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What to do with an attic full of low serial number / prototype Commodore gear?

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petersk

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Hello Commodore enthusiasts,

I worked for Commodore from 1981 until late 1983... it seemed like longer! 2.5 years, several jobs, several bosses, what a ride that was! You have probably run some of my code... people seem to remember Scopy and 'The One Line Word Processor', both of which were my creations. I was in the same circles as Jim Butterfield, he stayed at my house a time or two in those days.

I was involved in the development of the C-64 operating system, but worked primarily on the utilities like the universal wedge and our efforts to port CP/M and MS-DOS to the Commodore B machines.

In the process I collected quite a stack of Commodore equipment, which remains tucked safely in my attic. There are probably 8-12 computers, many peripherals, adapters and cables and diagnostic equipment which I used to build software. There is a Commodore plotter, an 8 inch floppy disk, a prototype C-64 IEEE-488 adapter, boxes and boxes of things. Several acoustic modems, we used to whistle them up when we came into the office. :) Probably even some Commodore Winchester hard drives.

Here's my question: What is the best way to help my Commodore gear find the right new homes? My kids have moved to other interests and my memories are enough for me... I worked hard to get them working in production and have little desire to do the same again as a hobby.

There are some real gems in there... I have a Commodore 64 with a serial number 0030, when the serial numbers were still hand written. An SX-64, 8032's and 8096's, a McTerm 8096 and I think a B machine or two. Lots of disk drives.

I'm sure I could ebay them all, and perhaps I should. Do you think people who know about these things would find them there? Especially the early C64 should generate some interest. Or are there collectors who would make a fair offer for the full lot?

I imagine the first step is a full inventory... I dread the idea, but that seems best. I'll appreciate your thoughts.

Keith Peterson
or as I was known to some... Ken Penny
(Commodore wasn't too fond of moonlighters...)
 
Be very careful. There's just as many people out there willing to fleece you out of machines for next to nothing for the sole purpose or flipping at a higher price as there are people who honestly do care about the hardware being offered such that they will repair, restore and frequently display or use. I've personally experienced the former and it's disappointing to see when you aren't in it for the money.

An inventory however is always good, especially if you are asking around and you DO want some sort of recovered value. Make a list of every item by name and model/part number, plus take lots of good photographs of each item individually or in small groups. It's useful for identification and historical purposes. Disks and stuff liek that, especially one-off Commodore internal things are best archived before being distributed. There's a few people on these forums who archive disks for a living.
 
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petersk said:
Here's my question: What is the best way to help my Commodore gear find the right new homes?
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Have you considered donating your collection or part of your collection to a technology museum? The rare, prototype items could then be enjoyed by many in the future.
I imagine the first step is a full inventory... I dread the idea, but that seems best.
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Yes, an inventory would be in order.

Have you contacted other CBM company people and asked their opinions?

Merry Christmas,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://www.dickestel.com/fcug.htm
 
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As RobertB states, some of the equipment should probably go to a museum; like the Commodore 64 with the low serial number but there are many people who would be interested right here if you do decide to sell. NeXT has a point but as he states, not everyone is out to flip it for the money. I recently bought an Amiga 3000 from Micom2000 that is one of the jewels of my collection because it came from Jim Butterfield, a local hero in the Toronto area and someone I admired greatly for his technical skills and ability to talk to people at varying levels. It's not going anywhere. Pics will be up on my website soon at http://vintagecomputer.ca

I like to think that some of us with web sites are displaying these items publicly as well. Sure, people can't touch them and try them but it will still be appreciated in some sense.

Anyway, do list what you have. It does sound like a great collection of rare items that, unfortunately, will be hard to put a price on. If you do decide to sell, you can contact me through the website. Me or any other Commodore enthusiast would be crazy not to want any of it because of it's history and yours along with it.

Good luck.
 
A few semi-random thoughts...

Firstly don't jump into disposal, you may regret it, spend some time hanging out on the net and getting a feel for what is going on. There are lots of people with an interest in CBM kit, get to know them, have a browse of the other Forums, there are a few CBM forums, then if you want to sell you will have a better feel for who is buying, what they do etc.

Secondly watch E-Bay and see what sells and what doesn't, and look at "sold items" which are things that sold, and "completed items" which may or may not have sold.

Of course what you have is probably unique, or certainly rare, but value is relative, some one has to want it enough to buy it...

There is also VCF Midwest which has a big commodore event attached...

http://vcfmw.org/

.. hope this helps....
 
Ken, I noticed your location says Northern Illinois. There is a long-standing, still-active Commodore group in the area if you need some local advice, would like someone to come over and help appraise, etc. Let me know if you'd like me to put you in contact with someone.
 
I'm sure you'll get the most money out of it if you put it up on Ebay. Higher prices also mean that the things get looked after by their new owners.
Rare Commodore stuff generally ends with a high price these days. 8" drive, hard drives CBM-II computers.. those aren't common on ebay.

