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9 pin ??? to 15 pin vga

zeos

Member
Joined
May 14, 2014
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Location
waco, tx
A customer brought in his 30+ year old seismograph and it has a 9 pin video connector. There is a 286 single board computer on an isa backplane with what I assume is an add-on video card. The videocard has a TI tms34010 chipset and the board says monochrome on the silkscreening. The sbc also has a 9 pin connector labeled "ext monitor." My customer also brought in the monitor, that one of his employees helpfully cut the connector off of.

My question is; is it possible to convert cga/ega/??? to 15 pin vga with just a cable?

Failing that what would the pinout be for a monitor with only 5 wires?

here are some pictures.

videocard

IMG_20151029_175358.jpg


single board computer

IMG_20151029_175345.jpg


monitor

IMG_20151105_153417.jpg
 
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Quite possible--in fact, several VGA-capable monitors came with not 15 pin HD connectors, but regular DE-9s.

Of course, I'd recommend a multisync monitor.
 
Quite possible--in fact, several VGA-capable monitors came with not 15 pin HD connectors, but regular DE-9s.

Of course, I'd recommend a multisync monitor.
Yes, but they still sent the Analog VGA signal thru the 9 pin connector. You know that a CGA/EGA signal is not Analog. The multisync monitor switches its signal handling from TTL to Analog accordingly.
 
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9-pin doesn't always mean MDA/CGA/EGA. I've got monitor cables from analog monitors with separate R/G/B/H/W BNC connectors, and a DE9 on the other end.
 
There is also a VGA-9 connector. Some early NEC multisync are using this, or Philips/Commodore/ATARI PAL/NTSC-Video-Monitors as well (but they only can display 50/60Hz interlaced 15 kHz videosignal, the Philips can display CGA when switching them in TTL-mode). Some monitors like NEC Multisync series came with ready made adapters between VGA-15 and VGA-9.

Here you can find the VGA-15, VGA-9/Monochrome, VGA-9-color connector pinout: http://info-coach.fr/atari/hardware/interfaces.php#vga_color_cable

That graphics card is not CGA, EGA, MDA or VGA, it is following the TIGA standard, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TMS34010
 
I think the Tandy VM-3 is supposed to be a MDA/Hercules compatible monitor. So those pinouts are probably right for that monitor.

But, with the amount of stuff on that video card there is no way that is a MDA or Herc graphics card. It is probably designed for some kind of custom hardware graphics acceleration.

Are you sure this is the monitor that goes with this system?
 
Even the IBM PGC in 1984 used something very similar to the 9-pin VGA pinout, only difference being one composite sync instead of H/V sync on separate pins. Most late VGA monitors will do OK with composite sync as well, and I've for years had my PGC connected to a VGA monitor through a 9-pin to 15-pin VGA adapter cable.
 
According to this - http://support.radioshack.com/support_accessories/doc4/4691.htm
Tandy VM-3 is an MDA/Hercules monitor, so you can't simply replace it with a VGA monitor.

However, it's a little strange to see a TMS34010 on a card which is supposed to output MDA/Hercules signal.
It's a graphics co-processor chip from the ISA SVGA period, so it was typically paired with some SVGA chipset, or supposed to cooperate with a separate SVGA card.
 
I used to have a DEC pizza box (486) with a TMS34010 or equivalent built in. What I gathered was that the chipset was very programmable. You could not connect the computer to a VGA/SVGA monitor, but rather it displayed VGA modes on a 64khz fixed frequency monitor. Granted if a Multisync could scan that high, and most modern ones did post 1993?, it would also work. Perhaps this card is designed to work with more mainstream monitors. And weren't there SVGA modes that could output MDA suitable for the VM-3? In any event it probably was a function of the parameters passed to the card. Many of the 1995 and newer cards also had very programmable firmware. Don't ask me the names, there were a bunch is all I know. You could program the polarity of the sync signals, composite sync, sync on green, whatever you wanted. Many "workstation" fixed frequency monitors used syncs that were the opposite polarity of say 640 x 480 VGA IIRC. In any event it took fenagling to get VGA or SVGA to display on one of those monitors. I've owned and sold many back when. The Macs would plug right in and do their thing. The first time I got a Mac II to display on an old IBM 19" workstation monitor, made by Sony, I nearly fell over they were so drop dead gorgeous.
 
Well, the old VGA boards like the Paradise could run MDA/CGA/EGA and VGA monitors., so this one doesn't surprise me any. There were a couple of outfits that customized bog standard EGA and VGA cards for use with fixed-frequency monitors with either SOG, separate or combined sync lines. I used a Mitsubishi 19" monitor from a Daisy workstation, then an HP 19" workstation monitor. Compared to consumer monitors of the time, the workstation ones were pretty good.
 
