IBM Professional Graphics Controller - FINAL PRICE - 289$

[tipc]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vtg-IBM-PGC...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Wow. I sold a working one _and_ the 5175 monitor for about 160$ on eBay a few back. I think I should have held onto it.

Still have the working card and a non-working monitor. Are these things going to keep going up? There has to be a ceiling, such a relatively small number of collectors. But no one guess a baseball card or comic book would ever be worth 1M$, so who knows.

Also have the uber rare Vermont Microsystems clone. A few others made clones. Come to think of it the VM card may have an 80188. Now isn't that interesting.

what would you pay for a complete working PGC card? If I didn't have one, and at this point were in the market, I may go as high as 200$. That's on a good day (for the seller). Card and monitor? Maybe 300$. Again on a good day.

 

[mikey99]

Is the Vermont PGA card also a three layer stack like the IBM PGA ?

There were also a few clone PGD displays...I think Princeton made one. I have an IBM PGA and PGD...
both were working last time I used them. I found there really isn't much software to take advantage of the PGA.
It does have a really nice 'emulated' CGA mode.....older games look really crisp running in the emulated CGA.

 

[Scali]

Doesn't ship to my country... which might be a good thing
I'd love to have one of these to toy around with
The monitor may be a problem though... The 5175 is not a regular VGA monitor... The card outputs 640x480 analog RGB, which any decent multisync VGA monitor should handle? But Wikipedia says the card needs to be modified (as opposed to just using a 9-pin to 15-pin converter).

 

[per]

The IBM PGC can display to any VGA display capable of understanding composite sync, and contrary to Wikipedia a standard 9-pin to VGA cable will do. I had no problem finding a composite-sync compatible VGA monitor, so I can only assume most of them support it.

 

[Scali]

The IBM PGC can display to any VGA display capable of understanding composite sync, and contrary to Wikipedia a standard 9-pin to VGA cable will do. I had no problem finding a composite-sync compatible VGA monitor, so I can only assume most of them support it.

How would one connect it though? The PGC has only a composite sync signal, while VGA has separate h-sync and v-sync inputs. Do you just connect the same signal to both?
I also found this: http://www.iec-usa.com/adp5126.html
I guess if all else fails, something like that could make it work.

 

[vwestlife]

How would one connect it though? The PGC has only a composite sync signal, while VGA has separate h-sync and v-sync inputs.

I suspect a lot of VGA monitors support composite sync. For example, the Apple IIGS produces 15 kHz analog RGB video with composite sync. Using a Mac-to-VGA adapter, I connected it to an ordinary LCD monitor, and even though it wasn't able to handle the 15 kHz scan rate, it did properly identify the H and V sync values of the signal, indicating that it was definitely decoding the composite sync:

 

[NeXT]

Wow. When the hell did these cards gets so expensive?

 

[Chuck(G)]

Compared to the original cost and limited application, $289 sounds like a good deal to me. Remember that the PGC is not your usual bit-mapped display and so is very unusual. How much software was actually written for it?

 

[NeXT]

Compared to the original cost and limited application, $289 sounds like a good deal to me.

Yes, and my half a million dollar graphics superworkstation from 1995 is still worth even 1% of its original value.

That I can immediately recall there was just AutoCAD but that isn't at all a surprise to me.

 

[mikey99]

Compared to the original cost and limited application, $289 sounds like a good deal to me. Remember that the PGC is not your usual bit-mapped display and so is very unusual. How much software was actually written for it?

From the original IBM price list :

Professional Graphics Display
5175001 Professional Graphics Display $1295
6451501 Professional Graphics Controller $2995

So basically that was sold at a 90% discount

 

[per]

When used in an original PC or XT the card itself is actually quite a bit more powerfull than the host. However, the number-crunching involved with in particular 3D still makes it quite slow. Allthough all calculations were done by the card, only a single flat-color 3D object can be drawn to the display at a time. The scene, object data, drawing-order (distance from view) and geometry stuff had to be kept track of by the host.

A very rough estimate for the cards 3D capabilities is around 100 filled square polygons per second.

 

[Chuck(G)]

So basically that was sold at a 90% discount

As compared to say, an Apple I. The point is that rarity and original price really has no bearing on gavel price when the primary consideration ceases to be utility. I could well imagine an "encyclopedic" PC collector willing to pay quite a bit in excess of this price, simply because his personal collection didn't have one of these.

