MikeS
Veteran Member
I'm trying to copy/archive some 3.5" DD disks that appear to be formatted as 360K; no problem reading them, but I can't figure out how to format a target disk on a 3.5" HD drive.
Help?
Help?
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How to copy a 360K 3.5" DD disk
- Thread starter MikeS
- Start date
Chuck(G)
25k Member
Um, what exactly makes this a 360K drive? Is it 62.5 tpi or just single-sided. If single-sided, IMD should be just the ticket.
Stone
10k Member
If you use Diskcopy with an unformatted Target disk it will format it with the source's format before copying the tracks to the target.
MikeS
Veteran Member
Not sure. I tried to Winimage them and when it complained I checked the (commercial) disks and they are 360K; didn't investigate further. Ashamed to admit that my Imagedisk system died a while ago and I haven't got around to resurrecting it; guess it's time.
Ah, I thought I remembered that you had to separately format the target disk first; will try that although it doesn't solve the archiving problem.
Thanks, guys!
Stone
10k Member
Nope, It gives the message... Formatting while copying... which is DOS speak for... Formatting before copying.
krebizfan
Veteran Member
What system are the disks for? The 360kB commercial disks I can think of would be for either IBM JX or Atari ST. If it isn't for them, the disk type may be incorrectly identified and copying or imaging may not yield accurate results.
SomeGuy
Veteran Member
It could easily be a "mis-formatted" 720k disk, as it was easy to do so on unconfigured 8088 machines with a 720k drive slapped on.
However, if this is a commercial title, I would be suspicious it might be copy protected. In which case they probably just stuck the same image on both 360k and 720k disks.
What is the title of the software?
However, if this is a commercial title, I would be suspicious it might be copy protected. In which case they probably just stuck the same image on both 360k and 720k disks.
What is the title of the software?
MikeS
Veteran Member
"Normal" 360K format: 40/9/DS. No problem with IMD but I was curious why Winimage couldn't create an image since both DOS and Windows have no problem reading the disks.
BTW, is it just the BIOS that determines what formats are valid with a given drive and a blank disk?
Nope; it gives the message "Drivetypes or Diskette types not compatible."
I suspect that it is indeed a poor man's copy protection; they're Gold Medallion Software disks that I'm archiving for someone who's collecting all the old DOS games.
krebizfan
Veteran Member
There are alternate diskcopy programs that aren't restricted to the standard supported drive formats.
I suggest taking a tool like Anadisk to find out what the actual disk format is. Could be a very tricky thing where the disk format lies about what is on the disk.
I suggest taking a tool like Anadisk to find out what the actual disk format is. Could be a very tricky thing where the disk format lies about what is on the disk.
MikeS
Veteran Member
Could be, but Anadisk and IMD both see it as a normal 360K (5.25) disk; as you'd expect, IMD just uses the first 40 tracks and both the original and a copy made from the image read fine with no issues.
krebizfan
Veteran Member
I think http://users.telenet.be/jbosman/applications.html has a diskcopy and formatting program that is supposed to be able to handle a disk like that described.
MikeS
Veteran Member
Thanks for that, but if I'm going to use DOS anyway I might as well stick with the familiar ImageDisk.
Stone
10k Member
If you use Diskcopy with an unformatted Target disk it will format it with the source's format before copying the tracks to the target.
...It gives the message... Formatting while copying... which is DOS speak for... Formatting before copying.
Ahhh, you must be using the wrong DOS version.
We're talking about vintage computers, here.
Try v3.3 and you'll see what I mean.
You can even hear the disk formatting before the diskcopy takes place as it steps much slower.
MikeS
Veteran Member
I'll see if one of my boxes still has 3.3 but I got the job done so I'm not going to install 3.3 just to find out.Ahhh, you must be using the wrong DOS version.
We're talking about vintage computers, here.
Try v3.3 and you'll see what I mean.
You can even hear the disk formatting before the diskcopy takes place as it steps much slower.
But thanks all for the various suggestions!
Stone
10k Member
Install 3.3?
What's that all about?
Just insert a 3.3 floppy and turn the machine on.
How much easier does it need to get?
Chuck(G)
25k Member
Mike, most likely what you've got is a 720K disk that someone copied a 360K disk to. Back in the day, it was easy. I even offered a program to do it--COPYQM. You could do a "blind" sector for sector copy or a "conversion" copy that would expand the FAT and rewrite the boot sector to conform with the new medium.
Any program that ignores the information in the boot sector and which does a straight sector-for-sector copy will get you there. Linux dd will do it, as probably will rawread and rawwrite.
Honestly, I don't know what all of this DOS 3.3 stuff is about.
Anyone remember when Zenith sold their CP/M boxes with an 80 cylinder drive, but used only the first 40 cylinders for disks? I've got of few of those in my rogue's gallery.
Any program that ignores the information in the boot sector and which does a straight sector-for-sector copy will get you there. Linux dd will do it, as probably will rawread and rawwrite.
Honestly, I don't know what all of this DOS 3.3 stuff is about.
Anyone remember when Zenith sold their CP/M boxes with an 80 cylinder drive, but used only the first 40 cylinders for disks? I've got of few of those in my rogue's gallery.
MikeS
Veteran Member
Yup, that's exactly what these are, either as a production shortcut or a crude form of copy protection; they do have 'official' Gold Medallion Software labels, so they were purposely made that way.
It's not a problem. I just was under the impression that one could format and use 40 tracks of a a 3.5" DD disk as a 5.25" disk equivalent without any special software, using something like DRIVPARM or DEVICE=, but I guess the BIOS setting precludes that for 'normal' programs that don't bypass it.
MikeS
Veteran Member
If I can even easily find a copy of 3.3 it'll almost certainly be on a 5 1/4" disk; then I'll have to find a box that has both drive sizes, etc. etc., not easy around here.Install 3.3?
What's that all about?
Just insert a 3.3 floppy and turn the machine on.
How much easier does it need to get?
Gimme a break!
Anyway, problem solved; this may have inspired me to finally rebuild my disk copy/archive/edit system, especially since I've been working with CP/M and 8" diskettes lately.
Thanks again!
Stone
10k Member
Kudos, Chuck... I used COPYQM quite extensively in the 1990s. It was one of my main go to programs along with TeleDisk. I didn't know you back then but it's never to late to thank someone for a great piece of work so I will. BTW, I've been using AnaDisk, mostly in the last 10 years, mainly to reproduce some non-DOS floppies on a DOS machine and it works wonderfully well for that. In fact I have found all your products that I have used over the years to be quite superior. Thanks, again.