I think the Tandy VM-3 is supposed to be a MDA/Hercules compatible monitor. So those pinouts are probably right for that monitor.

But, with the amount of stuff on that video card there is no way that is a MDA or Herc graphics card. It is probably designed for some kind of custom hardware graphics acceleration.

Are you sure this is the monitor that goes with this system?

the customer said it is the monitor they used on it. the computer board also has a 9 pin connector labeled "ext monitor;" so either way I know I have a 9 pin connector, that vga monitor's don't like, and an old monitor with 5 wires to be connected to.

tomorrow I will see if the manufacturer is still in business. I couldn't find anything on the the company, pc tech inc lake city mn, that made the possible video card.

According to this - http://support.radioshack.com/support_accessories/doc4/4691.htm
Tandy VM-3 is an MDA/Hercules monitor, so you can't simply replace it with a VGA monitor.

However, it's a little strange to see a TMS34010 on a card which is supposed to output MDA/Hercules signal.
It's a graphics co-processor chip from the ISA SVGA period, so it was typically paired with some SVGA chipset, or supposed to cooperate with a separate SVGA card.

given that this is a seismograph it wouldn't surprise me if that 34010 card is plotting seismic info or something like that there is another card that I assume is some kind off memory card, maybe a data acquisition card, or something. the batteries on that card had gone out and that is why it was brought to me, but it turns out that the unit has to be setup again if the batteries go out so that is why I have to get a monitor hooked up to this thing.

here is a pic of that other card if any one is interested.

IMG_20151029_175421.jpg
 
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Here's what I've got on the board: ("PC Tech Inc., not to be confused with PC Technologies, Inc.).

Color 34010 Board
Functions: 1024-4096 kbytes RAM memory Resolution: 1024 x 800; 256 color graphics
IBM PC XT AT Full length Introduced 1987
Cost: $1,195 (1024K)

See page 2 of MicroC for the advertisement.

Looks like you'll find a review in the Nov. 1989 issue of Byte also.
 
Here's what I've got on the board: ("PC Tech Inc., not to be confused with PC Technologies, Inc.).

Color 34010 Board
Functions: 1024-4096 kbytes RAM memory Resolution: 1024 x 800; 256 color graphics
IBM PC XT AT Full length Introduced 1987
Cost: $1,195 (1024K)

See page 2 of MicroC for the advertisement.

Looks like you'll find a review in the Nov. 1989 issue of Byte also.

but the board say "34010 monochrome rev. 2a"

edit: nvm I read the ad.
 
No... CGA/EGA signals are TTL while VGA is Analog so it requires more than just a cable.

Quite possible--in fact, several VGA-capable monitors came with not 15 pin HD connectors, but regular DE-9s.
Yes, but they still sent the Analog VGA signal thru the 9 pin connector. You know that a CGA/EGA signal is not Analog. The multisync monitor switches its signal handling from TTL to Analog accordingly.

Stone, your answer is less correct than Chuck's. Note that the OP's question was this:
The sbc also has a 9 pin connector labeled "ext monitor." ... is it possible to convert cga/ega/??? to 15 pin vga with just a cable?
Emphasis on ???.

Zeos asked if it's possible to connect something that could be CGA or EGA or something else to 15-pin VGA (i.e. to a DE-15 VGA connector).

It is possible for some value of ???.
It is possible if that 9-pin connector is actually a VGA-compatible analog video connector. You're making the assumption that it's not, and that's jumping to conclusions.

However, I think zeos' original post was also somewhat confusing.

Let me ask you, zeos, to clear things up:

1. Do I understand you correctly that you are talking about two 9-pin D-sub (DE-9) video connectors, one the SBC, and one on what we think is an add-on TIGA video card?

2. You say that that Tandy VM-3 monochrome monitor was "the monitor" that was used with this system. Especially if there are two DE-9 connectors, do you know which connector that monitor would have been connected to before its cable connector got cut off? (Either connector? Or if only one, then which?)

3. I'm assuming you suddenly mentioning that there are five wires means you counted that number of wires in the VM-3's monitor cable whose connector was cut off. (You might have wanted to make that explicit.)
I can show you a pinout for a monochrome monitor that only requires five wires – however you don't make it clear whether your VM-3 monitor has a cable that's moulded to the monitor at the monitor end, or whether the cable is detachable at both ends. (Smart questions; others don't see what you see; the most pernicious assumptions are the ones we don't know we're making, yadda, yadda, yadda.) If it's detachable at both ends, then depending on whether you know the pinout of the connectors at the monitor end (DE-9 again? Something else?), it might be relatively easy to figure out which wire is which, and thus re-attach a suitable DE-9 connector to the cut end while referring to the aforementioned mono TTL pinout diagram (trusting that the TIGA or SBC DE9 pinout is the same as the aforementioned mono pinout, which is probably but not necessarily true) and using a simple continuity tester/multimeter. If the cable is moulded at the monitor end, and if you don't have the bit that was cut, then it might be significantly harder to figure out what's what, and I am not knowledgable enough to help you with that. Maybe someone else here might.
(Maybe the GND at least is identifiable with a multimeter. Maybe there's some kind of in-cable colour-coding that I don't know but that someone else does. Maybe you'd have to open the monitor and figure out where things go.)

