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Check it out...for the Commodore CBM.

dpatten

Experienced Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2006
Messages
285
Location
Melbourne, FL
Would it be a good idea to have an "I'm bidding on XXX on Ebay, please don't snipe me" list? The only reason I say this is that I realized that I looked at that Datasette and almost bid on it, not knowing that someone here was also bidding on it. It would certainly help to keep from running up prices on da 'Bay
 

alexkerhead

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Mar 13, 2006
Messages
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Location
Montgomery, AL USA
dpatten said:
Would it be a good idea to have an "I'm bidding on XXX on Ebay, please don't snipe me" list? The only reason I say this is that I realized that I looked at that Datasette and almost bid on it, not knowing that someone here was also bidding on it. It would certainly help to keep from running up prices on da 'Bay
Thanks for the tip.....
 

alltare

Experienced Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2004
Messages
106
dpatten said:
Would it be a good idea to have an "I'm bidding on XXX on Ebay, please don't snipe me" list? The only reason I say this is that I realized that I looked at that Datasette and almost bid on it, not knowing that someone here was also bidding on it. It would certainly help to keep from running up prices on da 'Bay

Not a good idea, for many reasons:

1) If you want it more than I do, then be sure that you bid enough to win it. Just because you spot an item first should not give you some kind of prior right to own it.

2) Besides, your scheme could technically be considered collusion, which is a federal offense.

3) As a buyer, you might wish to reduce competition and thereby reduce high bids, but you're forgetting that you would be screwing the seller by denying him the higher prices that would be the result of a FAIR auction.

4) I think your list would more likely be used by some readers to clue them in to items that they might otherwise not have noticed. Relying on the good will of an infinite number of total strangers simply invites disappointment. Your list could conceivably create more competition rather than less.
 

dpatten

Experienced Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2006
Messages
285
Location
Melbourne, FL
alltare said:
Not a good idea, for many reasons:

1) If you want it more than I do, then be sure that you bid enough to win it. Just because you spot an item first should not give you some kind of prior right to own it.

If I know someone here wants something and they have seen it first, I'm not gonna bid on it.


alltare said:
Besides, your scheme could technically be considered collusion, which is a federal offense.

You are joking, right? I'm sorry, but that is ridiculous. Collusion is a federal offense when referring to illegal acts. withholding a bid on an online auction is no different than not bidding on an in-person auction when you see your friend across the room is already bidding. Now, if two of us were working together to defraud an ebay seller on an Item that had already been sold, that would be collusion and wire fraud. Simply posting a message on an online bulletin board is not even close to illegal collusion.


alltare said:
As a buyer, you might wish to reduce competition and thereby reduce high bids, but you're forgetting that you would be screwing the seller by denying him the higher prices that would be the result of a FAIR auction.

My withholding a bid doesn't make an auction any less fair. I'll feel sorry for Ebay sellers when they stop bidding on their own items with newly opened screennames. Simply stated the market determines the worth of an Item. If I withhold a bid because I know a fellow collector is bidding on that item, that is a valid market force. Sellers don't have a right to maximum profits. Caveat Vendor. Capitalism 101

alltare said:
I think your list would more likely be used by some readers to clue them in to items that they might otherwise not have noticed. Relying on the good will of an infinite number of total strangers simply invites disappointment. Your list could conceivably create more competition rather than less.

Well, that's the choice you take when you associate with people. If an item is really rare and prime, you might not want to advertise it's existence. If its something common, like a commodore datasette then there is no sense paying more for it than it is otherwise worth.
 

carlsson

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I wonder if there is any board software that has optional profile fields for eBay username etc - they are very keen to have ICQ, AOL etc usernames. It could be enough if everyone who want to participate knew each other's eBay usernames so if you see an item that someone else you "know" has put a bid on, you can decide if you want to bid on it as well. I understand there is a great deal of anonymousity with eBay dealing, so maybe few people would want to give away who they are.
 

alexkerhead

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2006
Messages
839
Location
Montgomery, AL USA
Please everyone, I didn't want a arguement to insue.
Just drop it.
I just wanted a nice c2n datasette for my cbm, and wanted to let folks know I have it now.
That seller got a fair price for that unit.
 

