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Apple II Diskette Drives My shipping Saga continues

Jimmy

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2012
Messages
554
Location
Fort Walton Beach, Fl
I purchased two Apple floppy diskette drives on eBay recently from zekesboutique in Fairmont Virginia. The drives are sold “as is”, I say what the heck I probably can make one working drive from the two.

My mailman knocks on my door and hands me this package and says whatever in inside is sliding around and making clanking noises.

When I open the package it’s the two apple disk drives placed in a large flat rate box from the Postage Service. It contains the two disk drives and two flimsy plastic bags, that I assume at one time the disks were in but were not when they were delivered. The box is 3 ½ inches longer, 2 inches taller and ½ inch wider than the drives. There is no packing material other than the two flimsy plastic bags.

I pick up one of the drives and it rattles with lose parts inside; I admit I am no expert on apple floppy diskette drives but even I know they do not rattle when you pick one up.

I contacted the seller, more than a little unhappy with my recent experience with shipping monitors, he politely tells me they as sold “as is” and his hands are tied. So according to his reasoning if you bought an antique vase from him and he places in in a box several inches two big for the base and was delivered in pieces, well it was so “as it”.

He says they were adequately packed when they left his shop. When I informed him the postage worker probably made a record of the package contents sliding around and possible damage and would probably sign an affidavit he will not respond.

I opened up the drive that rattled and the flywheel was off the spindle. I have no idea if it was jarred lose during shipping or was off before he sold them to me. I would think it would take quite a jolt to knock a flywheel loose.

Here are some pictures of the box just as it was opened and some of me measuring the open space in the box.

I am sure it will be a useless gesture but I do plan on filing a complaint with eBay and PayPal, maybe it will help his next buyer.

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Stone

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Joined
Nov 3, 2009
Messages
12,814
Location
South Jersey, USA
Jimmy, I thought you knew quite well that 'as is' on eBay means... 'I tested it and it doesn't work at all'! Well, I'm sure you do now. If you see something on eBay that is being sold 'as is or for parts' you'll be lucky if there are even any parts that can be scavanged from it. You can take pure garbage that you know is totally disfunctional and sell it there 'as is' and get away with it. Just collect the insurance and forget about it. That's all you're gonna' get anyway and anything else is just a waste of time and energy and not worth the hassle.
 

KC9UDX

Space Commander
Joined
Jan 27, 2014
Messages
7,468
Location
Lutenblag
I recently got an Apple ][plus from an eBay seller. The machine was shipped in a thin box slightly larger than the case with some cardboard and loose paper inside. The lid was not attached, and just bouncing around inside the box. There were screws in the bottom of the box.

Somehow, it didn't incur any damage, and, aside from the repairs I had to do because someone who shouldn't be opening things tried to repair it, it is in great shape.
 

barythrin

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2005
Messages
6,256
Location
Texas
That definitely sucks. Let us know how it goes (just out of curiosity sake). I think the point would be were they in that condition prior to shipping or not but I guess the seller didn't see that as a valid response.. although I don't suppose you were lucky enough to insure them? Unfortunate hassle all around.
 

Jimmy

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2012
Messages
554
Location
Fort Walton Beach, Fl
What do they say the paid for lesssons are the one best learned.

It was really not a lot of money, I do not think I would have been upset if they had been packed decently and were in pieces when I got them. What got to me was he did not, he could have stuffed them with newspaper to fill in the cracks.

The next time I am looking for an item I will just post it in the forum.

Lesson well learned.
 

SomeGuy

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2013
Messages
4,143
Location
Marietta, GA
I don't see how "as is" frees the seller from incompetent packaging. Otherwise everyone selling "as is" would be sending stuff through the mail wrapped only in a garbage bag. And then shrugging it off when you receive a shredded sheet of plastic and some metal shards.

Now, you might have to prove that the damage was due to shipping. Were the exterior of the cases not scratched and dented from all of that? Negative feedback if nothing else.
 

Stone

10k Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2009
Messages
12,814
Location
South Jersey, USA
I don't see how "as is" frees the seller from incompetent packaging. Otherwise everyone selling "as is" would be sending stuff through the mail wrapped only in a garbage bag.
Then you don't understand or haven't thoroughly read through eBay's definitions, terms and conditions.
 

AichEss

Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2011
Messages
20
Location
Middle Earth (Arkansas)
eBay has a problem solving procedure all set up and ready to be used. That is part of where the 10% of the sale and shipping price goes.

I've been on both sides of the process. I feel that it favors the buyer more than the seller and it is just made for sellers like the one you are dealing with.

Keep the discussion objective and eBay will be on your side.
What do they say the paid for lesssons are the one best learned.

It was really not a lot of money, I do not think I would have been upset if they had been packed decently and were in pieces when I got them. What got to me was he did not, he could have stuffed them with newspaper to fill in the cracks.

The next time I am looking for an item I will just post it in the forum.

Lesson well learned.
 

Stone

10k Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2009
Messages
12,814
Location
South Jersey, USA
What a douchebag. He could've at least rolled up some paper to work as cushioning - doesn't take a genius.
While you're quite correct it does require a modicum of intelligence and some eBay sellers lack even that! I've gotten destroyed packages on eBay that could have been better packed if a squirrel had done the work. No problem -- I just collect the refund or insurance and move on to the next deal. Anything else is only madness. :)
 

SpidersWeb

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2012
Messages
2,697
Location
New Zealand
No problem -- I just collect the refund or insurance and move on to the next deal. Anything else is only madness. :)

Yeah for sure. It's good that ebay has those kinds of options. With our local site, "bad feedback" tends to be the only thing you can do.
 

wesleyfurr

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2009
Messages
606
Location
Virginia, USA
It's one thing to sell something as-is, it's quite another to package something so poorly that there's no way it could arrive safely. I would certainly expect ebay to side with you on this one...hope that's how it turns out.

