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Getting A Bootable DOS 2.11 Diskette

ElectroArc

ElectroArc

Experienced Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2023
Messages
51
Location
Georgia, United States of America
Hello everyone,

I've been trying to create a bootable DOS diskette for my Morrow Pivot II, but nothing seems to work.

I've been trying to use these two images:
(Morrow Pivot DOS) https://winworldpc.com/download/13c2a959-c3b4-c2bf-c2b4-11c3a6c2bb2a
(Osborn 3 DOS) https://winworldpc.com/download/3648c39e-5856-5211-c3a4-c2a90f7054ef

Neither of them work for me though. Writing the disks results in unbootable images on both the windows 98 pc that made them and the Pivot II the images are intended for.

I don't understand what could be wrong here.

With Pivot DOS, when attempting to boot on the Windows 98 machine, the diskette will spin up, and then stop with an infinitely blinking cursor on screen. On the Pivot II, it states that the diskette is not bootable.

Osborn 3 DOS is is basically the same, other than the fact that the Pivot II will infinitely read it, spinning forever.

Does anyone know what I could be doing wrong here? I burned the Pivot DOS image using ImageDisk, which would make it an exact replica of the original diskette, which means it should work perfectly, correct? I also can't get WinImage 8.1 to work with the Osborn image, so I opted to just drag the files onto a formatted disk. WinImage seems to hate the 360k images I have, because all of them cause a page fault and make the application crash. I tried researching that issue, and nothing came up.

Also, does anyone happen to have their own image I could try? Any DOS variant for the Morrow Pivot, Osborn 3, or Zenith 171 should be virtually the same, as they're all the same computer.

Thanks for any help!
 
I forgot to mention that I tested WinImage with a DOS 3.11 image, and it worked on the 98 machine. But, unfortunately, it won't fit on a 360k diskette. Unless someone knows how to shave it down. I would still really prefer one of the original operating systems though.
 
Re Windows 98. Be aware that some DOS based floppy imaging software will not fully function within a DOS window. No, I do not have a list.

Also, if you are writing to a 360K floppy, ensure that a 360K drive is used. See [here].
 
I used samdisk to convert both the of IMD's to raw using

samdisk pivot.imd pivot.raw

It made a 360K disk image that my fdimage tool recognizes the boot sector of just fine. If you search around here you can find my fdimage program which can write the pivot.raw to disk using dos (fdimage.exe) or windows 9x (fdimagew.exe).
 
modem7 said:
Re Windows 98. Be aware that some DOS based floppy imaging software will not fully function within a DOS window. No, I do not have a list.

Also, if you are writing to a 360K floppy, ensure that a 360K drive is used. See [here].
Click to expand...
The drive I am using is a 360k drive. It's one I pulled from a spare Zenith 171 I have, so it should be 100% compatible with the drives in my Pivot II.

alank2 said:
I used samdisk to convert both the of IMD's to raw using

samdisk pivot.imd pivot.raw

It made a 360K disk image that my fdimage tool recognizes the boot sector of just fine. If you search around here you can find my fdimage program which can write the pivot.raw to disk using dos (fdimage.exe) or windows 9x (fdimagew.exe).
Click to expand...
Are those supposed to be file links? Because they're just text. Could you go into more detail on Samdisk? I've also downloaded fdimage 1.06 from your thread.
I'll get it on the 98 PC once my CD burner decides to start working with me again.

Chuck(G) said:
Have you tried this: https://vetusware.com/download/Microsoft MS-DOS 3.1 _Zenith Z-100PC OEM_ 3.1/?id=10477
Note that these are in 320K format, not 360K. Imagedisk should figure that out, however. Use a DSDD 360K drive and media.
Click to expand...
Would it just work like that? I'll give it a shot in a little bit too. I'll add that to the CD I'm fighting with.
 
Ok, I don't believe those two images have ever been tested, so thanks for testing them.

First, copying files on to a DOS disk will never make it bootable (well, almost never) because you have not copied the boot sector.

The Pivot and Osborn disks will NOT boot on IBM PC compatible computers, such as your Windows 98 machine.

Looking at the Pivot OEM disks, although they are 360k they use a non-standard interleave. I have no idea what would happen if an IBM PC style 1:1 interleave is used - which is all WinImage knows how to write.

The Osborn OEM is in a Winimage raw sector format. That is probably wrong, and may have omitted any sector interleave.

