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Gateway Solo 2100 Laptop battery issue

Chr$

Chr$

Experienced Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2021
Messages
155
Location
Saxony, Germany
This is really a general battery query, but is from a 1997 Gateway 2000 laptop with a P133 CPU so sort of fits here too.

This is the internals of the battery pack. It's made up of 4 pairs of cells. I had to replace 2 horrible leaky cells, as you can see. I then manually charged each of the cell pairs up to 4.08ish volts each, ensuring that they all matched as well as possible and that the voltage of each of the 4 pairs was stable over time (it was, they were all rock solid at 4.08 - 4.11v). When I first plugged it into the laptop it showed 0% charge, which is odd, as they were all charged and measuring a little over 16v in total. Over time it showed 1%, 2% etc, up to about 8% and then all of a sudden 100%. So I tried to run the laptop on the battery and it got down to about 93% (indicated) and then shut down - it was only good for 2 - 3 minutes in total. I removed it, measured and it was still showing just over 16v at the main output connectors.

I let it charge in the laptop overnight and it's pretty much the same story. It has 16v+ according to my multi meter but shows as completely empty and doesn't have enough power to run the laptop for more than 20 seconds or so.

Is there anything I can do about it? Does the BMS need a reset somehow? Should I run all the cell pairs down to empty (3v or so) and then try to charge it in the laptop again. Should I simply replace all the cells for new ones.

Happy to hear suggestions and happy new year.
 

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With any rechargeable battery, you shouldn't mix cells of different capacities, they won't calibrate properly and can cause other issues. Especially since that pack is so old, the original cells are likely shot either way, especially again since 2 were leaking. The rest won't be far behind. You should replace the rest of the cells for sure.

As for calibration, on old Mac laptops, tools exist to force the packs to fully discharge/recharge which kills NiMH memory effect that can cause poor life on otherwise good cells. Not sure about a tool for Windows. Only PC laptop I've got with a working NiMH battery has a utility in the BIOS to do it (ThinkPad i1260), but many won't I'm sure.
 
Thanks for your response. They are all Li-ion 18650 cells. The label on the outside of the pack says 2600mAh. I must admit I don't know the capacity of the 2 replacements cells (they are what I had available, scavenged).

There are just basic power management options on the BIOS, I don't think anything advanced.

Looks like new cells might be the only way then, but I do I really want to throw so much money at an old laptop! I'd also have to invest in a spot welding machine to make safe connections.
 
Li-Ion shouldn't need calibration, nor should they leak, hmm. Issue is likely to be the other cells then.
 
Just to test in a more controlled environment out of the laptop, I wired up 2x 12v car headlight bulbs in parallel to the 16v output and observed... they got dim very fast! It seems the 2 newer cells hold their charge but the 6 old red ones drop down very quickly and within seconds the total voltage supplied by the pack is 9v. And then in time they sort of recover and balance out, but obviously they've had it. Just for fun, I think I'll disconnect them from the BMS, freeze them overnight and then let them thaw. I read that can help, but I'm not really expecting it to.
 
Don’t think freezing does much for Li-Ion, but yeah, they’re shot so I guess it wouldn’t hurt. Just remember to let it fully thaw before using them. I tried freezing an old PowerBook battery (Nickel Cadmium) that held a small amount of voltage once, but it didn’t bring it back at all really. Don’t think I let it thaw long enough though.
 
No, freezing did nothing. So I went to the effort of checking a load of salvaged 18650 cells, found 8 that were all around 2000mAh, charged them all and built a new battery pack out of them (even bought a spot welder for the job). Put it all back together and it's still the same (so far)! Initially it showed no voltage at the output pins but a decent 16.66v where the battery pack solders to the first BMS PCB. After plugging it into the laptop it started showing the correct voltage at the output pins, but so far it thinks it's 0% charged.

BMS issue perhaps? I must be missing some vital info. I suppose all I can do now is leave it plugged in to the laptop and charging, even though all the cells were pre-charged.
 
Sounds like BMS to me. Many need to be reset somehow because they really didn’t want people rebuilding packs, don’t know how to do this though.
 
I had hoped it would be primitive and not have anything designed to render it useless so that you had to originally buy a new battery. Oh well, I suppose I'll have to read up and see if I can somehow make it work.
 