I'd also expect to see other oddities such as the Data Acquisition card go for quite a bit for the same reason.

 

[Scali]

A very rough estimate for the cards 3D capabilities is around 100 polygons per second.

I wonder about that.
I'm currently developing a polygon engine for 5150+CGA, and I bet I could make it considerably faster with this card.

 

[tipc]

Is the Vermont PGA card also a three layer stack like the IBM PGA ?

There were also a few clone PGD displays...I think Princeton made one. I have an IBM PGA and PGD...
both were working last time I used them. I found there really isn't much software to take advantage of the PGA.
It does have a really nice 'emulated' CGA mode.....older games look really crisp running in the emulated CGA.

The VM card is 2 cards bolted together. I bought it years ago (long before I was an accumulator), from some guy while visiting my buddy in Connecticut. Spent a Saturday afternoon looking for cheap parts for a 386 (486?) I gave him. Heck maybe it was a 286, Wells American tower. Anyway there was a Toshiba workstation monitor, 16" roughly, which wasn't compatible w/the VM card, but the bundle was 5$. One of the things I would *never* part with. Not much of a market, but then again judging by the auction, who knows.

No software runs on it??!! O dear what a travesty! Then write some dude. I see these things as such extreme oddities. Who cares how popular they were. They're rare mainly because they were commercial flops (and designated for high end workstations also). Give me all dat stuff. That's what I enjoy.

It's sort of llike a sbc on a plug in card. All graphics cards are in their own way. But this one is more interesting since it's sports and actual general purpose uP.

 

[tipc]

How would one connect it though? The PGC has only a composite sync signal, while VGA has separate h-sync and v-sync inputs. Do you just connect the same signal to both?
I also found this: http://www.iec-usa.com/adp5126.html
I guess if all else fails, something like that could make it work.

It's been a while, I can't even remember the details. Combined sync on which pin? Both (vertical and horizontal?). It's a 9 pin adapter, compatible in at least the rgb signals w/CGA. I was using the VM card in an imaging box for a while. Maybe I was using the 5175 I sold, but I had thought these would plug right up to a NEC MSync. I used to have the II, now just the original. It'll be weeks before I can dig this stuff out and play with it.

 

[kittyboy]

I built a composite CGA to VGA converter that plugs into the db9 female out interface on the exterior of the standard CGC. I used a $25.00 Chinese manufactured PCB: HD9800 Video Converter. Additional information that you will need. Make sure to run continuity on your db9 pin cable and chart the color wires in the actual cable you will be using as you jumper cable from the CPU to the converter, many different db9 cables are around, such as, RS232 serial, etc... so that is the reason to check. Insure that the cable you are using is shielded and grounded. Next, get a print-out of the IBM standard CGA pin-out. There will be no installation or wiring instructions with the new cards, most likely, you will not find the correct information on the internet to wire this. Here's the trick, once you have insured the correct color wires in the cable follow this instruction carefully! (Pins 1,2 ground to cable shield braid and route to ground terminal on PCB), (Pin 3 to Red), (Pin 4 Green), (Pin 5 Blue), (Pin 6 to "S" terminal), (Pin 7 not used), Pin 8 Hs, and 9 Vs are spliced together and insert into the Vs aka Vertical Sync terminal. Use a 5v DC 2A USB plug and USB cable for PCB power. Standard bd15 pin VGA cable to plug into the out side to your VGA multisync set to LOW resolution and that's it! It is super low heat generating, so you can build a project box out of just about anything. I used an ESDS certified Tupperware sandwich box. Please note that the only computer image that will be out put through the controller is COLOR GRAPHICS ONLY. I hope this helps someone. I have some other mods I have done. If someone can help me answer some questions it would be great, so far it has been difficult getting people to help me with IBM 5150 and 5060 related questions with software.

 

[lysinger]

What would you want for the non-working monitor? I have 2 working PGC cards, but would take yours and the non-working monitor if it makes it easier for you. I tested mine with a 9pin to 15pin VGA cable adapter I had custom made locally. I bought a non-working monitor (smoked caps in the PSU) in the spring, and it was badly packed and the case and CRT were broken up ;_;. The PCBs were shot from being in a high humidity environment according to my TV repair guy (I was hoping to save the cards and graft them into a 5154 EGA monitor, but it was not meant to be).

Please PM me, thanks!