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IBM 5162 / 5170 and XUB

Malc

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How many of you guys own an IBM 5162 and / or IBM 5170 with the Original IBM Bios fitted and are using the XTIDE Universal Bios with non IBM IDE Floppy / Hard drive / Combo controller with no problems ??.

I own both the 5162 and 5170 but my 5170 is out of commission at the mo with a dead PSU, Some time ago i replaced the Original IBM Bios ROMS in my 5162 and 5170 with AMI bios ROMS because the original MFM drives were dead and i needed to use IDE or CF with a none IBM IDE / Floppy controller, The issues i had using the original IBM bios with the XUB were the known 161 error because i changed the controller and corruption with IDE drives or CF, Using the AMI Bios with the XUB i had zero problems.

Rolling the clock forward I have been playing with my 5162 testing a few SIMM's (another thread), I have the Original IBM Bios ROM's fitted, Some old generic IDE / Floppy Combo controller, CF and the XUB r602 in a lo-tech ROM board, I have had thus far no problems, No 161 or Corruption with an IDE drive or CF, The only difference i can think of is the XUB revision since i tested some time ago but i can't remember what revision it was at the time i tested, Basically i'm trying to figure out whats changed since then and now, I think i will start by going back some revisions of the XUB to start with, It's strange i'm not getting the 161 error now though.
 

maxtherabbit

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AFAIK XUB r602 works fine with the IBM AT BIOS. I think the incompatibility was fixed several revisions ago. As far as the 601/162 error: the BIOS reads certain I/O ports to look for a combo card signature. If your clone card provides the correct data at these ports, it will not trigger the error.
 

Malc

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My bad, I should have said " It's strange i'm not getting the 601 error now though. ", I am using one of the controllers now that i used back then and got the 601 error. I wasn't aware that the problem with the XUB and IBM 5162 / 5170 Bios had been fixed, I don't recall reading anything official from the XTIDE Bios team or anyone else about it.
 

modem7

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I certainly don't keep up to date with the XTIDE Universal BIOS. I remember hearing about an 'R602' a while back and thinking that I must find out what that is. I see no reference to it at [here] (a page that includes, "Last modified 4 years ago"). What is the story about 'R602' (which at face value, appears to have had 602 revisions) ?
 

Malc

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I certainly don't keep up to date with the XTIDE Universal BIOS. I remember hearing about an 'R602' a while back and thinking that I must find out what that is. I see no reference to it at [here] (a page that includes, "Last modified 4 years ago"). What is the story about 'R602' (which at face value, appears to have had 602 revisions) ?

You can view the changes of the various revisions [ Here ], Perhaps you could try R602 in your 5170 when you get time and see if you get the 601 error and corruption, I'm going to dig out some controllers and test again in my 5162 later.
 

maxtherabbit

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You can view the changes of the various revisions [ Here ], Perhaps you could try R602 in your 5170 when you get time and see if you get the 601 error and corruption, I'm going to dig out some controllers and test again in my 5162 later.

the 601 error is totally unrelated to the XUB - it is a result of physically removing the MFM combo card
 

Malc

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...I'm going to dig out some controllers and test again in my 5162 later.
I dug out 3 IDE / Floppy Combo controllers and 2 old IDE / Floppy controllers, The 3 Combo's worked fine, I got no errors and no corruption that i noticed in the short test i did, One of the old IDE / Floppy controllers worked fine with no errors or corruption that i noticed, The other old IDE / Floppy controller may have gone faulty, I got diskette failure and hard drive failure, I never went further with that one. All these controllers i tried before with the IBM Bios and XUB and got Errors and corruption, :confused:
 

modem7

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Perhaps you could try R602 in your 5170 when you get time ...
After almost week of 'no hobbies due to other matters', I got around to this. First, I got R602 up and running on an XT-IDE Rev 2 card that was fitted to an IBM 5160. I then moved that card into my early IBM 5170. No go, with, or without IBM's combo card fitted. The XUB startup screen correctly reports the CF, but access attempts via DOS fail.

Like before, the simple act of then swapping out the 5170's IBM authored motherboard ROM's for Award ones got the XT-IDE going (without anything else being done).

I will do some experimentation:
* Different types of IDE devices. (Have tried this before.)
* Given how close the 5162 and 5170 motherboards are (functionally), as an experiment only, I may try the motherboard BIOS ROM's for the 5162.
 

Malc

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After almost week of 'no hobbies due to other matters', I got around to this. First, I got R602 up and running on an XT-IDE Rev 2 card that was fitted to an IBM 5160. I then moved that card into my early IBM 5170. No go, with, or without IBM's combo card fitted. The XUB startup screen correctly reports the CF, but access attempts via DOS fail.

Like before, the simple act of then swapping out the 5170's IBM authored motherboard ROM's for Award ones got the XT-IDE going (without anything else being done).
What revision of the XUB did you use when you setup the CF on your 5160, Did you use the same CF or another one and setup on your 5170 ?

I will do some experimentation:
* Different types of IDE devices. (Have tried this before.)
* Given how close the 5162 and 5170 motherboards are (functionally), as an experiment only, I may try the motherboard BIOS ROM's for the 5162.
I never thought of that, Swapping the 5170 ROMS with the 5162 ROMS, It'll be interesting to hear the results.
 

maxtherabbit

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There is an AT-specific build of the XUB, did you use that one? (IDE_AT.BIN) It uses 16-bit IDE by default.

