• Please review our updated Terms and Rules here

Floppy Drive on Tandy COCO3

irishmike

Experienced Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2006
Messages
331
Location
Overland Park, KS USA
Greetings:

I just acquired a floppy controller cartridge for my COCO3 project and want to connect my MSO drive unit to it. I was told (and may be misinformed) that this unit will work with my COCO3.

The cartridge is the Color Computer Controller. The cat number was x6-3022... the first number is missing as the cartridge has been serviced.

The drive unit has a strange connector on the back and I am hoping to make this unit work. I am posting pics of the drive unit and hope someone can help.

msofront.jpg


msoback.jpg


msocloseup.jpg


Thanks for any help with this.
 
Just found her on Wikipedia. Apparently this drive is for C64, Pet, C128 only. So the new question is, can the drives be used outside the box or modified for the COCO3? It looks like the connector in question is a IEEE 488. And according to Wikipedia it is a parallel interface. Where as the DIN plugs are the standard Commodore Serial interface types.

Really would like to use this device or trade for the drives I actually need perhaps.
 
Yup, 24-conductor GPIB.

I don't see why you couldn't use the drives in other applicatoins. However, note that they're single-sided.

I think this would be of more value to a Pet/C64/128 owner.
 
Yeah, that is kind of what I figured. I am not sure what drives will be compatible with my COCO3 that are not the "drives" that Tandy made for the COCO. I think I will probably make the MSD drive available for sale at some point in the near future. But I would offer that if someone sees this post and has a Tandy drive for COCO3, I am more than willing to trade for the right drives.

But I appreciate the knowledge.

I guess now, what would be a compatible drive or the proper drive for the COCO3? Is this a DSDD drive? And will any drive work that meets the DSDD? I am thinking that the controller I acquired is upgraded to handle 3.5 disks too.

Thanks for the help so far and any more ideas are welcome.
 
The CoCos use standard floppy drives (mostly), and there are no "smarts" inside the drive enclosures. Just powersupply and drive mechanism. The controller cartridges all feature a 34 pin card edge connector the same as found on the original IBM PC floppy controller cards.
IIRC, Disk Basic's standard format only uses 35 tracks, but the later controller cartridges fully support full 40 tracks, and OS-9 Level II uses 40 tracks natively.

The FD-502 controller & drive support double sided drives & media. More info is available over at coco3.com: 09/06/09: CoCo Disk Drives by admin, | Category: Peripherals

That page indicates that your controller is the original model, and uses an analog data seperator, and requires 12v. The 12v requirement limits its use to either a CoCo 1, or a Multi-Pak interface as the CoCo 2 & 3 do not supply 12v on the cartridge connector.

I hope that helps you out some. :)
__
Trevor
 
As Lord Moz suggested, using a FD-502 controller, any PC compatible drive can be interfaced to the CoCo. If the drive can be jumpered (or modded) to be DS0 instead DS1 and provide READY signal in pin 34, it'll work using the right cable (a PC one without twisting).

I've a combo unit with a 3.5" and 5.25" drives and they work flawlessly.
 
The Coco drives from radio shack were the FD series, and most software was SD/DD. The FD502 is a double sided version, but you had to use os9 or replace the disk controller rom to get to the second side. (And even then, the second side was usually accessed as a different drive number.)

I've got a couple of 360k Tandy drives from a 1000sx that should work fine.
Or I've got a tested and working FD-500 with controller,that I would be willing to trade if your drive is working.

Later,
dabone
 
Thanks all! I appreciate the help on this. I do have an FD series drive and a power supply (laptop style) that I can power the drive from (the power supply is from USB hard drive interface I have)... wow is my coco3 currently quite the Frankenstein machine as it is really just a mobo and thanks to my purchases,I now have a keyboard, but no case to speak of. I presume the firmware in the controller is upgraded since it was obviously modified at some point. I will have to see if the 12V issue comes up I suppose, worse case, I will still need the multipak (which I am still seeking).

@dabone: Are you interested in my MSD drive? As far as I know it works, but I have not personally ever tested it, but the fellow I bought it from is a very reliable guy who has never knowingly sold me (or anyone else) anything that doesn't work perfectly (he would tell you it doesn't work if it doesn't before you acquire it). So it is presumed working.