The Pivot OEM disks are in ImageDisk format. Use ImageDisk to write them. You will need to exit to DOS to use ImageDisk, as it can be unreliable running in a DOS window.

When using Imagedisk, make sure to set double-stepping to "off". As mentioned, only use a genuine 360k drive, not a 1.2mb drive.

If these Pivot images are actually any good, that SHOULD create a usable disk that will boot on a Pivot.

Edit: Except you have a Pivot II, not a Pivot. The Pivot II is, reportedly, IBM PC compatible and therefore will not run either of those images. Use a "vanilla" DOS such as MS-DOS 3.3 instead.
 
Last edited:
SomeGuy said:
Ok, I don't believe those two images have ever been tested, so thanks for testing them.

First, copying files on to a DOS disk will never make it bootable (well, almost never) because you have not copied the boot sector.

The Pivot and Osborn disks will NOT boot on IBM PC compatible computers, such as your Windows 98 machine.

Looking at the Pivot OEM disks, although they are 360k they use a non-standard interleave. I have no idea what would happen if an IBM PC style 1:1 interleave is used - which is all WinImage knows how to write.

The Osborn OEM is in a Winimage raw sector format. That is probably wrong, and may have omitted any sector interleave.

The Pivot OEM disks are in ImageDisk format. Use ImageDisk to write them. You will need to exit to DOS to use ImageDisk, as it can be unreliable running in a DOS window.

When using Imagedisk, make sure to set double-stepping to "off". As mentioned, only use a genuine 360k drive, not a 1.2mb drive.

If these Pivot images are actually any good, that SHOULD create a usable disk that will boot on a Pivot.

Edit: Except you have a Pivot II, not a Pivot. The Pivot II is, reportedly, IBM PC compatible and therefore will not run either of those images. Use a "vanilla" DOS such as MS-DOS 3.3 instead.
Click to expand...
Wait, I believe I figured out why they wouldn't work. I actually have the wrong computer.

I have a Morrow Pivot II, not a Morrow Pivot. The difference is the screen, which would make the original OS incompatible. I believe that would explain why the Morrow DOS isn't working. I got the version of New Word that comes with it to load and confirmed that, as half of the screen is cut off.

In addition, I made the foolish assumption that the Osborn 3 was based on the Pivot II like the Zenith 171, but that is incorrect. The Osborn 3 is based on the Pivot, so that OS is also incompatible.

I did, however, get a version of DOS 3.3 working!

It's surprised me with just how many games are compatible. The only one that I tried and wouldn't work was Castle Wolfenstein, but I think that may be because the DOS version is too new.

Would anyone happen to have Pivot II DOS, though? I'd prefer it if I had the original OEM OS for this computer.

Edit: I just realized you basically already said what I said. I should've read your whole post before replying.
 
I tried making a DOS 2.12 boot disk from a Compaq image, but I keep getting the error bad or missing Command Interpreter on both my 98 PC and the Pivot II. I'm pretty sure all Compaq machines were 100% IBM compatible because that was Compaq's whole deal.

Does anyone know how to fix this? And, I'm not the only one having this issue, right?

It's this one: https://winworldpc.com/download/40c2b9e2-80ba-4218-c39a-11c3a4e284a2
 
Have you cleaned the drive and lubed it yet? Maybe the head seek rail is crusty? I wouldn't say its the images till then... Would try to make sure I had a working drive first. Learned this hard way throughout the years, never assume drives work 100% before cleaning/lubing.
 
twolazy said:
Have you cleaned the drive and lubed it yet? Maybe the head seek rail is crusty? I wouldn't say its the images till then... Would try to make sure I had a working drive first. Learned this hard way throughout the years, never assume drives work 100% before cleaning/lubing.
Click to expand...
The drive mechanism is very peculiar, so I don't really have the ability to lube the head mechanism with my current methods (the whole head assembly is basically inside the motor: Adrian's Digital Basement repair video). I did, however, test all 3 drives not that long ago and found all 3 to be in perfect working order. This issue is only occurring with Compaq OEM 2.11 and 2.12 images. the 3.3 image I made still works perfectly fine.
 
That image should indeed work on any IBM PC or compatible. There does not appear to be anything wrong with it.

Since it gets as far as trying to load command.com, that suggests some kind of disk read error. What tool did you use to write it? If you used WinImage, try using WinImage's "verify" option.
 
