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hardware or software?

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kbit

Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2011
Messages
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Location
canada
hi folks. just found this site and i happen to have a 1993 canon innova 486e model 25/120 desktop that a friend gave me years ago. it has a modified acer v6 motherboard {mine only has 3 simm slots vs 4 that all info i found says} so i pulled it out and it still booted but bad chksum. onboard battery still had power but one pin was corroded and soldered battery broke off. luckey it had ext bat connecters so no problem. upgraded cpu from 486sx @ 25mhz to 486dx2 @66mhz , original conner hdd 120mb to two newer drives { i just set chs to max for both as bios only goes to 504mb then fdisk,format fat16}, added a network card , added sb16 with ide for cd {only one onboard ide} added 36mb ram + 4mb onboard for 40mb total .
i loaded dos 6.22+win3.11 , loaded drivers , everything works like a dream, even go on the internet! my problem is i noticed that emm386 was not loaded and when i try {different trys at config} i keep getting one of three errors , #12, #3, #1 . so will i just have to go without network { at the net initialize is where i get errors} to use emm386? what little dos i know {could make simple boot disk with mouse is about where i`m at} doesn`t solve my problem. i enjoy breathing new life in to old computers { this is oldest that works} and just wish to have a real dos/win3.11 machine. i`m thinking it is software {memory,stacks, files?????} but i don`t quite understand enough about how to tweak config and autoexec.
thanks for any education!!
 
Welcome to the forums!

The bad checksum sounds like a hardware problem. I suggest you try the minimum memory that will work. Perhaps the sticks are not matched, it doesn't like one of them, or there is a problem with one, or you have them in the wrong slots. As for the EMM386 not loading, I suggest you post your config.sys and autoexec.bat here so we can make sure that's all OK.

Boot into DOS and skip win until you've got that sorted out. When putting together a machine, or trouble shooting, it is generally the best plan is to start with minimum configuration and add pieces (hardware or software) one element at a time.

PS: MS-DOS 6.2x has a wonderful information base built in. Type "help" or "help emm386" or similar and it will tell you everything you need to know. In fact almost all you need to know about DOS is in that file.
 
thanks i forgot about the help file! sorry , the bad chksum was only til i fixed the cmos battery, boots and saves to cmos fine now.
tomorrow i`ll get config and autoexec here {have to delete and rem my changes back to "normal" , go on network and i`ll come here on that machine . if i use auto on emm386 i get no errors but hangs in same spot.
 
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You have to configure EMM386 with something like this in CONFIG.SYS, if I remember (but I'll probably be doing this soon once I start using some DOS stuff again, very shortly):
DEVICE=HIMEM.SYS
DEVICE=EMM386.EXE RAM 4096

DOS=UMB,HIGH
FILES=32
BUFFERS=3
STACKS=16,512
Click to expand...
 
here`s the config file
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS
DOS=UMB, HIGH
REM DEVICE=C:\DOS\EMM386.EXE AUTO >>>>>>>>> it was on windows i changed to dos still same
SHELL=C:\DOS\COMMAND.COM C:\DOS /E:512 /P
DEVICE=C:\DOS\SETVER.EXE
DEVICE=C:\CTCM\CTCM.EXE
DEVICEHIGH=C:\CD\SBIDE.SYS /D:MSCD1 /P:1e8,11,3ee
DEVICE=C:\VIBRA16\DRV\VIBRA16.SYS /UNIT=0 /BLASTER=A:220 I:5 D:1 H:5
DEVICE=C:\VIBRA16\DRV\CTMMSYS.SYS
FILES=40
BUFFERS=50,0
LASTDRIVE=Z
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\IFSHLP.SYS
STACKS=9,256
INSTALL=C:\CTMOUSE\CTMOUSE.EXE

programs put most there, i added mouse, tried to add emm386 but won`t work. here`s the autoexec
C:\WINDOWS\net initialize
C:\WINDOWS\msdlc.exe
C:\WINDOWS\net start
set ieppp=C:\MSIE50
set pctcp=C:\MSIE50\pctcp.shv
SET SOUND=C:\VIBRA16
SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 H5 P330 T6
SET MIDI=SYNTH:1 MAP:E
C:\VIBRA16\DIAGNOSE /S
C:\VIBRA16\MIXERSET /P /Q
SET CTCM=C:\CTCM
C:\CTCM\CTCU /S /W=C:\WINDOWS
C:\DOS\SMARTDRV.EXE /X 2048 128
LH=C:\CD\MSCDEX.EXE /D:MSCD1 /L:E
@ECHO OFF
PROMPT $p$g
PATH C:\MSIE50;C:\WINDOWS;C:\DOS
SET TEMP=C:\DOS
the thing is, while it works good without emm386 there are programs that need it .
 
remove the " rem" from emm386 line - the reason its not loaded- and run memmaker. IIRC it'll give you a few options. You can save a bit of memory by changing the LASTDRIVE,FILES and BUFFERS if you want as well. There's a lot of conventional memory being used and this could be the real issue.
 