//RS
 
You will make more staggering your sales over a few months on ebay then selling them to a collector as a lot (who will most likely flip most of them anyway).

Pick an item, clean and test it (since you are a tech), make a bunch of clear pictures and write a small story about the item. See how it goes and anything that doesn't sell you can donate or give away. This way you don't need a crazy inventory, don't have to ship a billion boxes at once. If you don't have time to do this then maybe donating the lot to a museum (for a sizeable tax break) might be a good idea.
 
You could also, as has been said, consider donating them to a public museum. For example the Vintage Computer Federation Museum in NJ (which I am a board member) is a 501c3 public charity and can provide you documentation for the IRS about your donation. A 501c3 organization can't tell you what things are worth, but with some research and consulting your tax advisor, this may be a route for you.

Cheers,
Corey
 
Museums are nice ideas... but let's be honest here - how many people that truly care about the museum pieces will ever get to see it? There are some FANTASTIC museums out there with great collections... Most of which are located in other countries, or in far enough away places that I'll never be able to afford the trip to visit. Worse, few of them seem to archive the software and put them online where they can live and breathe amongst world-wide enthusiasts, must less post detailed pictures online.

I know that I'm not alone in this regard.

I'm truly all for museums... but the reality is that they reach a small crowd to begin with, and a small percentage of the truly interested people.

At least with eBay, with all the ebay auction tracking and whatnot, at least pictures and descriptions tend to survive the listing, and are out there for the world to see. Not to mention that many users photograph and show off their machines on the web later - so there's a much greater chance of your items being seen by the most amount of people, even if they're not able to experience them first-hand.

My $0.02... Ebay the stuff. Take some general pix, trying to show the majority of the stuff (especially the full machines and the prototype and unique items, get them out into the world for some opinions. This is a decent place to start, Amibay and Lemon64 forums are probably good ones to hit too. Word will spread, people that are interested will go to the places you're haunting and look for themselves... interest will be easily gauged.

Then ebay it. Tested and cleaned will bring the most money, always, but if you're just wanting to clear it out with the least amount of fuss, quickly clean (wipe down with the externals with a little soap/water so they look nice in the pix). Post detailed pix, the more the better. Post about them in the appropriate auction threads in the forums youv'e been using. Use 7-10 day auctions to give people the time to find them and bid... If you're truly wanting to reach a world-wide audience, then check out ebay's worldwide shipping program. It's a bit more expensive for the buyer, and will likely not get as many bidding wars over some things, but you'll be able to ship world-wide with less hassle for you - and hopefully a little safer for yourself as well.

Do make sure to educate yourself about the ins and outs of selling on a forum and also on ebay. There are pros and cons to each. Do consider that if you sell an item on ebay as "tested/working," it must arrive that way to the buyer or they can file a claim against you and you're out cash. I always sell items used as-is, and show pictures of them working if I test things (I normally do). I also don't accept returns or offer guarantees - but other people do and have done so without being bitten. I just don't want to risk it...

Any way you decide to go... I applaud your efforts to get these items into the hands that will most enjoy them. That's always a great thing... to me, computers, software, hardware, video games... it's all an art form, and as worthy of preserving digitally as all of the books, magazines, and other periodicals that are being digitized and preserved by so many organizations. Today's piracy is tomorrow's preservtion of history...
 
I'm sure the previous replies aren't making the decision easier...

I would probably split up the collection between standard production items (rare or not, low serials and all) on the one side, and special unique items like prototypes, hand-soldered boards, never-released (canceled) products on the other side. Sell the former on eBay and donate the latter to a museum.

A C64 with a hand-written low serial number may be rare and may catch a lot of money in an auction, especially if it's working, clean and in the original box, but isn't going to be of much value to a museum. Even a rare Winchester drive is not going to be of much use to a museum; if they're a good museum they'll already have that.

What's valuable to a museum (I reckon -- but I have no experience) is the unique stuff that has a great story attached. And the story is of course part of the deal and a good museum will want to record that. The Computer History Museum in Palo Alto CA has a hand-soldered prototype of the Atari VCS 2600 that probably doesn't even work, but tells a story of how they went from a single-board Jolt computer to a best-selling game console. I stared at that thing for half an hour to see which parts I recognized.

Especially if it's something that museum visitors are going to recognize (perhaps with a but of guidance), it might be interesting. A prototype interface adapter of some sort might just look like a random hand-soldered circuit board when seen out of context and you won't make money from it on eBay unless you're very lucky. But if a museum can show it plugged into (or as part of) a C64 and connected to an external device, with a plaque saying "This is the xyzzy gizmo donated by Keith Peterson, he worked on the firmware until Tramiel figured that a buggy serial port would be good enough for a floppy drive" or something, it becomes part of a story and makes it a lot more interesting.

