• Please review our updated Terms and Rules here

Tandy TRS-80 MC-10 question of value

wadevondoom

New Member
Joined
May 28, 2015
Messages
1
Hi all,

A co-worker just brought me what I think could be a gem. I have a used one time, in box, working, with manuals and extras, TRS-80 MC-10. I am curious as to what something like this is worth. eBay seems to have quite a range of prices. I also have a 16k RAM expansion kit, a TP-10 thermal printer, some games in shrink wrap and a pile of programming books.

I've read they are quite rare but somehow undervalued. Just trying to get an idea so I can properly inform him. If it wasn't working I was going to put a single board computer inside for fun but since it is in excellent condition I think it should be preserved by someone who'd appreciate this.

Thanks all.

-W
 
A quick look at the sold listings on eBay shows it might be worth $50, maybe a little more with the peripherals.

There are still more MC-10 computers available on eBay than there are people interested in owning one. It may be somewhat rare, but people have to want it to make it valuable.
 
The first computer I ever bought with my own money (for practically nothing at one of Radio Shack's where-is-as-is sales) was an MC-10 so I might pay a few bucks for a nice one just for old time's sake but... yeah, I don't think they're really valuable in any objective sense. They were a throw-away product cooked up in response to some perceived (IE, misguided) need to have a product to compete directly against the Timex-Sinclair 1000 so I don't think anyone really ended up very invested in them. $50 might be more than I paid new for mine with the 16k upgrade module.
 
Just to pile on, that was the contemporary opinion as well. http://www.atarimagazines.com/creative/v9n10/39_The_TRS80_MC10_too_lit.php

Years later, Creative Computing did a retrospective of their favourite awful computers (lowlights included the Gavilan, which may have been a little unfair, and the Mattel Aquarius, the System for the Seventies!):

Reviewer 1: "That's sort of like saying the poor man's Volkswagen Beetle."
Reviewer 2: "The what?"

But, they are cute.
 
When shopping for a cheap computer back in 83 I looked at the MC-10 and decided on the Timex 2068 instead (should have went with a C64).
 
I may have to turn in my Commodore fanatic card for saying a kind thing about a Speculum, but I thought the T/S 2068 was actually a pretty nice computer, considering. The main problem was that all of its nice enhancements made it incompatible with the Spectrums it was descended from, but in the USA market that wasn't a crippling sin since Sinclairs were unheard of over here. I have one too and though it bombed in the market it's really not bad for the time.

But, the C64 has substantially greater quantities of software and peripherals, and most importantly, it didn't suck. (FLAME WAR COMMENCE! :D )
 
Ah flame war... :D

I had a Zx81 and a Spectrum and although they were cut down machines they (Spectrum in particular) managed to get enough right for people to keep using them. And being Sinclair, they were stylish and very cheap. I can tell you there was no shortage of add-ons at this side of the pond for either of them. So many people learned to code on Spectrums in the UK. Of course, we had more advanced stuff like the BBC Micro (opinion: the very best 6502 machine ever) but it cost four times as much, so only the rich kids had them.
 
They're not THAT rare... even NiB they crop up fairly regularly; they're just so limited, so proprietary, have such a small library of programs that they aren't desirable, even as a collectable. About the ONLY time it was popular was in the pre-arduino days because the board was small and you could modify it to run off a square 9v.

The MC-10 was part of what is commonly called the "race to the bottom" -- which actually screwed over many other companies. Simple fact is the Sinclairs and VIC-20's low price put a fear into every other maker sending them looking to make low cost versions of their systems not taking into account that hardware just kept getting cheaper and cheaper. Worse, some companies (IBM, Commodore and Tandy stick out for this) didn't want these cheap models to compete with their mainstream editions and as such neutered the devices in ways that made them at best a novelty, at worst doomed to failure within a year of launch. For companies like Sinclair it worked becuase it's all they offerred, for companies like Radio Shack/Tandy or Commodore, it blew up in their face.

Marketing execs were all in a panic about things like the ZX-81 and TS1K, particularly as they were starting to show up at sub $100 prices in the glass case behind registers at chain pharmacies like CVS or Walgreens. The real shot to the gut being the 1983 price of $50 a pop.

Really the MC-10 is a poster child for this, in particular how the changes in manufacturing and cost of components doomed it from the start in a way I don't think it's creators could have foreseen.

A simple browse of the main radio shack computer catalogs from 1983 to 1986 tells the story...
http://www.radioshackcatalogs.com/computer.html

The MC-10 wasn't even listed until the main 1984 catalog, but let's start TWO catalogs before that. This was while the MC-10 was in development.

Code:
1983 RSC-8
----------
16k Standard Coco              $400
16k Extended Basic Coco        $500
32k Extended Basic Coco        $650

The MC-10 was designed to enter the market at below $200 with the memory pack being $50... seemed like a good idea; but move forward just six months to the catalog right before the MC-10's release:

Code:
1983 RSC-9
-----------
16k Standard Coco              $300
16k Extended Basic Coco        $400
32k Extended Basic Coco        $550

... and they all had their prices slashed a hundred bucks in just six months! This was partly due to cheaper design, but also because they were trying to unload the original Coco as at the same time they were prepping the MC-10 for launch, the Coco 2 was being slated for release... in the same catalogue and shipping schedule. I'm going to include the memory pack in the price to make it a more fair comparison by the time we get to 1985.