CHANS battery rebuild has a way of resetting them somehow, I wish they'd post instructions on their website on how to do it, would be a great resource for us collectors. If they ever went out of business (which they likely will someday, it's run by 2 people. When they retire, it'll probably end), then unless someone else springs up, no one will be able to.
 
No two battery packs are the same, it's not possible to write a guide on how to rebuild a pack with a BMS chip and have it apply to everything.

BMS ICs in battery packs get super specialized and obscured to prevent them from being messed with. The companies that made the packs want to reduce their liability as much as possible.

Some BMS ICs have internal RAM and EEPROM that store configuration information and things like charge cycles. Some of those ICs will just die if the RAM contents are lost, and must be reprogrammed to work again. Likewise, they sometimes have a bit of code running to count the charge cycles and disable the pack if that count is exceeded, or if another anomaly is detected.

If there was an external bit of EEPROM on the BMS board, you could try dumping it and see what's going on. If it's a proprietary BMS with internal memory, you'll have to reverse engineer the protocol to communicate with it.
 
They say they’ve got specific proprietary software that does it, but yeah, I’m sure that the process is quite different for each pack. Their website mentioned reprogramming, so it looks like that’s the approach they take. Really sad that battery packs are all designed like this.
 
It's because of stringent regulation around lithium batteries, and because nobody wants to be sued if something goes wrong. Or if they are sued, they can say they tried to make a safe product that was made unsafe by someone monkeying with it.

Having lockouts and methods to disable the pack in the event of faults, protects the average consumer from it going on fire or exploding, most of the time anyway.

Not to say it still isn't bad for us, who have to keep these things going decades after their intended lifespan. It's a headache.
 
The cells failed or the BMS circuitry? I'll do some large pics of mine, I don't think any of the chips are RAM and there certainly isn't an EPROM. I'm currently trying to charge it in the laptop until the charge light extinguishes and then repeating the procedure. So far it hasn't made a difference. I do also have another identical BMS to try.
 
GiGaBiTe said:
It's because of stringent regulation around lithium batteries, and because nobody wants to be sued if something goes wrong. Or if they are sued, they can say they tried to make a safe product that was made unsafe by someone monkeying with it.

Having lockouts and methods to disable the pack in the event of faults, protects the average consumer from it going on fire or exploding, most of the time anyway.

Not to say it still isn't bad for us, who have to keep these things going decades after their intended lifespan. It's a headache.
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While true, I'm pretty sure that greed plays just as big of a role. Can't have people fixing existing batteries and then selling them at lower prices than manufacturer-new ones..
 
3lectr1c said:
While true, I'm pretty sure that greed plays just as big of a role. Can't have people fixing existing batteries and then selling them at lower prices than manufacturer-new ones..
Click to expand...

That's actually illegal under the Lanham act. You can get away with making knockoffs all day, but the moment it has the OEM written anywhere on it, lawyers will start making excited legal noises. One good example are Chinese counterfeiters making counterfeit Apple battery packs and chargers with Apple's logo on them. Apple uses ICE to seize and destroy such shipments all the time.

But moreso, it opens the OEM to huge liability, a 3rd party using your trademark/trade dress. If a restuffed battery with their mark on it goes on fire and causes property loss or death, they'll be on the hook for something they had nothing to do with.
 
GiGaBiTe said:
That's actually illegal under the Lanham act. You can get away with making knockoffs all day, but the moment it has the OEM written anywhere on it, lawyers will start making excited legal noises.
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Does that include batteries that are openly sold as rebuilt, not “New OEM”?
 
Brian Todd said:
Did you try your car bulb test on the salvaged cells as well Chris?
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No, I wanted something a little more scientific so bought a ZV2L3 device, which drains each battery using 2 power resistors and keeps an eye on the total discharge down to a specified voltage level. It probably isn't entirely accurate but it certainly seems good at finding the obvious duds.... (the original batteries measured as low as single-digit mAh :S ). The 2 green ones I originally salvaged were about 400 mAh each, so also rubbish.

Meh to that mAh!

By the way, the OEM for the battery is Sanyo, model 4UR18650-2.
 
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