• Please review our updated Terms and Rules here

Issues with formatting an ESDI drive on a PS/2 8560

ButINeededThatName

Experienced Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2018
Messages
176
Location
Fort Wayne, IN
Hey all, I'm trying to get my Model 60 up and running, however I've found myself struggling to get the ESDI drives in this system functioning properly. I currently have it configured with two IBM 70Mb ESDI hard disks and the standard IBM ESDI Controller. I've pulled the terminator resistor out of drive 0, left the resistor in drive 1 and I believe I've set the DIP switches on each dive to the correct positions for ID.

At startup, the system seemingly attempts to boot from the primary drive, but gives a 10480 error (Fixed Disk / Drive C error) after about thirty seconds. I attempted to format the primary drive using the reference disk and while I can start the format process, it won't progress past the "Identifying Drive Parameters" step and gives a high-pitched beep before returning back to the menu after about a minute or so. Checking the system configuration also reveals the controller isn't detecting either drive. With how it's behaving, I'm assuming I either have the drives configured / cabled incorrectly or (and hopefully this isn't the case) I just have a bad drive.

Would anyone happen to know or have any information on how to configure the DIP switches for these drives? Currently I have them set using vague information I found online for similar drives, but so far I haven't been able to find anything specific. Also, if there's anything else I should check or do, please let me know. While I could just slap a SCSI controller and drive in and call it done, I'd prefer to use the original drives and controller this system came with if at all possible.
 

ButINeededThatName

Experienced Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2018
Messages
176
Location
Fort Wayne, IN
Alright, I tried using just one drive at a time with the terminator resistor in, tested them once with the ID set to 0 and 1, and I still haven't made any progress. I've also tried three controllers, two later style and one early style. Both of the later style controllers give a 10480 (drive 0 seek error) and will allow you to try and format drive C with the utility, before failing after and returning me back to the menu. The early style controller does not give a 10480 error and does not allow you to try and format the drive through the utility, stating that there is no fixed disk connected when that option is selected. I've also tried installing the controllers in a different slot.

One other issue I'm finding is if you try and load the testing utility, it says that there is a "hardware configuration error" and recommends you run configuration before the tests even start. This message only appears when there is an ESDI controller installed in the system, otherwise it allows you to load and run the tests normally.

I'm honestly not sure what the issue is at this point. Both drives sound fine and don't make any strange noises during spin-up and I find it unlikely I have three bad controllers. I'm really not sure where to go from here. Maybe test the controller and drives in another system?
 

bear

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2006
Messages
630
Location
Seattle, WA
Don't assume the low level format on the drives is correct for the PS/2 controller. Use the reference disk to access the format routine in diags before trying to format it in DOS.
 

twolazy

Veteran Member
Joined
May 22, 2011
Messages
1,629
Location
Chicago, IL
I have a spare controller lying bout if needed, a kingston ram card, and a 386 slc/50 cpu upgrade. Not often you see model 60 peeps! Nice to see someone else! 👍
 

ButINeededThatName

Experienced Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2018
Messages
176
Location
Fort Wayne, IN
Don't assume the low level format on the drives is correct for the PS/2 controller. Use the reference disk to access the format routine in diags before trying to format it in DOS.
That's what I've been trying; Loading the reference diskette, pressing CTRL+SHIFT+A and trying to run the format utility provided on the Reference Diskette. DOS doesn't detect a fixed disk at all.

I have a spare controller lying bout if needed, a kingston ram card, and a 386 slc/50 cpu upgrade. Not often you see model 60 peeps! Nice to see someone else! 👍
I think I'm starting to see why there aren't many of us around! Between all the work that goes into getting the diskette drives for these particular systems working (it's a 50/50 crapshoot that replacing the caps works in my experience) and the headache that getting the original fixed disk working is proving to be, it's no wonder people seem to pass Model 60/80 systems up. I doubt a lot of people have the patience for obscure issues like this.
 

Timo W.

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2014
Messages
1,642
Location
Germany
Hey all, I'm trying to get my Model 60 up and running, however I've found myself struggling to get the ESDI drives in this system functioning properly. I currently have it configured with two IBM 70Mb ESDI hard disks and the standard IBM ESDI Controller.
Are you sure the ESDI controller is actually one? See, the 8560 could be ordered with either a 44 MB or 70 MB hard disk. The 44 MB hard disk was ST-506, not ESDI, so if that controller was originally connected to a 44 MB drive, it is an ST-506 controller. Both interfaces use the same set of cables.