Code:
1984 RSC-10
-----------
2k MC-10 + 16k RAM expansion   $170 ($120 + $50)
16k Standard Coco 2            $240
16k Extended Basic Coco 2      $320
64k Extended Basic Coco 2      $400

We can see the Coco 2 knocked $60 off the price of the original, had access to the full existing coco software library, a better keyboard, and was in the 16k configuration just $70 more than a MC-10 with the memory pack.

Really though that gap narrowed in the months that followed:

Code:
1984 RSC-11
-----------
2k MC-10 + 16K RAM Expansion   $130 ($80 + $50)
16k Standard Coco 2            $160
16k Extended Basic Coco 2      $200
64k Extended Basic Coco 2      $260

That's some heavy duty price slashing, the 16k Coco 2 costing ten bucks less than a MC-10 plus expansion pack was introduced at!

Simple fact was the MC-10 wasn't selling, and to keep it from competing with the Coco 2 they'd have had to slash so far into it's profit margin it simply wasn't viable which is why it was killed off after less than a year of being on shelves. It reached a point where while it was never advertised in the catalogues, it was slashed down to $40 for the unit and $25 for the memory pack at the end. You look at the next catalogue, RSC-12, you can see why.

Code:
1985 RSC-12
-----------
16k Standard Coco 2            $120
16k Extended Basic Coco 2      $160
64k Extended Basic Coco 2      $260

In the span of two years we had gone from a 16k Coco 1 being $400 to a 16k Coco 2 costing less than the MC 10's introductory price with the memory pack!

In-house the numbers were worse, simple fact was that from about 1983 onward the sales of 16k models of ANYTHING up and stopped for Tandy. The C64 can be partly blamed for this as could the plummeting memory costs. 16 or 32k may have been hot shit in 1977, but by 1984 it was just plain shit -- particularly with 16 bit wading into the fray like a 500 pound gorilla leaving 8 bit looking like monkeys at the zoo. STILL many marketing execs at companies refused to acknowledge this which is why the Shack continued to offer a 16k version of the Coco 2, at least on PAPER, up through 1987.

Like a lot of products the 'race to the bottom' never ends well as there becomes a point at which you cut too many corners. In computing this is far more pronounced as the prices are ALWAYS in freefall as new technologies drive out old ones, and as new manufacturing methods allow larger and larger orders to be quickly filled.

This is even more the case when "competing with yourself" -- where instead of replacing a product with a cheaper one you try to go both directions at once. The PCJr, MC-10, Commodore 16 and Minus-60 -- all stunning examples of this. They simply crippled them too much for people to choose them over the mainstream product, despite the lower cost.

Or in the case of the Commodore Minus-60, comparable cost that despite gaining some really cool features like faster CPU, better colour palette capabilities and higher resolutions weren't worth losing things like hardware sprites, quality sound and software compatibility.

You can see how competing with themselves was a limiting factor when the same designs are released in places where there is no such competition -- the Matra Alice is basically a MC-10 and did a thriving business in France and several South American countries -- since it wasn't up against a more powerful system spitting distance in price from the same manufacturer in those markets.

The final nail in the MC-10's coffin though was that by the time it was in stores, Timex had discontinued the TS-1K in north America and Sinclair had few if any legitimate plans to continue in said market -- so the competitor it was designed to face had already left the scene.
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the excellent history of the pricing of the MC-10 compared to the 16K Coco and other low-end machines.

While it is true that the MC-10 was a poster child of the "race to the bottom" fiasco, it is now a very useful vehicle for retro-computing. Recently on the Yahoo group we've had people developing a 1K music player/beeper and graphic demo (like the Speccy), Zmachine text adventure engine, hires text utilities, a modern hardware remake "MC-11" board, composite output mod, and collaborations with users of other obscure low-cost retrocomputers like the MCE-1000 from Brazil, which also used the Motorola MC6487 video chip. I think the aspect of "resurrecting" a completely orphan and hobbled machine from the dead just adds to its allure.

Thanks again for the historical digging.

Jim G.
 
Have had an MC-10 with its 16K RAM pack since they were discontinued by RS in 1985, got both for about US$80.00, little bugger carried me over my Numerical Analysis course in college and even made its rounds among friends to help them out on their programming assignments - far better to do at home instead of booking PC time in the school's lab (always crowded and pressed for one hour sessions on a computer).

Of recent developments (2 or 3 years to date) I have fitted it with a RAM/ROM expansion board which allows for serial port connection to a file server, instant loading of programs galore and even a disk drive/joystick interface - stuff only dreamed about back in the mid 80s for this computer.

As of late I have taken to learn 6803 assembly language, one more thing to do in the retrocomputing arena at home.

Been looking into Ebay for a second unit - mine I will not alter the insides for anything, and I am interested in using the latest development on the hardware side of things: a composite video/line level audio board that replaces the RF modulator. Prices seen on the auction site are not too convincing, but if anything Ebay has taught me that patience pays off, there will be a stray at a decent price :)


-- RP
 
Back
Top