I'm skeptical of the testing being done with an actual XT-IDE interface card. I would socket the EPROM on something else and setup the XUB to utilise a bog-standard 16-bit IDE adapter.
 

modem7

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There is an AT-specific build of the XUB, did you use that one? (IDE_AT.BIN) It uses 16-bit IDE by default.
No. I did try IDE_AT.BIN many years ago as part of a discovery exercise then, but I will add it to my retesting.

I'm skeptical of the testing being done with an actual XT-IDE interface card. I would socket the EPROM on something else and setup the XUB to utilise a bog-standard 16-bit IDE adapter.
I remember doing experiments like that many years ago, trying to isolate whether it was the XUB or the XT-IDE card hardware, that had problem with the IBM BIOS ROM's. My faint recall that it was the XUB.

But since then, I have acquired a Rev 4 version of the XT-IDE card. So maybe that, and R602, and many experiments (e.g. turning off block transfers) may yield a result.
 

modem7

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I am not testing the XUB, per se.

Background:
Ever since the VCF created their XT-IDE card, some people (not me) have had the desire to use an XT-IDE card in an IBM 5170 or IBM 5162.
Yes, it is not the ideal IDE solution for such machines.
It was discovered early (by different people) that the VCF's XT-IDE card did not work in the IBM 5170 and IBM 5162.
Later, it was discovered that swapping out the IBM authored motherboard BIOS ROM's for Award ones got the XT-IDE and IBM 5170 (or IBM 5162) combination going.
And so, to date, people who (for whatever reason) wanted to use an XT-IDE card in an IBM 5170 or IBM 5162, have been informed that they may need to use the Award BIOS on their motherboard.

Now, to the OP's and my surprise, the OP has an XT-IDE functioning in his IBM 5162, a 5162 with its original IBM BIOS ROM's fitted. I am certainly thinking to myself, "What changed to allow that?". Post #2 suggests that the XUB was changed to rectify the incompatibility. I do not have a 5162 but I have 5170's. I know; I will try the latest XUB version on an XT-IDE fitted to one of my 5170's - a quick test. No dice.

There are quite a few variables. Out of curiosity (rather than necessity), in my own time, I will do some experimentation (again) using later hardware (XT-IDE) and software (XUB [version + configuration]). For example, trying IDE_AT.BIN set to 'XTIDE Rev 2'.
 

Malc

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.....Now, to the OP's and my surprise, the OP has an XT-IDE functioning in his IBM 5162, a 5162 with its original IBM BIOS ROM's fitted......
Just to be clear, I have been testing with 16-bit IDE / Floppy / Combo controllers with the XUB R602 in a Lo-Tech ROM board with no problems, I am now using a 16-bit IDE / Floppy controller which has it's own socketed onboard bios, I removed the onboard Bios ROM and fitted an XUB ROM which freed up a slot the Rom board was using. It is also working just fine.

I personally wouldn't use an 8-bit XT-IDE in an AT, I do have Original Rev 1 / 2 and 4 VCF XT-IDE's though i have not yet tested them this time round.
 

modem7

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Just to be clear, I have been testing with 16-bit IDE / Floppy / Combo controllers with the XUB R602 in a Lo-Tech ROM board with no problems, ...
Sorry. Confusion on my part. Somehow I thought that you were referring to the well known XTIDEcard/IBM5170 (XTIDEcard/IBM5162) issue.
 

Malc

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Sorry. Confusion on my part. Somehow I thought that you were referring to the well known XTIDEcard/IBM5170 (XTIDEcard/IBM5162) issue.

I am sorta :) As with the Original VCF 8-bit XT-IDE's the same issue's were seen when using 16-bit IDE / Floppy controllers by myself and others on this forum, Way back when i last tested i had the same issues with both the 8-bit VCF XT-IDE's and 16-bit IDE / Floppy / Combo controllers when using the Original IBM 5162 / 5170 Bios.

I will test my VCF XT-IDE R4 in my 5162 using XUB R602 today and report back with the results.
 

Malc

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....I will test my VCF XT-IDE R4 in my 5162 using XUB R602 today and report back with the results.

I tested my XT-IDE R2 and R4 cards in my 5162 with XUB R602 and the original IBM 5162 BIOS, After much faffing about it was a Total FAILURE.

The IBM 5162 Bios expects to see a * compatible * IDE / Floppy controller, With just an XT-IDE R2 or R4 card fitted or the XT-IDE R2 or R4 and a floppy controller fitted, On Boot up it throws a "601-Diskette Error" and "162-System Options Not Set-(Run Setup) (Resume = "F1" Key), I press the F1 key and it continues to boot from the CF card, I run the Lo-tech "DiskTest" and it FAILS on the Media Test with many Block errors, OR it freezes part way thru the Media Test, I Reboot and find my CF is not recognized by the XUB because it's trashed, I had to do a complete wipe and reinstall of DOS.

Fitting the Original IBM 5162 Hard drive / Floppy combo card and connecting the floppy drive to it got rid of the 601 and 162 errors, On boot up there were no errors and it booted into DOS, I ran DiskTest and again it failed on the MediaTest and ended up corrupting the CF.

I tried everything i could think of, Re-configuring the XUB but it was a no go all the way.It seem's they are just not compatible with the IBM 5162 BIOS, Using The AMI Bios i had no problems.
 

maxtherabbit

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I'm not surprised by that outcome - but just to reiterate: the latest release of XUB works fine with the original IBM BIOS if you use a 16-bit IDE card, correct?
 
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