You may know this info already and the controller is indeed ESDI. But just in case, I thought it's a good idea asking. ;)
 

ButINeededThatName

Experienced Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2018
Messages
176
Location
Fort Wayne, IN
Alright I think I made some progress. So far I've been trying to use the drives with their IDs set to either 0 or 1, because one would assume one of those would naturally be the "starting" ID and you would increment from there for additional drives. Out of curiosity though (or more accurately, trying random things because I've run out of ideas), I decided to set the primary drive to ID 2 and whaddya know, no 10480 error. Instead, I now have a 10490 error, which is "drive 0 read failure". I once again tried the utility provided on the reference disk and it once again failed, though this time with the error message it provided it sounds like the drive just needs a low-level format. I'm going to prepare a DOS startup disk here in a bit, throw SpinRite onto it and try and low-level format the drive and see where that gets me.

Are you sure the ESDI controller is actually one? See, the 8560 could be ordered with either a 44 MB or 70 MB hard disk. The 44 MB hard disk was ST-506, not ESDI, so if that controller was originally connected to a 44 MB drive, it is an ST-506 controller. Both interfaces use the same set of cables.

You may know this info already and the controller is indeed ESDI. But just in case, I thought it's a good idea asking. ;)

It is an ESDI controller, yes. I have both on hand and throwing one of my ST-506 controllers and a 20mb MFM hard disk was going to be my next step if I couldn't get the ESDI drives working.
 

ButINeededThatName

Experienced Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2018
Messages
176
Location
Fort Wayne, IN
Aha! It's formatting!

Alright, so SpinRite didn't detect the drive at all, which once again left me confused and annoyed.

After bumbling around a bit with a couple other utilities, I just decided to try and run the utility provided in the RefDisk again and this time after closing out the error pop-up, it actually offered to do a "factory initialization" on the drive. Of course, it wasn't as simple as pressing "Y", the initialization didn't start due to an "issue" with the drive's defect table. That then reminded me if an obscure tidbit of info I read a few days ago; With IBM being IBM, they had apparently used some form of custom format or defect table on their drives and of course, you had to use an IBM drive with that special formatting or table, else you couldn't use it in the system (very cool, IBM!).

I looked into this a bit more and found this page over on Ardent Tool, which provided a method around this. Basically, it involves using Debug in DOS to modify the RefDisks LLFormat.com to ignore(?) this requirement and initialize any drive regardless if it is a super-special IBM drive or an evil non-IBM drive. Anyways, after modifying the file, copying it back into the RefDisk and running initialization, it started formatting with no issue. Fingers crossed everything goes smoothly from here on out.
 
Last edited:

ButINeededThatName

Experienced Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2018
Messages
176
Location
Fort Wayne, IN
Okay, here's where I stand...

Both drives successfully low-level formatted using the modified LLFormat.com when connected individually, with their ID set to 2 and the terminator resistor installed. The RefDisk utility correctly shows "(1)ESDI Fixed Disk" and DOS sees each drive. However I still have one final hurdle here...

When both, formatted and known working drives are connected at the same time, I get a 10483 error (Controller reset fail or Controller (drv sel 0 - config/stat bad)). Physically, everything is connected and set how it should be...
- Drive 1 is connected to the end of the control cable (J3), is set to ID 2 and has the terminator resistor installed.
- Drive 2 is connected to the middle of the control cable (J2), is set to ID 3 and has no terminator resistor installed.
- Both drives have their respective data cable connected to the correct position on the controller.

For some reason, having both drives connected causes neither to show up. (0)ESDI Fixed Disks is displayed in the RefDisk utility and DOS does not see either drive. I'm honestly not sure what the cause of this issue is and I'm entirely out of ideas. Does anyone have any ideas on things to try? I'm so close and yet seemingly so far from finally having this set up how I wanted.
 

ButINeededThatName

Experienced Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2018
Messages
176
Location
Fort Wayne, IN
if your cable has a twist (as I believe it does), they need both be unit 2
That did it! They're both detected and working properly now.

Honestly, setting them both to the same ID would have been my dead-last guess here. I assumed it functioned similar to MFM and wanted you to increment the drive IDs.
 
Top