C65 in eBay...OMG!

[ClassicHasClass]

This 65 has a particularly important distinction, though: it's still working (for whatever values of "working" these prototypes ever did). The font is a little weird; the ones I've seen used the regular PETSCII font, and the end of the rainbow bars was more or less smoothly diagonal instead of this bar graphic character.

 

[KenEG]

Let's remember. How many Commodore 64 users were there?

We all looked forward to the C128 and some bought it and it was a great disappointment to everyone. It was an awesome machine, but almost no one took advantage of its best features. So everyone that didn't have it thought it was just an awkward almost-C64.

But then the C65 rumours came about. That was the dream machine everyone wanted. Every 64 user who read the specs of the C65 wanted one, badly. We passed on Amigas because we waited for the C65. We waited and waited and...

If everyone had been a PC user at that time and rumours came about an 8GHz 80486 based machine with SVGA graphics with 24 bit colour (remember that this is back when computers were something to be passionate about, they weren't same-ol commodities), would you be talking about insane IBM cloneheads? Of course not, because in retrospect it's not absurd to think AT clones are the thing to have.

I actually moved straight from the VIC 20 to a C128 in September of 1985 when it first came out. It was a bit disappointing that so few software developers took advantage of the advanced features. I do remember one of the Ultima's did use some of the features. I remember much less disk access. I really liked the 80 coulmn mode as I did quite a bit of wordprocessing and published a user's group newletter.

 

[Unknown_K]

There are people currently developing a C65 clone so if you really want to use a C65 that is the one to look for. I guess if you are a Commodore BASIC GURU then playing with a working C65 would be fun, otherwise its just a rarity that collects dust. Most of the C65's out there are missing chips that are unobtanium so at least this one is complete. It made sense to keep the C64 platform alive in the 80's because while it was a gaming machine it could also be used for home office and it was cheap (a 286 was $1600+).

The C128 was best used as a GEOS machine and for playing standard C64 games. I have my C128 setup with a mouse, 512K RAM expansion, and dual 1571 drives with a monitor that works in normal mode and 80 column. Since it is setup I let my C64/C64cs collect dust. I don't have a use for the C65 since there is no software for it, but it does look nice.

 

[vwestlife]

In 1990-1991 Commodore was also working on what was supposed to be the Amiga 300, a new low-cost Amiga to be priced below the 500. But they kept adding more and more features to it, until it ended up costing more than the 500, so they renamed it the Amiga 600. This is all well-known history. But nobody ever explains why this happened. Was it to avoid competing with the C65?

 

[Xacalite]

In 1990-1991 Commodore was also working on what was supposed to be the Amiga 300, a new low-cost Amiga to be priced below the 500. But they kept adding more and more features to it, until it ended up costing more than the 500, so they renamed it the Amiga 600. This is all well-known history. But nobody ever explains why this happened. Was it to avoid competing with the C65?

Amiga 600 was more expensive than the 500? Really?
I always thought A600 was pretty much a cost-reduced A500.
In the early 90s, the product placement was like this: C64 (low-end) - A500 (middle-class) - A3000 (high-end).
As the technology progressed, they intended for this: A600 (low-end) - A1200 (middle-class) - A4000 (high-end).
At this point, it was clear that 8-bit was at dead-end, it simply didn't make sense to invest into the C64 line.

 

[KC9UDX]

If anything, the C65, like the GS in it's intended form proved that 8 bit machines were still viable, and a threat to the more expensive architectures.
C65 would've utterly destroyed A500 sales.

 

[Chuck(G)]

It depends upon what you're doing. Games? Maybe so.

But serious application software? I wonder.. A friend at the time was peddling an orbital mechanics engineering tool. It was deployed on the PC AT+ and the Amiga. I never once heard him express interest in getting the package on the C64.

 

[KC9UDX]

There was the whole"games machine" stigma.

True no one by that time would have developed something large for the C64. But they could have considered the C128, and no one did. Where was the market?

 

[Caluser2000]

If anything, the C65, like the GS in it's intended form proved that 8 bit machines were still viable, and a threat to the more expensive architectures.
C65 would've utterly destroyed A500 sales.

I personally wouldn't think so. The GS went in to production the C65 didn't.
C64s were used for other things besides gaming.

 

[KC9UDX]

I personally wouldn't think so. The GS went in to production the C65 didn't.
C64s were used for other things besides gaming.

But the IIGS didn't run as fast as it should have. If it had, a lot less Macs would have sold. It would have ran circles around them.

