 nay be a 8316 although it has a Motorola number on it of 23045E2. Would like to know what the chips are because just don’t want to randomly stuff them in the ProLog with out some idea first. On the 8186 I have W-8 installed for a starting address of 173000 and W-5 removed and W-6 installed so the system starts from the bootstrap, W5 and W-6 determine if it starts in Bootstrap, ODT or some other stuff so they are important.
Just a note, when my HALT switch is in the wrong position all the lights on the BDV11 are on, when the system is sitting waiting for a BOOT response only one green light is on next to one red. Think that’s system waiting for an input.
 
Additional thought, if the BDV11 is working correctly and all the lights are on the system is halted, normal indication on the back of the BDV11 is just one red and one green light lit right next to each other. Just knocked the system in ODT and that’s the display I see while the system is sitting waiting additional input. Just like it displays when waiting for a boot response.
 
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