When I emigrated to the USA, I had to get rid of my humble computer collection. There were no computer museums that I knew of at the time, so I scrapped the Pr1me 2355 minicomputer (which would now be ultra-rare - there's almost no information online about it) and the two massive SASI hard disks and a 9 track tape drive, and sold all my other vintage computer stuff in a big box for waaaaaaay too little money, drove 2 hours to deliver it to a guy's home (I had a company car so it didn't cost me any gas), and he didn't even invite me in for a cup of coffee and/or to chat for a little while to go over the collection. He probably just sold all the items one by one and made a big profit. Giving up my tiny collection was one of the most difficult things I've ever done, but I had no choice. I still have my memories but I have nothing to show for it, I never even took pictures of what I had. I hope your collection ends up in good hands; on eBay you can't choose who you're selling to!

===Jac
 
I have to side with Maverick about museums. They are often black holes, much like ebay. Things go in and MAYBE you get to see them. I've seen many unique ebay items bought and then they disappear into a private collection never to be seen again. Any unique items should be donated to enthusiast that can preserve and document them for all to enjoy. There are a handful of Commodore collectors that do more than just "collect". I am one of them. I have bought rare items, in particular CBM-II related items. I have a CBM-II specific web site. For the interesting stuff I have tried to document them in pictures. If there is a ROM or disk I archive it and make it available. In some cases I have reverse engineered the schematics and posted them. This way the rare items are not lost. They can be looked at, enjoyed, and preserved.

A real example. Dennis Jarvis was an engineer who worked at Commodore on the C65, 1581 and also CBM-II stuff. Several years ago he contacted me after seeing my pages. He sent me his disk collection and some rare hardware. A friend and I archived all those disks and I took pictures of the hardware to display on my site (it's partly there now but hidden until it's completed). Eventually (yes, life can get in the way) it will be posted for all. Sadly, Dennis passed away recently but his Commodore stuff has been preserved... things like the actual source code to the C64's firmware, C65 and 1581 code etc. Also, I sent detailed scans of one of the C65 boards to someone and he actually cloned the board. Impressive work, which would not have been possible if these rare items landed in the wrong hands.

So, my advice... common stuff on ebay. Rare/prototype stuff seek out the best person or persons that can preserve them for all.

Steve
 
Hi Steve,

Apropos of C65s I might be messaging you at some point since my own C65 seemed to expire a few years ago...

W
 
sjgray said:
I have to side with Maverick about museums. They are often black holes, much like ebay. Things go in and MAYBE you get to see them.
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The difference is that at least you know where they are. Once something goes into a private collector's hands, you should consider it gone forever unless it magically resurfaces again.
 
Trixter said:
The difference is that at least you know where they are. Once something goes into a private collector's hands, you should consider it gone forever unless it magically resurfaces again.
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Exactly. That's why you need to pick a collector or enthusiast with a track record ;-) There are lots of collectors on the web that show off their collections, and if you get the right one they'll be happy to add a rare or prototype item to their page.

Let's just pick one at *cough* random:
http://www.6502.org/users/sjgray/computer.html

Ok, I'm not saying I deserve all this stuff. I'm not the only one. It's the sellers choice and if he wants to sell for profit that's his decision. But if he wants these things preserved and made available for everyone to look at he can easily google and find the right people. If he sells on ebay it'll be left up to chance. If he donates to a museum then it'll get put in storage and only brought out if it's deemed as a valuable historical item. If it gets to the right Commodore enthusiast then right away it's of historical value.

Steve
 
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sjgray said:
If he donates to a museum then it'll get put in storage and only brought out if it's deemed as a valuable historical item.
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Ah, you don't know Stephen Jones of the Living Computer Museum up in Seattle, Washington. He is a big-time Commodore enthusiast and has many C= items on display. In fact, he has offered to host a Commodore show at the museum. Now if I can just figure out the details of such a show... :)

Merry Christmas,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://www.dickestel.com/fcug.htm
 
Oddly I saw some interesting CBM bits when I went on a collection tour at the UK's National Media Museum, Bradford...

http://www.nationalmediamuseum.org.uk/events/adults/collectiontours.aspx

you used to be able to search their collections on-line but the site appears to be down...

http://collectionsonline.nmsi.ac.uk/

... they have a nice little C-64 with a clip on Mini Music keyboard for use with simple synthesiser. If you are in the UK and interested in Vintage Computing and Gaming its a great place to visit, but I would say a collections tour is essential. If you tell them what you are interested in and they can concentrate on that area of the museum....
 
billdeg said:
One thing for sure, the major museums don't seem to display or exhibit CBM B series computers very often.
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True, most exhibits I've seen deal with the more visually interesting and famous historical systems. CBM B, etc, may be a little esoteric.
 
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