 

[Chuck(G)]

True no one by that time would have developed something large for the C64. But they could have considered the C128, and no one did. Where was the market?

I don't believe that the C128 came with a hard disk standard, did it? For my friend's application, you needed one.

 

[Unknown_K]

I don't believe that the C128 came with a hard disk standard, did it? For my friend's application, you needed one.

No hard drives even as an option for the C128.

 

[KC9UDX]

No hard drives even as an option for the C128.

I'm pretty sure the Lt. Kernal came out about the same time as the 128. But you could connect a D9060 to a Vic-20, if you were determined. If applications had been released that required them, there would have been more. Yes, chicken and egg, but that was the whole story of the 128 anyway.

 

[vwestlife]

I personally wouldn't think so. The GS went in to production the C65 didn't.
C64s were used for other things besides gaming.

Also the IIGS came out in 1986 rather than 1991!

Were there any 8-bit home computers released after 1988 that were actually a success? The SAM Coupe (1989), Amstrad CPC+ series (1990), and MSX Turbo R series (1991) were failures.

 

[KC9UDX]

I don't believe that the C128 came with a hard disk standard, did it? For my friend's application, you needed one.

Wasn't HPIB a standard? It didn't come with it but it was available. ST-506 as well. Eventuality (maybe earlier, I don't know), SCSI and IDE.

 

[Xacalite]

Also the IIGS came out in 1986 rather than 1991!

Were there any 8-bit home computers released after 1988 that were actually a success? The SAM Coupe (1989), Amstrad CPC+ series (1990), and MSX Turbo R series (1991) were failures.

That's exactly the point!
In 1986, there were expensive PC and 68000 machines at one end, and very limited 8-bit stuff at the other end. So there was some room for 8/16-bit computers like IIGS.
But around 1990, the PC&68000 class became so cheap that hardly anybody was interested in anything below.
Yes, those who already owned 8-bit gear did continue playing with them in the 90s, but who was still purchasing such stuff brand-new?

 

[Chuck(G)]

The contention that an 8 bit CPU can run rings around what amounts to a 16-or-32-bit CPU on a 16-bit bus for general applications, I think, is misguided. Going back to my example, computations in my friend's application were done in double-precision floating point (64 bit FP words). Surely you're not going to tell me that a 6502 can beat a 68K or even an 80286 in that setting?

If so, I'd like to see some solid benchmark data.

 

[krebizfan]

That's exactly the point!
In 1986, there were expensive PC and 68000 machines at one end, and very limited 8-bit stuff at the other end. So there was some room for 8/16-bit computers like IIGS.
But around 1990, the PC&68000 class became so cheap that hardly anybody was interested in anything below.
Yes, those who already owned 8-bit gear did continue playing with them in the 90s, but who was still purchasing such stuff brand-new?

The Amstrad PCW line continued having respectable volume until the mid-90s. Not exactly great systems, even by the standards of CP/M word processors, but just enough functionality to do the assigned task while being inexpensive.

Amstrad's Plus line was priced much higher where the similarly priced systems in the US would have 286 or 386SX, monitor, and hard drive. Failure was nearly certain. There was probably a window to bring in very cheap modernized 8-bit systems in 1990 but by 1995 those would be all going to surplus vendors. Commodore's slow decision making process was not suited for handling a market nearing a major transition.

 

[Xacalite]

There was probably a window to bring in very cheap modernized 8-bit systems in 1990 but by 1995 those would be all going to surplus vendors.

Not 1995, more like 1992 - that was when IIGS was discontinued.
In the 90s, 8-bit was completely obsolete, for me it's still hard to believe they managed to keep C64 in production until 1994 - but I guess that was because it required no new investments, so it was possible to keep the price notably below A600, making it somewhat attractive for the Third World or xUSSR.

Of course, it was somewhat different with specialized machines: PCW was still alive as it was considered a typewriter rather than a computer, and there were countless embedded 8-bit systems...

 

[vwestlife]

Not 1995, more like 1992 - that was when IIGS was discontinued.
In the 90s, 8-bit was completely obsolete, for me it's still hard to believe they managed to keep C64 in production until 1994 - but I guess that was because it required no new investments, so it was possible to keep the price notably below A600, making it somewhat attractive for the Third World or xUSSR.

Towards the end really the only reason the C64 remained in production was to help use up their inventory of old parts. For example that's why they switched from the C64C case back to the older "breadbin" case, and mismatched colors were frequent. The motherboards came from the C64GS after that braindead idea of turning the C64 into a keyboardless game console in 1990 failed miserably (which maybe was the catalyst to pull the plug on the C65).