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Alphaserver 400 4/233 - Should I get it?

johnnycontrario

johnnycontrario

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Joined
Jun 23, 2023
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So I've been interested in branching out from x86 vintage computing. I'm a long time Linux user and I'm interested in vintage Unix and other multi-user systems. I found a local listing for a working Alphaserver 400 4/233, and the pictures appear to include the case key. I'm tempted, but I wanted to ask the experts to talk me out of it first.

My questions are:
Is this a good machine to start with? I'm hoping that it's capable of multiple interesting configurations.
Are there any show-stoppers like unobtanium disk images or lost license keys that would render this machine a doorstop?
Is US$350 too much?
 
If it is 'working' then it must be complete, PS, CPU, RAM, Disk and that is quite positive. It will need a Keyboard and monitor, mouse. I have an AlphaServer 1000a and it takes ordinary PC mouse, VGA monitor, the keyboard I have is a DEC brand, but I think the plug is standard PS/2. $350 maybe a good price, looking on ebay the alpha computers are listed with high prices, so it may be a bargain if it 'runs'. If it boots into a licensed OS then I would consider it seriously.
 
They claim tested/works, but it's from a recycling company that advertises data security, so if it has disk storage, I doubt the OS is intact.
From the pictures, it looks like it has PS2 ports for keyboard and mouse, and it looks like there's a VGA port on the upper most slot. I'm guessing it has a PCI video card installed.
 
Ironic, but the AlphaServer I got had disks that weren't erased. I think because no one knew how to do it! Everybody can erase a SATA disk from a PC, but SCSI? The problem with these things is that this opportunity may never present itself again. That's why I have a basement full of DEC stuff BTW.
 
dtih said:
Ironic, but the AlphaServer I got had disks that weren't erased. I think because no one knew how to do it! Everybody can erase a SATA disk from a PC, but SCSI? The problem with these things is that this opportunity may never present itself again. That's why I have a basement full of DEC stuff BTW.
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The traditional scrapper/reseller way to "erase" the disks is to drill a few holes into the platters. Doesn't matter what type of disk, they all work with that method. Though, in the day, I dealt with mainly government and financial institutions selling their old servers. Probably the typical resellers now aren't that paranoid.
 
Go for it! I have a 200 4/233. It's a good machine, mine is running Tru64 with an extra external disk shelf. If it doesn't come with a hard disk then I would recommend purchasing SCSI2SD or the newer ZuluSCSI.
 
One of the main considerations might be whether it is local to you and if you can pickup it for free, or if you have to pay for shipping.

I have an AlphaServer 800 that I haven't powered on in a long enough time that I should think about find a new owner for it. It might have the
21164/500 MHz CPU, and probably at least 512MB RAM, I'd have to take a look. But at 18"H 9"W 26"D and around 62LB, it might be expensive to ship.
 
g4ugm said:
I would say the problem with AlphaServers is that their PSUs are aging, also main board caps. I would say they can be challenging...
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All of my pizzabox Alphas have required or are waiting for PSU work, yeah. I think for some of them projects exist to adapt ATX PSUs.
 
Buying an alphastation 200 4/233 in China costs around $300+, so this should be a good price. Alpha's machine is quite fun and can be installed with Windows NT, even Windows 2000 Preview, TruUnix, and more. In terms of playability, I think it is second only to SGI's RISC workstation
It's best to ask the seller to confirm again before buying that the power supply is working and can enter the system. The power supply of old machines is indeed more prone to problems
 
Thanks to all for the advice and info. I'm really close to grabbing it, but the only thing giving me pause is licensing.

I read VSI's Community License dropped support for Alpha. I haven't done a ton of research yet on the Tru64 side of things, but my understanding is you need license PAKs for that too. I also haven't seen many 'sky is falling' posts, so maybe it's fine?

Is there a practical way to get these systems running on the hardware, or is hunting for license PAKs a large part of the hobby?

Note: I'm not asking for details about illegally licensing software. I just want to know if licensing is an uphill battle.
 
johnnycontrario said:
Thanks to all for the advice and info. I'm really close to grabbing it, but the only thing giving me pause is licensing.