Anyhow, I am heading to our local PC recycling center later today, so I will poke around there a bit for some parts (as I normally do on Fridays).
 
Being I sold ya the hardware I'll help some... LOL! The cart was never upgraded. That cart came with 1 of 2 Western Digital Controllers, so 2 revisions. I had to crack her open to check which chip, and solder the gold plated leads on. Coco's are notorious for bad connections on the tin plated connector. Most people weren't smart enough to know to replace the connectors, but rather replaced the controller, thinking it died. Learned the trick from someone on a BBS years and years ago...

26-3022
This first model of CoCo floppy controller was packaged in a long cartridge, and was introduced for use with the original CoCo. It uses a WD1793 controller chip, which requires +12V DC. For this reason, a multi-pak interface (or other source of +12V) is required to utilize this controller with a CoCo 2 or CoCo 3. This controller also uses an analog data separator circuit, infamous for its inherent unreliability. However, this controller is the only one capable of being modified (though with considerable difficulty) to allow use with high-density 3.5" floppy drives. All subsequent controllers use the WD1773 controller chip, do not use the unreliable analog data separator, do not require +12V (so they will work with any CoCo model), and are capable of double-density operation only.

As for double sided, all you have to do is type the follow in disk basic. Doing such will allow you to also use both sides of a 3.5" diskette drive!! . If you wish to use a 3.5" diskette, but care less that it only single sided, then it will work without any custom pokes. To use more of the space, you must use the pokes provided below.


As noted, the command is DSKINI# (where # is 0-3, or 0-255 in RGBDOS)
Also, try this poke (DECB1.1, not 1.0)... POKE55456,68

If that works, you just doubled your storage on the 3.5" floppy. Also Try DSKINI3. You can POKE55456 with 65,66 or 68 to access the second side of drive 0, 1 and 2 respectively, as drive 3.

Other then that, i'm really really rusty. Haven't really played with coco's in years. Loaned my good one out, never was returned. Was a coco3 w/ multipack and lots of goodies. ;_;
I'll help best I can though. Also if you end up needing other drives, I have some 720k 5.25s that will need to be cleaned and aligned but should work. Also have 2 external cases, and third which is a 3.5" in a tape backup hosing.What was said earlier, is somewhat true. Most pc drives will work. What the catch all is, is the address of the floppy drive. If I recall correctly , you have to set DS1/DS2/DS3 etc on the drives themselves. Most older floppy drives will have jumpers so no biggie. The only catch, is that the drive is configurable. Most modern floppy drives lack this option.


One last thing, coco2/3's require soldering a wire to provide 12v to 1 pin that as left off. This allowed backwards compatibility to coco1 packs. Super easy to do btw.
If I recall correctly, if you look at the motherboard top side, at the connector 1 pin is not soldered (pack connector on the right side, downwards towards middle of the board). Double check this, its been forever. But that should be the 12v pin which is unused. Find a 12v source on the board, and solder a wire to it and that pin. Problem solved. I suggest joining a CoCo forums to double check this mod information. Link I had is dead now (gimmechips). I'm 90% sure its right but like I said been years, at least 7.

Some may bash that controller, but IMHO its the best available for Coco's. Reason being, it requires little effort for using 3.5/5.25/8" drives. One I sold you is the exact controller I used to use on my CoCo3 years ago that i did the 12v mod to!
Read this, and you'll see whats required with luck to get other drives working on the other controllers!
http://www.doki-doki.net/~lamune/computers/coco/hd-floppy/


And last but not least, all radio shack coco stuff starts with 26-xxxx usually. So the first number would be a 2. :)
 
Last edited:
Since my last post was so massive I'll start another....

That external drive would work. You will need to either figure out the pinout of the rear connector, or open her up and attach a ribbon cable directly to the drives. I would pick the latter if possible.

Provided they are set to the right addresses, and you have some way to power them, should work fine! I really do suggest using 3.5" drives. Much more dependable, less to store, and cheaper media to boot! =)
Big tip - To use 3.5's easily, find a long pc floppy cable, and use the motherboard end on the floppy drive, and middle shugart connector on the controller. :thumbsup:. If you run into read errors, try shielding the cable. Thats the only flaw using this analog controller. Its touchy to certain wavelengths of RF interference. Nothing shielding couldn't solve.