SomeGuy said:
That image should indeed work on any IBM PC or compatible. There does not appear to be anything wrong with it.

Since it gets as far as trying to load command.com, that suggests some kind of disk read error. What tool did you use to write it? If you used WinImage, try using WinImage's "verify" option.
Click to expand...
I have been using Rawrite. Rawrite made the 3.3 disk perfectly fine, so I assumed it would do the same for others. I stopped using WinImage because of that page error, but I'll try again...

And it still doesn't work. WinImage states: This program has performed an illegal operation and will be shut down. If the problem persists, contact the program vendor.

Pressing details shows a message stating: WINIMAGE caused an invalid page fault in module WINIMAGE.EXE at 0167:00453f69.
Followed by a bunch of registers and bytes.

Taking a look at the disk's file system, I don't see anything wrong. Command.com is there, but still neither computer will load the image.
 
Unless otherwise instructed, rawrite doesn't know the difference between 8 and 9 sector/track formats. DOS 2.x was distributed widely as 8 sector (320K) diskettes as well as in 9 sector versions. But I've already said that earlier. The upshot of using a 9 sector format for an 8 sector image is that the first track always loads and reads fine and then everything falls apart. If you're using MSDOS to format the blanks, make sure that you use the /8 switch on the FORMAT command.

Or you can simply go ahead and tear your machines apart. :(
 
Chuck(G) said:
Unless otherwise instructed, rawrite doesn't know the difference between 8 and 9 sector/track formats. DOS 2.x was distributed widely as 8 sector (320K) diskettes as well as in 9 sector versions. But I've already said that earlier. The upshot of using a 9 sector format for an 8 sector image is that the first track always loads and reads fine and then everything falls apart. If you're using MSDOS to format the blanks, make sure that you use the /8 switch on the FORMAT command.

Or you can simply go ahead and tear your machines apart.
Click to expand...
All of the DOS 2.x releases on WinWorld appear to be 360k or other odd formats. Perhaps you are thinking of DOS 1.x? They all say they're 320K.

Rawrite also really doesn't like 8 sector disks as it can't figure out the sectors per track after a format. After formatting back to 360k, Rawrite will write to it perfectly fine.
 
It's your image. Just tried it on a P3 system and it doesn't load COMMAND.COM. I suspect there's something funny going on. Have you tried a plain old IBM PC-DOS 2.11 image yet?
 
Chuck(G) said:
It's your image. Just tried it on a P3 system and it doesn't load COMMAND.COM. I suspect there's something funny going on. Have you tried a plain old IBM PC-DOS 2.11 image yet?
Click to expand...
Is there an IBM PC-DOS 2.11? I can't seem to find it.

In the meantime, I got three other copies of DOS 2.x:
www.pcjs.org

COMPAQ MS-DOS 2.12

PCjs offers a variety of online machine emulators written in JavaScript. Run DOS, Windows, OS/2 and other vintage PC applications in a web browser on your desktop computer, iPhone, or iPad. An assortment of microcomputers, minicomputers, terminals, programmable calculators, and arcade machines...
www.pcjs.org www.pcjs.org
archive.org

COMPAQ Personal Computer: MS-DOS v2.12 Rev. B : Microsoft Corporation : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

COMPAQ Personal Computer - MS-DOS v2.12 Rev. B (101386-001)(Microsoft Corporation)(1984)dumped: 2018-12-12sha1sum:...
archive.org
archive.org

ms-dos 2.11 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

msdos211
archive.org

Both the Compaq ones from PCJS and Archive.org have the exact same issue with Command.com.

The 3rd link, also to Archive.org, has a more generic looking image. It isn't though. After booting, the computer states that it's a copy of DOS made for the AT&T 6300. Oddly enough, it just works. Why am I having so much trouble with Compaq images? Are they not actually 100% compatible?

I'll keep looking though, as I want a more generic version of DOS. I don't want to boot up my Pivot II and have it say AT&T 6300, as that just doesn't feel right.

Edit: I found IBM PC-DOS 2.10 here:
www.pcjs.org

IBM PC DOS 2.10

PCjs offers a variety of online machine emulators written in JavaScript. Run DOS, Windows, OS/2 and other vintage PC applications in a web browser on your desktop computer, iPhone, or iPad. An assortment of microcomputers, minicomputers, terminals, programmable calculators, and arcade machines...
www.pcjs.org www.pcjs.org
Trying it now...
 
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