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Newly aquired Tandy 6000HD! Lots of questions to follow...

@Hans01 this is what I found in the service manuals:

6000 Pin 1 data Pin 2 not used Pin 3 clock Pin 4 BUSY Pin 5 5 VDC and shield is ground.
Model II Pin 1 data Pin 2 BUSY Pin 3 ground Pin 4 clock Pin 5 5 VDC

So the differences are pins 2,3,4 So would just have to modify a 5 pin DIN cable. Don't want to change things internally

And Steve your right why change something that was standard across 3 models of a computer line. Then change when a new one comes out!
 
Chromedome45 said:
Also dumb question I think I already know the answer to. Can an Xt or AT class keyboard be used on the 6000?
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Not directly. I considered making a PS/2 adapter with an Arduino before I found original keyboard for my machines, but dropped the project once I no longer needed it. If you choose to take that approach, it would be a matter of building a gizmo which speaks PS/2 (or AT, or XT) protocol on one side, and Model II protocol on the other side.
 
Pin 2 by convention should be ground--on many audio DIN plugs, pin 2 is connected to the shield crimp connector. I note that the IBM PC makes the same error.
 
Hans01 said:
@Chromedome45

I found the table for you.

Model II / Model 12
1 / 1 / data
2 / 3 / busy
3 / 5 / ground
4 / 2 / clock
5 / 4 / +5 Volt

If you take a look at your picture number 2. On the video board there are 2 connectors on the top.
The right one with 5 pins and one missing is the keyboard connector.
The layout is the same for both computers.
Click to expand...

Where did you find the keyboard info on the model 12 KBD? Now I am confused I was under the impression that the model 12 keyboard worked on the model II? So any pinouts for the model 16 keyboard? I don't want to just plug it in a poof! will do as my original plan make a cable with the wire changes.
 
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The 12 is like a 6000, possibly without the card cage installed. Same keyboard, except for the badge. So the II/16 evolved into the 12/6000.
 
NF6X said:
The 12 is like a 6000, possibly without the card cage installed. Same keyboard, except for the badge. So the II/16 evolved into the 12/6000.
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So Mark will a model 16 keyboard work with the 6000 unmodified or do I need to do some rewiring. Can't find any info on the 16 keyboard 5 pin din pinout.
 
Chromedome45 said:
So Mark will a model 16 keyboard work with the 6000 unmodified or do I need to do some rewiring. Can't find any info on the 16 keyboard 5 pin din pinout.
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Caveats: I don't have experience with the Model 16, but I do have a II, 12 and 6000. Also, I have not personally tried making an adapter to swap keyboards between families, but I looked into it a little bit before I managed to find the right matching keyboards for my machines.

If I am not mistaken, the II and 16 use one keyboard (cable attached to computer and plugs into keyboard), while the 12 and 6000 use the other one (cable attached to keyboard and plugs into computer).

Also, I think that keyboards can be swapped between families if you make a cable to adapt the pinout. That is, same electrical protocol, but different pinouts and different conventions of which end of the cable is permanently attached.

Can anybody confirm or deny this?
 
So than most likely a model 16 keyboard will work with a model II. Correct? If so than I can use the Model II pinouts to make an adapter cable for the 6000? Sorry feel like I am beating a dead horse on this keyboard topic. Just want to get it right.
 
There might be some confusion between the 16 and the 16B. There were 2 general designs of the model II line. The II/16 and the 12/16B/6000.

II/16 had the smaller case with the passive backplane with all components on the pluggable cards, including Z80 CPU, Z80 memory, etc.
12/16B/6000 had a larger case and the single motherboard for all Z80 functions.

II and 16 use the original thicker keyboard with the female DIN connector. They are interchangeable between the II and the 16.
12, 16B and 6000 use the slimmer keyboard with the attached cord and right angle male DIN plug. They are interchangeable between 12, 16B and 6000.
 
Got this email from the person I was thinking of buying the Model 16A keyboard from:

ABSOLUTELY will NOT WORK with the "B" machines (TRS-80 Models 12, 16B and Tandy 6000).
I do not know the pinouts.

I am guessing he means if I try to plug it straight into the front of the 6000 without an adapter. But no sure

Driving bonkers :confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::!:
 
I believe that a Model 16 keyboard should be adaptable to the 6000 by assuming the same pinout as the Model II and then making an adapter cable.

And if it turns out to actually be a Model 16B keyboard, then it should plug right into a 6000 with the cable already dangling off its back side.

To play it safe, why don't you share pictures of the keyboard here once you get it, and before you wire it up?
 
Chromedome45 said:
Got this email from the person I was thinking of buying the Model 16A keyboard from:

ABSOLUTELY will NOT WORK with the "B" machines (TRS-80 Models 12, 16B and Tandy 6000).
I do not know the pinouts.

I am guessing he means if I try to plug it straight into the front of the 6000 without an adapter. But no sure
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I think that your guess is correct. Is he asking a lot of money for it? If not, I'd consider getting it just on a gamble. It'll make good trade fodder if it turns out to be incompatible.

I bought a Model II keyboard on eBay, thinking I'd have to adapt it to my 12 (or maybe 6000; I don't remember the exact sequence of events). Then it became extra trade fodder once I got the right keyboard. Then it turned back into something I needed later when I got a keyboardless Model II to go with it! So I'd say just buy it if the price is sane and the condition is restorable. You can always trade it away, and who knows... maybe someday soon you'll end up with a keyboardless Model 16 and a Model 6000 keyboard? :)
 
Not to disappoint you but the 12/16B/6000 keyboards are extremely difficult to find by themselves. I have never seen one for sale standalone. They are rarer than the type II HD adapter! And if you are lucky to find a computer for sale with one then they most likely need to be rebuilt.
 
So pete I am basically SOL? is that what you are saying. Thought for sure a II or 16a keyboard would work with some rewiring.

Got an email he does have the 16B keyboards so maybe all is not lost!
 
Chromedome45 said:
So pete I am basically SOL? is that what you are saying. Thought for sure a II or 16a keyboard would work with some rewiring.
Click to expand...

I have never tried that so I can't say for sure. I would have to study the wiring diagrams to be certain which I would definitely do before trying it.
 
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