If you still run into problems let me know. I still have a coco3 FD502 floppy pack , as well as the J&M.
 
Last edited:
So, let me get this straight. You can use the box if you bypass the internal Commodore-interface controller and replace the single-sided drives with double-sided ones and fabricate a cable to interface to the CoCo controller.

In other words, you get to keep the box and the drive PSU? Seems pretty odd to essentially destroy a unique piece of Commodore gear to get something that is essentially nothing more than an empty box with power supply.

Please be patient--I'm trying to understand.
 
Well from the picture, it appears the port may come off. Like a ribbon cable attached port. If so they im sure u can tuck it somewhere inside safely not ruining it at all, and still be able to use it as a dumb external drive cage. Or perhaps run the cable along the outside edge and carefully put the cover back on so it doesn't ruin/pinch the cable. In no way do I want him to destroy anything, but if it currently has no use, and like I said can be reused with harm, then why not? Plus I keep hinting to use 3.5s instead LOL.

In any case I do have external cages that I offered to sell him, and fd501 made by radio shack for this purpose, but if he already has something he rather use... :)
 
Last edited:
That external drive would work. You will need to either figure out the pinout of the rear connector, or open her up and attach a ribbon cable directly to the drives. I would pick the latter if possible

That external drive is another computer. It communicates either on the parallel or serial bus using the iec protocol. Most commodore drives have a 6502 cpu and at least 2k of ram.
Made them more intelligent, but SLOW... The round connectors are serial iec connectors and the larger one is Ieee-448. The larger one was for use on PET computers, and the smaller ones for the later computers.

I'll trade a Working fd500 and a coco2 (power switch is broken, it's always on) for that msd drive.

Later,
dabone
 
I'm interested in that coco2 if he isnt. Mine does not work at all, and have all these extras I cant use .... I have a supposedly good board, missing the psu and power transistor... Plus he needs a case, which I already have! I'm pretty sure the casings were all interchangeable. Perhaps we can all work out a group trade rofl.

like a round robin! I get the coco2 motherboard w/psu and keyboard, he keeps the housing, and ill send him an tandy external drive housing and a 3.5" drive,.. Just an idea... Both us get working units, and you get the drive! =)
 
Last edited:
Found the info on the pinout of the cart slot connector: Connect 12v to pin 2. If I recall correctly you can tap 12v off the power switch. :)

viewercocopinout.png
 
Probably easier to get a multi-pack interface (MPI) instead of hacking around inside the CoCo3.
Yeah, they can run some $$, but decent CoCo3's are not as plentiful and cheap as they once were.
I have a few 512KB CoCo3's in my stash, as well as a few FD-502's, half-dozen dual-drive setups, and a few MPIs.
One can NEVER have enough CoCo gear!

Take a peek at Roger Taylor's hardware cartridge (SD/MMC) or cloud9tech.com's IDE / SCSI controllers (I have the IDE and SCSI from C9).
With drivewire and a PC, you can use a PC to store virtual floppy disks, and bypass FDD's altogether - Roger Taylors ROM does that, also. CoCoNet I think it's called?
 
As noted, the command is DSKINI# (where # is 0-3, or 0-255 in RGBDOS)
Also, try this poke (DECB1.1, not 1.0)... POKE55456,68

I realize this is an older thread, but, I do believe the DSKINI command is used to format a disk in a floppy drive or one of the 'partitions' in an RGB-DOS/HDB-DOS hard disk.

Also, CoCo 2's and 3's do not have 12v anywhere on the motherboard (a fact I was recently reminded of when I was looking to add a 12vdc fan inside the case of one on my CoCo3's). That's why with the early disk controllers an MPI was necessary. Some people have brought 12v up from the floppy drive itself, but, getting a later controller or an MPI makes more sense, IMHO...
 
I sent him a coco2 with drivewire installed on a internal rom mod, and a coconet cart for the 2 or 3. And the serial cable needed.
I've got a homemade clone of the MicroSD pak, and it works well. And new ones are now in production.

Later,
dabone
 
Back
Top