I once bought a 3.5" SCSI hard drive on ebay...the nitwit that shipped it put it in an oatmeal box (thin walls and not much extra space to begin with) and surrounded it with newspaper. By the time it got to me, the newspaper was flat and worthless as packing material and the box was totally floppy. Yes, and the drive wasn't even in an ESD bag. Yeesh...

Wesley
 

KC9UDX

Space Commander
Joined
Jan 27, 2014
Messages
7,468
Location
Lutenblag
I recently received some TTL chips that were packaged in a sandwich bag surrounded by charged packing peanuts. Fortunately, they are TTL!
 

GottaLottaStuff

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 6, 2011
Messages
637
Location
Central Virginia, USA
The two plastic bags were probably filled with air when they started the journey. That's the new environmentally safe packing material. Anything heavy just pops them. My 128D was in a box full of that crap and it popped the whole works.
 

1944GPW

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2011
Messages
631
Location
Brisbane, Australia
Sorry to hear about your Disk ][ packaging. I can relate to that! I had a blinkenlights core memory PDP-11/05 shipped from the USA to Australia a few years ago. Weighing about 25kg, it arrived wrapped in a piece of cardboard... yep:huh:. No FRAGILE stickers, just ones that said 'HEAVY' and they were applied locally. This is what it looked like when I picked it up from the Post Office, they obligingly wheeled it out from the back office in a shoppng trolley for me. Some slight damage (still being repaired) but to be honest I was just glad that the seller would even consider posting it overseas, so I was happy for that.
PDP11_05_as_it_arrived_2.jpg

PDP11_05_as_it_arrived.jpg

Steve
 

Jimmy

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2012
Messages
554
Location
Fort Walton Beach, Fl
I think the guy could have just thrown them across the floor and then picked the drives up and shipped them to me and they would not have been in any worse shape. The two bags that were in the package look like the ones you use to bag apple or other fruit at the super market. When you place the drives in the bags they do not fully cover the drives.
 

Drken

Experienced Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2009
Messages
306
Location
Charlotte NC
Hi Jimmy - Sorry to hear your tale of woe from eBay. I recommend you immediately file with eBay under the "Not as described" and see if you can get a refund. Of course, you will have to send the items back to the seller and that is where you will loose money.

Because an item is sold "as is" does not eliminate the responsibility of the seller to package it properly and ship it insured. The item remains the responsbility of the sender until it arrives at your location, so if they shipped it without insurance, it is their loss. Again, file with eBay/PayPal. When eBay tells you to send it back to the seller, balk like hell and eBay will send you a prepaid return shipping label so that you are not out the $$. (Most folks don't realize this, and obviously eBay does its best to hide the fact that they will pick up the return shipping, but not too many times.)

You may try to avoid the eBay/return shipping hassle altogether if the package was insured and go directly to your local USPS office with everything - box, packing materials, contents - and file an insurance claim yourself. Be prepared to show them a receipt you printed from PayPal as proof of your payment and the value of the items.

The only other thing you can do is leave negative feedback. (I have no participated in eBay's feedback joke for close to 2 years now, so I'm not sure how it works any longer. Last I knew, you could leave negative for a seller but a seller can not leave negative for a buyer.)

The problem with eBay is that most folks are there to try and nail a deal-of-the-century. Everyone wants the world for as cheap as possible. But consider this: a cheap deal that turns out to be a bust is money lost (as you found out) and that loss must be incorporated into the final cost of the eventual working item you wind up with. E.g., the final true cost of the working disk drive you eventually wind up with will be not the total cost of THAT drive but also the money lost on this deal. That's your final cost of the disk drive you wind up with. Thus, it is not always the best idea to go as cheap as possible.

You can avoid most of these hassles (but not entirely all of them) by recognizing a few things. First, it costs money to package properly. There are the costs of packing materials - which are NOT cheap - and eBay and PayPal fees (those are the "handling fees' portion of S&H) and of course the shipping agent's fees (USPS, UPS or FedEx fees). So when someone is advertising S&H fees that are obviously so far below the actual cost, you better know that they are either incorporating all those costs into the cost of the item or they will be chintzing on packing materials &/or shipping costs. Example: sending an Apple Monochrome Monitor and charging $8 S&H; that doesn't even cover the costs of the shipper let alone packing materials & eBay/PayPal handling fees. So make sure the S&H charged is reasonable. Second, review the seller's feedback and look specifically for negatives and even more specifically, patterns of reasons for those negatives. Third, as someone else already stated here, "as is" means "I know its not working but I don't want to say that because I want to maximize the amount I get for this junk." Always (ALWAYS) assume "as is" = "not working". Period. Finally before making the purchase, ask the seller exactly how it will be packaged to be shipped. Do that via eBay's messaging system so that there is a record of it. Make sure that there will be a minimum of 2" packing materials between the item and the container. Ask what the packing materials consist of - packing peanuts, bubblewrap, paper, a combination of some/all?

Again, sorry to hear about your eBay woes - unfortunately, that is the growing norm of eBay.

Ken
www.Apple2Online.com
webstore: http://drkenb.blujay.com
 

Keatah

Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2011
Messages
45
Packaging materials can be totally free. Use the local newspaper, fill shopping bags with that. Use foam from previously received items. Ask neighbors for leftovers. It just takes a little effort to prepare the materials. For bonus points you can drop-kick test your package prior to shipping.
 
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