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kbit said:
here`s the config file
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS
DOS=UMB, HIGH
REM DEVICE=C:\DOS\EMM386.EXE AUTO >>>>>>>>> it was on windows i changed to dos still same
SHELL=C:\DOS\COMMAND.COM C:\DOS /E:512 /P
DEVICE=C:\DOS\SETVER.EXE
DEVICE=C:\CTCM\CTCM.EXE
DEVICEHIGH=C:\CD\SBIDE.SYS /D:MSCD1 /P:1e8,11,3ee
DEVICE=C:\VIBRA16\DRV\VIBRA16.SYS /UNIT=0 /BLASTER=A:220 I:5 D:1 H:5
DEVICE=C:\VIBRA16\DRV\CTMMSYS.SYS
FILES=40
BUFFERS=50,0
LASTDRIVE=Z
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\IFSHLP.SYS
STACKS=9,256
INSTALL=C:\CTMOUSE\CTMOUSE.EXE

programs put most there, i added mouse, tried to add emm386 but won`t work. here`s the autoexec
C:\WINDOWS\net initialize
C:\WINDOWS\msdlc.exe
C:\WINDOWS\net start
set ieppp=C:\MSIE50
set pctcp=C:\MSIE50\pctcp.shv
SET SOUND=C:\VIBRA16
SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 H5 P330 T6
SET MIDI=SYNTH:1 MAP:E
C:\VIBRA16\DIAGNOSE /S
C:\VIBRA16\MIXERSET /P /Q
SET CTCM=C:\CTCM
C:\CTCM\CTCU /S /W=C:\WINDOWS
C:\DOS\SMARTDRV.EXE /X 2048 128
LH=C:\CD\MSCDEX.EXE /D:MSCD1 /L:E
@ECHO OFF
PROMPT $p$g
PATH C:\MSIE50;C:\WINDOWS;C:\DOS
SET TEMP=C:\DOS
the thing is, while it works good without emm386 there are programs that need it .
Click to expand...

. . . also, try moving the 'EMM386.EXE' line up directly under 'HIMEM.SYS'
 
It may well be the only course of action is to set up a batch file to load different configurations on startup depending on what you intend to do. Not ideal but it was something old dos heads had to do. Ole Juul and a few others should be able to assist in this regard. There just isn't a "magic" configuration for Dos. Some folk used the likes of Quarterdecks Qemm for this very purpose.Another option was different boot disks with different boot setups.

Good effort though for getting as far as you have.
 
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yeah i know about rem ,it is only way computer starts! i moved line, changed stacks size {microsoft recom} best i can do is no errors but hang. might be bad memory but i seem to remember dos could be a b%^%%^h to get right. i don`t know about batch {i know what it is but never made one} i used the x switch to exclude where system memory is , guess i`ll have to learn how to use de b u g . i`ll just keep at it and reading suggestions here and trying to figure it out. { the fun part!!} i might uninstall msdlc as that seems to be where i hit the wall.
 
Do a google search for MemTest86, dump it to a disk and boot to it and run the memory through the test (I usually run it for about 12 or more hours).

This will tell you if you have a hardware issue with the RAM.

Also, try upping the Stacks to 16,256 to see if this helps.

Lastly, do a google search for JemmEX. It replaces both Himem.sys and EMM386 and in your case may help you narrow down the issue.
 
Are HIMEM.SYS and EMM386.EXE from the same version of DOS/WIN?

Which version of DOS BTW?

Have you tried single-stepping through the config.sys file ( F8 ) to confirm where it is hanging?
 
kbit said:
yeah i know about rem ,it is only way computer starts!
Click to expand...

"Rem" does not make a computer start or stop. It is short for "remark" and when placed at the beginning of a line in a batch file, prevents the line from executing.

but i seem to remember dos could be a b%^%%^h to get right
Click to expand...
Actually DOS is the simplest of operating systems. I think the problem you are having here relates to the fact that you are not starting from the beginning but rather trying to hack on what is obviously a very messy pair of files which you inherited.

As it stands now, you don't have EMM386.EXE in your config. Caluser2000 was kind enough to point that out to you. I suggest you do what he suggested and remove the "rem".

i`ll just keep at it and reading suggestions here and trying to figure it out.
Click to expand...
That's the way!

i might uninstall msdlc as that seems to be where i hit the wall.
Click to expand...

To unistall it, all you do is put "rem" at the beginning of the line. Like this:
Code: 
rem C:\WINDOWS\msdlc.exe

Good luck! :)
 
Ole Juul said:
"Rem" does not make a computer start or stop. It is short for "remark" and when placed at the beginning of a line in a batch file, prevents the line from executing.
Click to expand...

I am pretty sure he means the computer hangs when it tries to load EMM386, and removing EMM386 (adding the REM) is the only way to stop it freezing. At least this is the way I understood it.
 
