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Intrest in new ISA cards?
- Thread starter dkarguth
- Start date
ngtwolf
Veteran Member
I guess I can see using DVI (vs displayport) since many folks have one of those adapters, but my opinion really is that it's just worth it to pay the HDMI license fee and add the cost (or depending on how small you are, i'm doubtful the hdmi folks are coming after people who make a handful of cards). The amount for the license fee is significantly less than everyone buying the card or whatever and then having to buy an adapter. While there are monitors that have Displayport now (mostly HP), I think most people would rather just have HDMI and avoid the extra aggravation. I wish Displayport took over as the new standard, since it's got many advantages to hdmi, but it honestly was just too late. This coming from a previous owner of the "better" Betamax and eventually had to buy a VHS themselves.
eeguru
Veteran Member
There appears to be so much confusion here. DVI essentially = HDMI. DVI is part of the 1.0 and 1.1 version of the same spec and was dropped in 1.3 and beyond. Electrically they are the same. You can run a HDMI 2.0 compliant signal over a DVI connector and a DVI 1.1 signal over an HDMI connector. So any HDMI transceiver will work here as will generating TMDS directly in an FPGA (serdes or otherwise).
You don't have to pay any license fee to use either connector; or even the protocol. You only pay it if you want to use the logos. DCP LLC might notice if you use HDCP and raise a concern.
In the design I envisioned (detailed above), I would have a DVI connector with both the analog pins (RGB+HV) wired to a DAC and the digital pins wired to a HDMI 1.3+ tranceiver with audio support either from an internal aux in or sound emulation.
There are DisplayPort transceivers in leaded packages as well. DVI has the added advantage of allowing HDMI or VGA output with a simple adapter.
glitch
Veteran Member
That's something I intend to work on, if no one gets to it before me. I've got a bunch of non-PC systems that would benefit from it.
I've also considered doing a new 8-bit ISA network card, but existing Ethernet cards that will work with 8-bit ISA are so cheap and available that it's not worth running the bare boards. I can't speak to the attractiveness of 8-bit ISA WiFi since I personally hardwire everything possible. In any event, you'd have to also provide packet drivers. That's the beauty of some of the RS-232 and parallel port WiFi bridge devices, they'll just use a SLIP or PPP driver, and they have the added bonus of working on laptops and portables too.
Agree 100% with Alan on using proper 3.3V => 5V level translation. Poor level translation is a great way to chase intermittent failures.
ngtwolf
Veteran Member
Yup, the mfm/rll replacement would be the highest interest for me since there are no "average consumer" alternatives for that... I think the DREM is really focused on the business market (at business prices).
As for the wifi / network Isa dos card, it would be nice but, yeah, the serial options are generally good enough since most folks don't want to do more than telnet anyway. I like to go all out on my network stuff. On my ps/1, I set up full DOS networking with mapped drives to my NAS network shares and all the while I was doing that my friends were saying that was too much work, I should just use mTCP to FTP files back and forth and call it a day.
A cga, ega and vga compatible graphics adapter would be really nice. Support for a VGA DAC would be cool since you can use a DVI transmitter and VGA DAC based on a direct LCD interface as shown here:http://www.rayslogic.com/propeller/Products/DviGraphics/DVI.htm
Support for a 8 bit PC104 connector as well as an 8 bit ISA and limiting the size to a minimum would widen the usability further. An optional 8080 type interface would be nice as well since that would allow the usage of the system by other platforms.
I can see the usefulness of USB in an 8088 type machine but I already have several methods for exchanging files with modern systems (CF, SD and floppy). Another non-DMA interface is not really needed by me. Maybe if it is integrated on the video card?
My most anticipated features:
- 8-bit ISA support
- VESA compatible
- analog VGA support (via 2-row pinheader)
- cga, ega and basic vga support
- real 5V TTL (>3.6V high level)
- price <=$150
- optional 8 bit PC104 interface
- optional Hercules and Tandy/PC jr.
- optional DVI-support
- optional 0 wait state
- optional free open source design
- optional 8080-style interface
- optional serial interface (like SDI)
-Jonas
deathshadow
Veteran Member
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- Jan 4, 2011
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Can't say any of those ideas are blowing my skirt up... but I do have my own wish list.
Intelligent MPU-401 compatible that does NOT require the external breakout box. Sure the box is "easier" to come by, but why can't we just have an all in one replacement card as "new stock' -- or better as a kit? Is it really so hard to fit a pair (or trio) of 5 pin DIN sockets into a expansion slot?
High density floppy controller. Whist sure they exist they are getting harder to find. Something on par with the XT-IDE -- maybe even share the ROM space / extend the card functionality?
286/AT memory card -- whilst we have EMS boards and conventional memory boards, finding working RampageAT and its ilk is getting more and more difficult. Particularly given how will DIP RAM chips are aging.
PS/2 port -- a proper PS/2 mouse interface for older PC/XT/AT class machines is something I've not seen. Be more useful than dicking around with USB.
Intelligent MPU-401 compatible that does NOT require the external breakout box. Sure the box is "easier" to come by, but why can't we just have an all in one replacement card as "new stock' -- or better as a kit? Is it really so hard to fit a pair (or trio) of 5 pin DIN sockets into a expansion slot?