I read VSI's Community License dropped support for Alpha. I haven't done a ton of research yet on the Tru64 side of things, but my understanding is you need license PAKs for that too. I also haven't seen many 'sky is falling' posts, so maybe it's fine?
Click to expand...
I don't know a lot about the Tru64 side either, but from what I remember reading, it's worse than the VMS situation. There (AFAIK) never was a hobbyist program from DEC/Compaq/HP for Tru64 that I heard of. I think the people that are running it either shared old PAKs or there was some sort of blanket PAK that was distributed. Hopefully someone has a better idea.

johnnycontrario said:
Is there a practical way to get these systems running on the hardware, or is hunting for license PAKs a large part of the hobby?

Note: I'm not asking for details about illegally licensing software. I just want to know if licensing is an uphill battle.
Click to expand...

The situation right now for Alpha (and Itanium) PAKs is pretty dire. If you weren't a member of VSI's Community License Program before April 1st (2024) then you're pretty much screwed. The current year's PAKs were scheduled to expire August 31st (I think) and VSI was supposed to post a final set of CLP PAKs on their service portal before that. I don't know if that happened. I know of at least one person in the CLP that asked about it but no response was ever given. If you join the CLP now all you get is a VMDK for a virtual machine with an x86 install and the PAKs for that - which won't work with Alpha or Itanium.

You can look for people selling PAKs (Ebay, etc) but be aware that PAKs that came from DEC/Compaq/HP will not work for VSI's versions of OpenVMS and vice versa. They have different PRODUCER codes. The only other way is to go the pirate route with the hacked codes - again those are for DEC/Compaq/HP versions of OpenVMS and will not work for VSI's version.

There are other version of Unix-like O/S that will work on an Alpha if you want to go that route. NetBSD, I believe is one.
 
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reinhardtjh said:
I don't know a lot about the Tru64 side either, but from what I remember reading, it's worse than the VMS situation. There (AFAIK) never was a hobbyist program from DEC/Compaq/HP for Tru64 that I heard of. I think the people that are running it either shared old PAKs or there was some sort of blanket PAK that was distributed. Hopefully someone has a better idea.
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Actually there was - "True 64 enthusiasts" I think it was called. I had one CD set, but left it behind (stupid 45 year old me .....)

found a link: https://www.hpcwire.com/1999/11/12/compaq-offers-tru64-unix-license-to-non-commercial-users/
 
Thanks. That's some food for thought. I think I'll play with some emulators this weekend to see what I can learn.

Does it even make sense to run more recent versions of VMS or UNIX on such an early Alpha? Would more contemporary versions be more appropriate? I don't know if running old versions makes licensing any simpler.
 
i will say that the licensing limitations for vms (vax and alpha) and tru64/digital unix are well known and have their own workarounds, but due to forum rules i can't go into detail. just know that if you buy hardware you will not be left in the cold. now, if you're a completionist and insist on original licenses... that's another thing and i don't think anyone can help you there :D
 
johnnycontrario said:
Thanks. That's some food for thought. I think I'll play with some emulators this weekend to see what I can learn.

Does it even make sense to run more recent versions of VMS or UNIX on such an early Alpha? Would more contemporary versions be more appropriate? I don't know if running old versions makes licensing any simpler.
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Old versions with Alpha OpenVMS won't help. The PAK licenses came into use with VAX/VMS V5.0 and there wasn't a version for the Alpha until much later. It started as V1.0 for Alpha, but then the next version was merged and became V6.0 OpenVMS for VAX and Alpha (the code wasn't merged, just the name and functionality). With a VAX you can go back to VAX/VMS V4.7 and avoid the license problem - except if you want DECnet which required a patch tape to enable. I don't think UCX (TCP/IP) was available for V4.x either.
 
hush said:
i will say that the licensing limitations for vms (vax and alpha) and tru64/digital unix are well known and have their own workarounds, but due to forum rules i can't go into detail. just know that if you buy hardware you will not be left in the cold. now, if you're a completionist and insist on original licenses... that's another thing and i don't think anyone can help you there :D
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This makes me feel a lot better about it. I'm not above workarounds if there are no better options.

I had some fun with axpbox for a few minutes and I think playing with the real thing will be fun. I messaged the seller to find out what they mean by "tested". I'm guessing it means that the panel lights come on and it doesn't catch fire lol.
 
Yeah if nothing else you can run NetBSD, OpenBSD is also an option though it may be unusably slow due to advanced security protections enabled on everything (it's not as fast as NetBSD on e.g. my AlphaServer 800). NetBSD is also easier to crossbuild packages for.
 
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