If you have tried changing the stacks to STACKS=16,256 as already suggested and it didn't work or change the 3 error codes it is throwing, maybe the emm386.exe file is corrupt.
 
Christmas on a cracker, if I was trying to load that much **** on boot, I'd put a bullet in my head. That really was the time period where Creative Labs REALLY started to piss me off with all the device driver BS that left me going "for **** sake, just let me set it with jumpers"

The EMM386 issue could be an incompatible a20 handler. I'd be trying the various different flags on that line for it. I'd start with what's safe for 99% of VGA equipped machines.

device=c:\windows\emm386.exe auto ram /i=B000-B7FF

and work from there. I'd also strip out all the creative stuff (except perhaps the CD driver and CTCM - the latter ACTUALLY setting the hardware up) to see if any of that nonsense is conflicting.

Code: 
device=c:\windows\himem.sys
device=c:\windows\emm386.exe auto ram /i=B000-B7FF
dos=high,umb
files=40
buffers=30
stacks=9,256
lastdrive=z
device=c:\ctcm\ctcm.exe
devicehigh=c:\cd\sbide.sys /d:mscd0001 /p:1E8,11,3EE
devicehigh=c:\dos\setver.exe
devicehigh=c:\windows\ifshlp.sys
shell=c:\command.com /e:512 /p

The order you load things can also have an effect, which is why I swapped it around.

Likewise I'd gut the autoexec.bat way down... particularly the network driver stuff since that can conflict with all sorts of things.

Code: 
@echo off
prompt $p$g
path c:\;c:\dos;c:\windows
set ctcm=c:\ctcm
set sound=c:\vibra16
set blaster=a220 i5 d1 h5 p330 t6
set midi=synth:1 map:e
c:\vibra16\diagnose /s
c:\vibra16\mixerset /p /q
lh c:\cd\mscdex.exe /d:mscd0001 /l:e
lh /s c:\dos\smartdrv.exe 2048 256

If that works, start adding things back in one at a time. If it fails, start adding the emm386 switches. some of the ones to try:
nomovexbda
Prevents EMM386 from moving the extended BIOS data from conventional memory to upper memory.

altboot
Specifies that EMM386 use an alternate handler to restart your computer when you press CTRL+ALT+DEL. Use this switch only if your computer stops responding or exhibits other unusual behavior when EMM386 is loaded and you press CTRL+ALT+DEL.

... and if you've got windows installed, even with 6.22, use the copies from the windows directory, not the DOS one...

Oh, and does the networking card have a boot rom? Is it enabled? Boot rom + EMM386 == /FAIL/ -- I've not once in twenty years gotten in to work without endless fiddling. Disable the boot rom on the network card if present; if nothing else it will give you more HMA area to map RAM into.

Oh, and if you can pull the output from "mem /d" and a screencap of MSD's (since you've got 6.2/3.11 it should be in there) memory map, we could get a better idea what's mapping where. Using both tools you can usually by hand beat the ever living tar out of what "memmaker" does.
 
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Oh, additional advice... if you're worried about memory use you could try using shsucdx instead of mscdex. It uses a third the RAM and does pretty much the same job.
http://adoxa.110mb.com/shsucdx/index.html

You also were loading ctmouse as a device driver -- that actually makes it consume MORE memory which is why I'd load it in the autoexec.bat -- and remember ctmouse will automatically load itself into the HMA for you, as will shsucdx -- so you don't need to manually loadhigh those. (in the case of the latter, saying loadhigh actually forces it low!)

It may also help to run himem.sys with the /VERBOSE option and emm386.exe with it's VERBOSE as well, to give you more information of what it's doing before it fails.
 
Of course you could also just forget about HIMEM.SYS and EMM386.EXE which together take up enough memory to run a word processor, and just use JEMMEX.EXE. The config.sys line would look something like this:
Code: 
device= c:\directory\jemmex.exe noems
 
sorry for the confusion guys, let me clear it up. i learned a little about dos by using win98 a few years ago {used to configure machine to run dos programs without win98} which was fairly simple as i was using a hybred dos 7/6.22 but it was fun. the dos and machine almost configured it self and if i screwed up too bad i could rem everything and just load win98.{ as any dos user will tell you , i love rem} so i am well aware of the rem function.
now , i have a top of the line desktop circa 1993 that i just am playing with , with 6.22/win3.11{ that is a clean install about a week ago}, everything works perfect { everything loads and works as shown in config and autoexec } but i noticed some programs saying not enough memory and upon looking i found emm386 was not loaded or even in config , so i added line { in many permeations } and it {it=emm386} won`t work in this configuration . it works fine without network { no boot rom on card} but it will not work with network . last few times tried memmaker it failed {worked on previous occasions} so will retry other ram too{ have many sticks , onboard is 70ns but i think it is fpm and i might have edo in slots} and a memtest { never tried on 72pin simm} i already downloaded shsucdx so will try that too. thanks for the replies guys{i believe this is old fashioned cluster computing= knocking heads,ha,ha}
 
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