High density floppy controller. Whist sure they exist they are getting harder to find. Something on par with the XT-IDE -- maybe even share the ROM space / extend the card functionality?
286/AT memory card -- whilst we have EMS boards and conventional memory boards, finding working RampageAT and its ilk is getting more and more difficult. Particularly given how will DIP RAM chips are aging.
PS/2 port -- a proper PS/2 mouse interface for older PC/XT/AT class machines is something I've not seen. Be more useful than dicking around with USB.
Plasma
Veteran Member
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- 2,087
deathshadow said:
HardMPU
deathshadow said:
Sergey's ISA Floppy Disk and Serial Controller
Also I would argue they aren't that hard to find. Just about any 16-bit Multi-I/O card will have an HD floppy controller and they are regularly on ebay for about $20.
deathshadow said:
A "proper" PS/2 interface requires IRQ 12, but PS/2 to serial converters exist.
Chuck(G)
25k Member
I'm not sure that I follow--do you mean something like David Gesswein's board? Seems affordable enough.
ngtwolf
Veteran Member
$175 seemed high to me. My SCSI2SD was a little over $70 after shipping. Beyond that, it wasn't really clear on if one could just swap out a RLL drive in something like an Atari ST Megafile and it would just work (with basic settings). But yeah, at those prices ($175 or $250 for the DREM), I'd rather just dump the drive enclosure completely and go for one of the $125 or so CF adapters. Just would like to see something competitive in the price range of the SCSI2SD that was as refined as well. Something that would let me use everything as it originally worked.
Stone
10k Member
Too bad you can't just use a DOM. They're relatively inexpensive, reliable and easy to configure. But you need an IDE header.
Chuck(G)
25k Member
Well, it might be possible to cut the price some. Remember that you need level-shifting (3.3V to 5V) for any modern MCU, as well as RS422 differential driver/receivers. I suspect that you could do it with an add-on board to a RPi (or OPi) Zero. There's a guy who published artwork for doing a job similar to a Kyroflux using a RPi. Of course, if there were a real market for one, the Chinese would turn them out for $25 shipped.
10 years ago, the notion of a full-featured board running Linux with a 1+GHz CPU for about $10 or less would seem to be fantasy.
Indeed, I could use a few of such cards, the best would be probably a clone of Orchid Ramquest 8/16 - up to 32MB of RAM, extended or expanded, with support for both 8- and 16-bit ISA.
dkarguth
Experienced Member
Nope, I mean DisplayPort. Displayport has adapter cables to go to pretty much everything, from VGA to HDMI. HDMI does in fact require a license to use their connector, and their protocol. It lists it on their website. Also, DisplayPort uses a much more modern and compact connector than DVI, and it's easier to find DisplayPort cables now. It's becoming the standard for most video cards and monitors at this point. HDMI is actually on its way out, thankfully.
ngtwolf
Veteran Member
There's a guy who published artwork for doing a job similar to a Kyroflux using a RPi. Of course, if there were a real market for one, the Chinese would turn them out for $25 shipped.
10 years ago, the notion of a full-LM.
Yeah, if they can emulate a 1541 with a raspberry pi, I'd think just about any drive should be possible.
ngtwolf
Veteran Member
I'm conflicted on this. Displayport is definitely better but HDMI is the standard for everything.. now with more video cards possibly switching to displayport we're going back to multiple standard for different types of equipment. Home entertainment isn't going to move to displayport, so we'll be in that conflicting world of multiple standards and adapters.
I wish displayport had gone the route of usb-c (and previously lighting port) and made their port reversible.. I bet that alone would have improved consumer uptake since as it is, consumers don't care that they have to pay a couple extra pennies for HDMI, but if there was a noticeable immediate benefit then maybe.
Almost everything discussed here either already done, or can be easily done at http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthre...PC-on-FPGA-with-real-8088&p=543153#post543153
Unfortunately, I’m crazy busy now, don’t even have a time for the update on the development
Unfortunately, I’m crazy busy now, don’t even have a time for the update on the development
glitch
Veteran Member
I'd been asked by several people about doing a kit run of Sergey's FDC board, and had thought myself about doing it with the addition of at least a 34-pin edge connector added on, if not a 37-pin D-SUB. As long as the correct filters available on the board, it'll also do single-density mode, important for those of us with pre-PC machines. However, some time ago, Sergey had contacted me regarding the details of the XT-IDE rev 3 or rev 4 sales (I forget how long ago it was), stating that he was thinking about doing larger runs of some of his boards and offering kits, too. I haven't heard back from him about that, but I didn't want to start running a derivative of his FDC board if he was going to do so himself.
Anyone have current contact info for him?
Jimmy
Veteran Member
The 37 pin D sub would the good. I would be interested.
deathshadow
Veteran Member
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Which nobody seems to sell even just bare boards for, and seems a bit too complicated for its own good... and again why not just put the two to three DIN on the back instead of a breakout cable?
Last thing I need is another serial port, but good to know the project exists. Shame again, nobody seems to make the boards or provide kits.
Which does jack good in a 8 bit slot particularly when most 16 bit cards don't provide the ROM -- they rely on the AT class ROM to provide that functionality. The few 8 bit controllers available out there from old stock are going for $150 a pop or more for something that should probably be a $35 kit, $70 or less assembled.
So give it a different IRQ and alter the drivers. That shouldn't be rocket science.