Vlad

Moderator
Joined
Jul 3, 2005
Messages
2,241
Location
United States
Yes, Lets all play nice and get along. There is no need to argue over something like this. Nothing bad happened, so lets leave it at that.

Let keep this one big happy family :)

-Vlad
 

Erik

Site Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 27, 2003
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San Jose, CA
Like Vlad said, please let's play nice! :)

I'm not against the concept of people agreeing not to compete for items (I've been known to go there on a small scale) but I have to agree with Alltare that, in general, there is more of a downside than an upside in doing it publicly and formally.
 

alltare

Experienced Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2004
Messages
106
I'm sorry, dpatten, that you took offense at my message. Everything I said was as much to help you as it was to present a differing point of view. I'll word the following comments carefully so that we can avoid a big flame war, as I certainly am not trying to tell you what you can and can't do.

As to the collusion issue, it is very difficult to prove and to prosecute, but I do believe that what you initially proposed COULD TECHNICALLY be considered to be collusion (notice the 2 capitalized words). However, you are welcome to ignore my definition of the word, as it is simply my opinion. If you ask another person not to bid for the purpose of keeping the price down, that could be interpreted as such. But, you changed the parameters of the situation in your reply to my message. I agree that it is not collusion if you and a friend happen to be at the same auction, and you decide, without discussing it with your friend, not to bid on an item. There's obviously nothing wrong with that.

I think your opinion of ebay sellers is a bit lopsided. I have found the huge majority of ebayers to be honest people. As an honest seller myself, I can assure you that we're not all crooks, and I would advise you to report shill bids and other shenanigans to ebay whenever you spot them. That's what I do. Contrary to what you said, sellers DO have a right to maximize profits, as long as it's done fairly and legally, just as buyers have a right to restrict their bid amounts, as long as it's done in a fair and legal way. That's the true spirit of capitalism. If you, as a bidder, don't like the high bids on an item, whether they're shill bids or legitimate, then you always have the option of just walking away. You must remember that no one is forcing you to bid, and the seller only receives the money that you're willing to give him.

We aren't in complete disagreement. Your second-to-last sentence more or less rephrases what I said and makes my point: If an item is rare (meaning, I assume, that you really want it), you wouldn't want to attract attention to it, so you wouldn't advertise that you're bidding on it. That makes sense to me. Your last sentence is a statement of obvious common sense: Don't pay more than what it's worth. I'll not argue with either of those statements.

Anyway, I will certainly not object if you want to post a list of the items on which you're bidding- it certainly won't affect my bidding one way or the other, but I firmly believe that it will disadvantage you. To make it a bit simpler, may I suggest that you just make your ebay name public? Those who want to avoid stepping on your toes could simply go to ebay and see which items you're bidding on. No separate list required on this site. Likewise, other people could give their ebay IDs to you for the same purpose of mutual non-competition. I wish you the best of luck with ebay. Enough said.

dpatten said:
...withholding a bid on an online auction is no different than not bidding on an in-person auction when you see your friend across the room is already bidding. ...

... I'll feel sorry for Ebay sellers when they stop bidding on their own items with newly opened screennames. Simply stated the market determines the worth of an Item. If I withhold a bid because I know a fellow collector is bidding on that item, that is a valid market force. Sellers don't have a right to maximum profits. Caveat Vendor. Capitalism 101

... If an item is really rare and prime, you might not want to advertise it's existence. If its something common, like a commodore datasette then there is no sense paying more for it than it is otherwise worth.
 

Vlad

Moderator
Joined
Jul 3, 2005
Messages
2,241
Location
United States
I think we need to put this whole issue to rest. That goes for all of you, theres no need for this. We've all gotten along this far with out bringing eBay into this mess and I'm sure we can continue on with out doing it. Ok?

-Vlad
 

vbriel

Experienced Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Messages
332
Location
SoCal
I think I may still have 1 or 2 of these cassettes in my basement. I'll troll down there and have a look when I get a moment.

Vince
 
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