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Apple II SCSI Card does not automatically boot on some apples.

george

Experienced Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2011
Messages
410
Hello. Has anybody investigated why an Apple II SCSI Card with rev.C (and previous) ROM does not automatically boot when plugged into a non-enhanced //e or apple clone, e.g. requires PR#7 or C700G (for slot 7 of course) to boot? Initially I thought it must be some incompatibility or deliberate protection with clone roms but when I discovered the same issue with an old non-enhanced original apple //e I was puzzled. The card (and I've tried with two different cards of the same type) successfully boots on enhanced //e and //GS. Using 65SC02 instead of 6502 does not change anything in the described behavior of the scsi card.
 
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MattCarp

Experienced Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2003
Messages
279
Location
Atlanta, Georgia (USA)
hmm… I was just attempting a SCSI disk seth pom my non-enhanced IIe.

I'm stuck at the step before you - I don't have an Apple SCSI utility disk, so I'm not able to partition and format my drive. I do have the Apple SCSI test disk (it's a copy, not the original Apple disk), but when I try to test my card, I receive an error. When I start the test, the screen clears, then prints (almost immediately): "Loader: Prodos error #45". I think this means "volume not mounted". I think this relates back to the fact that I haven't set up the hard disk with my Apple II yet.

Here's my configuration:

Aux - 80 col / 64k
SL1 - Apple Parallel Card (670-0021)
SL2 - Super Serial II (670-8020-A)
SL3 - empty
SL4 - Apple II SCSI card (607-0291-C)
SL5 - empty
SL6 - Apple 3.5 Floppy Disk Interface Card (603-9107-A)
SL7 - Apple 5.25 Drive Controller (655-0101-D)

The hard disk is a Quantum 1.2GB FBTMS 655 - 0394. It's in a Sun 411 hard disk enclosure, with a terminator attached on the second SCSI plug.

George, if you'd be willing to send me a copy of your 5.25" Apple SCSI Utilities Disk, I'd be happy to copy and return it, then try and confirm your experience. (I have that disk in 3.5" format, but I don't have a disk drive to read it.)

-Matt
 

HoJoPo

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2012
Messages
774
Location
Northern Nevada
The Apple ][ autostart ROM looks for the ROM signature of the disk ][ controller to find bootable slots (the same code used on the ][ (with language card), ][ plus and unenhanced //e). The enhanced //e and IIgs have a more intelligent autostart routine, that doesn't require the same inital code as used on the disk ][.
 

george

Experienced Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2011
Messages
410
hmm… I was just attempting a SCSI disk seth pom my non-enhanced IIe.

I'm stuck at the step before you - I don't have an Apple SCSI utility disk, so I'm not able to partition and format my drive. I do have the Apple SCSI test disk (it's a copy, not the original Apple disk), but when I try to test my card, I receive an error. When I start the test, the screen clears, then prints (almost immediately): "Loader: Prodos error #45". I think this means "volume not mounted". I think this relates back to the fact that I haven't set up the hard disk with my Apple II yet.

Here's my configuration:

Aux - 80 col / 64k
SL1 - Apple Parallel Card (670-0021)
SL2 - Super Serial II (670-8020-A)
SL3 - empty
SL4 - Apple II SCSI card (607-0291-C)
SL5 - empty
SL6 - Apple 3.5 Floppy Disk Interface Card (603-9107-A)
SL7 - Apple 5.25 Drive Controller (655-0101-D)

The hard disk is a Quantum 1.2GB FBTMS 655 - 0394. It's in a Sun 411 hard disk enclosure, with a terminator attached on the second SCSI plug.

George, if you'd be willing to send me a copy of your 5.25" Apple SCSI Utilities Disk, I'd be happy to copy and return it, then try and confirm your experience. (I have that disk in 3.5" format, but I don't have a disk drive to read it.)

-Matt

You could transfer the 5.25" image from this archive with ADTPRO and try it:
http://mirrors.apple2.org.za/ftp.apple.asimov.net/images/hardware/storage/disk/apple_scsi/Apple%20II%20SCSI%20Card.zip
 

george

Experienced Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2011
Messages
410
The Apple ][ autostart ROM looks for the ROM signature of the disk ][ controller to find bootable slots (the same code used on the ][ (with language card), ][ plus and unenhanced //e). The enhanced //e and IIgs have a more intelligent autostart routine, that doesn't require the same inital code as used on the disk ][.
And this signature is not present in the A2 SCSI card ROM? I guess it consists of a few bytes maybe at the beginning of the ROM code?
 

MattCarp

Experienced Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2003
Messages
279
Location
Atlanta, Georgia (USA)
And this signature is not present in the A2 SCSI card ROM? I guess it consists of a few bytes maybe at the beginning of the ROM code?

From some googling, I've found that the ROMs on the slot card need the following bytes:

$Cn01 = $20
$Cn03 = $00
$Cn05 = $03
$Cn07 = $3C

Where n is the slot number (1 - 7)

Here are the main references I've found:

http://apple2.boldt.ca/?page=til/tn.udsk.002
http://support.apple.com/kb/TA46244?viewlocale=en_US

You confirm this with this BASIC code: PRINT PEEK($Cn01), ($Cn03), ($Cn05), ($Cn07) [note- you'll get decimal answers. Also, I had to enter the decimal equivalents, the Apple would complain if I used hex numbers]. What I found is that my 5.25" controller matched this, but both the 3.5" controller and the SCSI card had $00 at the 4th at the $Cn07 address.

So, George, it looks like we need to enhance our IIe's. But I have this question - once the IIe is enhanced, what will the boot sequence in my IIe be? Does it stop at drive 1 of the first disk controller?

Consider my case, where I have the 5.25" controller in slot 7, the 3.5" controller in slot 6, and the SCSI in slot 4. It appears that booting doesn't proceed to the second disk drive, nor second controller. Can someone post a reference to the Apple II startup sequence? A good description is eluding me...
 

george

Experienced Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2011
Messages
410
In your case the execution is transferred to the firmware of the DISKII which will wait forever to boot from DRIVE1. Had it been with a more intelligent firmware like one on the SCSI card it would have transferred control to the next lower priority card's firmware if for some reason no SCSI bootable device was found.
 

MattCarp

Experienced Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2003
Messages
279
Location
Atlanta, Georgia (USA)
In your case the execution is transferred to the firmware of the DISKII which will wait forever to boot from DRIVE1. Had it been with a more intelligent firmware like one on the SCSI card it would have transferred control to the next lower priority card's firmware if for some reason no SCSI bootable device was found.

Ok - thanks. This makes sense. I suppose that in an enhanced IIe, it will attempt to boot from a block device with $00 at $Cn07. Based on your comment, if a bootable media doesn't exist, it'll bounce down to the next highest slot's block device. This implies that I would want my SCSI first, my Uni 3.5 second, then my 5.25" controller (since it loop forever). I suppose the "better" 5.25" ROM would be the Apple II Universal Controller, but I gather that that card is pretty rare.
 

george

Experienced Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2011
Messages
410
Ok - thanks. This makes sense. I suppose that in an enhanced IIe, it will attempt to boot from a block device with $00 at $Cn07. Based on your comment, if a bootable media doesn't exist, it'll bounce down to the next highest slot's block device. This implies that I would want my SCSI first, my Uni 3.5 second, then my 5.25" controller (since it loop forever). I suppose the "better" 5.25" ROM would be the Apple II Universal Controller, but I gather that that card is pretty rare.

Many programs assume, e.g. require the DISKII controller to be accessible at slot 6 address space...
 
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