4. I do know that VGA signals can be fed through DE-9 connectors, and I have built just such an adapter (because I have a VGA video cable with DE-15 on one end and DE-9 on the other – my adapter undoes that DE-9 end back to DE-15; also shown: a DE15-RJ45 converter box, because even that's possible). You can do that because VGA requires just R, G, B, their returns, H, V, and GND. See the pin out section in the box here. However, the later VGA I²C/DDC features occupy some of the other 15 pins on a DE-15 connector, so don't expect plug-and-play monitor/resolution recognition to work across a DE-9 connector. (NB: Not all VGA cables are strictly alike. Test as required.)
It might be possible to feed monochrome VGA through just five wires by only using G and G-return, leaving out R, B, R-ret and B-ret.
Maybe
it's even possible to just connect all the returns to the ground, and if the shielding is connected through and equals ground and/or if the monitor and computer share a common ground, then maybe five wires might suffice for R, G, B, H, V. But I don't know that for sure, and it'll probably cause image ghosting, might even cause equipment damage and/or a fire hazard, and in any case, I seriously doubt that that's what your five wires were for.

5. If your only concern is connecting that VM-3 monochrome TTL monitor, why even ask about 15-pin VGA? Was it because you thought that VM-3 was some kind of VGA monitor? Or do you think that one of the two DE-9 connectors (see (1)) is a VGA connector and one is a TTL connector? (I'd say that's possible, but I don't know.)

6. Your images are pretty unhelpful. The printed info isn't legible and thus not googleable. And is the VM-3 a portrait monitor? The resolution in Xacalite's link suggests that it's a landscape mode close to 4:3, but the pixels may not be square, so it could still be a portrait monitor.

7. There are some crazy hacks that might allow connecting a TTL video board to a VGA CRT, but unless you know exactly what you're doing, you probably should attempt this, and it might damage your hardware. Anyway, especially an odd-resolution portrait monitor may not allow you to just connect a run-of-the-mill VGA or TTL monitor to the connector that it, the former, was hooked up to – in case that's what you were planning to do. Very unlikely to work.

(And please, zeos, use some punctuation. Your questions are confusing enough, and your "there is another card" paragraph took me a double-take.)

PS:

8. I spy with my little eye two D-sub connectors on your SBC. So is the DB-25 connector a serial port? If so, is there maybe a chance that you could hook up a simple terminal (emulator) to a serial console on that port? (That might be easier.)
 
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Those of you saying TTL vs Analog is the reason you can't use a passive adapter cable to convert from CGA/MDA/Hercules to VGA:

If the signal being TTL (0 V or 5 V as opposed to an analog signal) was the only factor, you could in fact use a passive adapter cable made up of a simple resistor ladder to convert to VGA. The bigger problem is that the horizontal sync rate of a CGA monitor is ~15 kHz (and I think MDA is ~18 kHz), whereas most VGA monitors will only sync down to ~30 kHz. In other words, a CGA or MDA video card is only transmitting about half a line of video in the frame of time a VGA monitor is expecting a full line of video, and VGA monitor hardware doesn't cope with that nicely most of the time. As others have mentioned, there are specific models of multi-sync VGA monitors that can do it, although not all monitors categorized as multi-sync can.
 
Here's what I've got on the board: ("PC Tech Inc., not to be confused with PC Technologies, Inc.).

Color 34010 Board
Functions: 1024-4096 kbytes RAM memory Resolution: 1024 x 800; 256 color graphics
IBM PC XT AT Full length Introduced 1987
Cost: $1,195 (1024K)

See page 2 of MicroC for the advertisement.

Looks like you'll find a review in the Nov. 1989 issue of Byte also.
Ok, so what the deal probably is, is that this fancy card was running in MDA/Herc compatiblity mode. In that case the pinouts in this mode should be the same as normal MDA.

As the above post mentioned, if that has a detachable cable with a DB9 plug at the monitor, I would expect it to be straight through.

If not, looking at the PCB in the monitor might give you some clues which pin is which... but even that is probably not necessary. It should be easy enough to figure out which is ground, and after that you only have a few different combinations to guess at as to which is H, V, Vid, and Vid Intensity.

Off hand didn't see a service manual on the web for a "VM-3", but there might be some other part number printed on the back of the monitor that would yield better search results.
 
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