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Just got my first vintage computer, an IBM PC/XT 5160

S

sqpat

Experienced Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2009
Messages
315
Location
Seattle, WA
Fair warning: The images I'm linking to have a pretty big resolution and might take a while to load if you're on dialup! I left them as urls because of their size.

Got a hold of it earlier this morning, here's what it looks like, along with some retr0bright ingredients i hope to run the case through over the next week or so (it's only 3% hydrogen peroxide)

http://sqpat.com/img/5160/1238800059524.jpg

It's not too messy, but it should look a lot better when I'm done with the cleaning process. Anyway, as I began to take the thing apart, noticed something that I don't think is standard on these cases:

http://sqpat.com/img/5160/1238800135810.jpg

Looked like a couple of serial ports that were hanging out over the back.

Anyway, I took the thing apart. Here's a list of what I found:

- Motherboard seems to be an AMD 8088 model. I assume this runs at the standard 4.77 MhZ or whatever. The 8088 processor says it was made in 1982. Elsewhere it says "64-256KB SYSTEM BOARD". Is this an AMD or IBM system board? I assume it's got 256 K of RAM on it.
- Hard drive is an IBM WD12, 5.25" 10 MB hard drive. Hopefully I can upgrade that to 20 or maybe even 40 later on.
- It's also got a 5.25" floppy drive.
- It had 5 ISA slots in use:
1. An IBM CGA adapter
2. An IBM Hard Drive Controller
3. An IBM 1503969 serial port control card
4. A Quadram Quadboard which seems to have 384 KB of ram, as well as a printer serial port and game port which hang out of the system's casing, as well as another 25 pin serial port in the back.
5. An "Acquisition and Control Adapter", model number is 281-088, this is the one that connects to the weird slot in the back and overall it seems to connect to a pair of 37-pin serial slots as well as some kind of 60 pin (2 rows of 30) device in the back. Here is an ebay listing (not mine) with good pictures of the thing I'm looking at. http://cgi.ebay.com/Acquisition-Con...296140960QQihZ015QQcategoryZ162QQcmdZViewItem

If you want to take a look at all the pictures I took of the thing, feel free to have yourself a look here: http://sqpat.com/img/5160/

Anyway, I also have a few questions as well...

1. I got a ps/2->AT adapter, but that probably wont be enough to make a keyboard work unless i flash the BIOS to a newer revision, right? I might eventually try to do such a thing, but for now, I might grab a cheaper XT keyboard I guess.

2. It seems to be a standard IBM CGA card on this thing. Will a simple 9 to 15 pin d-sub adapter work with a modern monitor? Will it properly handle CGA/Monochrome modes? Also, I want to eventually upgrade to an EGA or even VGA card (not to play games, etc, but to try and write some code on my own. I know the processor isn't powerful enough for a lot of that). Would that also be as simple as hooking it up to a modern monitor, or would there be some issue in supporting different display modes?

3. Will a modern computer/monitor power cord work for this thing? I notice it has a male and female port, so I assume that's just for convenience? You don't actually have to use both, do you?

Hopefully I'll have this thing running in a couple of weeks, once I'm done cleaning it up and gathering whatever else I need.
 
sqpat said:
- Motherboard seems to be an AMD 8088 model. I assume this runs at the standard 4.77 MhZ or whatever. The 8088 processor says it was made in 1982. Elsewhere it says "64-256KB SYSTEM BOARD". Is this an AMD or IBM system board? I assume it's got 256 K of RAM on it.
Click to expand...

IBM made the boards, but used whatever chips they had laying around. Some have Intel and some have AMD chipsets.

sqpat said:
5. An "Acquisition and Control Adapter", model number is 281-088, this is the one that connects to the weird slot in the back and overall it seems to connect to a pair of 37-pin serial slots as well as some kind of 60 pin (2 rows of 30) device in the back
Click to expand...

I've seen XTs with those dual 37-pin ports before, but I'm not sure what they do. Other than that, it's a fairly typical configuration for an XT. The main 37-pin connector (not the ones on the top) is for an external floppy.

sqpat said:
1. I got a ps/2->AT adapter, but that probably wont be enough to make a keyboard work unless i flash the BIOS to a newer revision, right? I might eventually try to do such a thing, but for now, I might grab a cheaper XT keyboard I guess.
Click to expand...

You're correct that you need a newer BIOS, but you can't flash it. You'll have to do a chip swap. And the keyboard you're using must be able to work in XT mode.

sqpat said:
2. It seems to be a standard IBM CGA card on this thing. Will a simple 9 to 15 pin d-sub adapter work with a modern monitor? Will it properly handle CGA/Monochrome modes?
Click to expand...

No, because VGA monitors use analog signals and not digital. They also can't sync to the 15 Khz frequency used by CGA. You would need a CGA monitor, but until then you can use the composite output (the RCA jack on the CGA card) to connect it to a TV set.

sqpat said:
Also, I want to eventually upgrade to an EGA or even VGA card (not to play games, etc, but to try and write some code on my own. I know the processor isn't powerful enough for a lot of that). Would that also be as simple as hooking it up to a modern monitor, or would there be some issue in supporting different display modes?
Click to expand...

As long as it's an ISA card, it will work fine.

sqpat said:
3. Will a modern computer/monitor power cord work for this thing? I notice it has a male and female port, so I assume that's just for convenience? You don't actually have to use both, do you?
Click to expand...

Cords are cords are cords. The female port is just a pass-through for monochrome monitors.
 
sqpat said:
5. An "Acquisition and Control Adapter", model number is 281-088, this is the one that connects to the weird slot in the back and overall it seems to connect to a pair of 37-pin serial slots as well as some kind of 60 pin (2 rows of 30) device in the back. Here is an ebay listing (not mine) with good pictures of the thing I'm looking at.
Click to expand...

That's a data acquisition and control interface. TTL-level signal I/O (possibly even stronger signals), programmable, latchable. Used by older factories and plants for motor control, switching, and so forth. Very valuable even nowadays. A good one can cost upwards of a grand. Cheapies around 200-300 bucks (new, of course). It would connect to an external relay box or additional control panel for high-power applications.

Wanna get rid of that cumbersome card? <grinz wickedly>
 
Last edited:
Fallo said:
You're correct that you need a newer BIOS, but you can't flash it. You'll have to do a chip swap. And the keyboard you're using must be able to work in XT mode.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I mean to get a cheap EPROM programmer somewhere down the road and swap the chip.

Thanks, that was a really big help!
 
Haha, interesting. To be honest, I don't know that I want it. I'll probably take a closer look in a few days, and maybe consider selling or trading it to get some stuff I am looking for.

Looks like the 60 pin connector on this thing also has to do with the data acquisition and control system, judging from those manuals.
 
Hi,

Regarding the case. I don't think that is yellowed at all, at least not yellowed in the way old plastic computer cases normally yellow from the fire-retardent in them bonding with O2 molecules. My feeling is you might be wasting your time trying to treat it, or even worse, you could damage it.

Just give it a really good clean with some elbow grease. I think you'll be surprised just how well it will come up.

Tez
 
Well, I gave it a good scrub and decided it was fine like tezza said. No need for the retr0bright.

Powered it on, got a 601 error... opened it back up, realized that i hadn't plugged the floppy disk drive back in, so I did so... powered it on again, got a 301 error and 2 short beeps. Yeah, I do need an older keyboard and/or a BIOS update.

Otherwise... It detects 640 KB of ram, so the RAM card should be fine. (But boy, it takes forever for the POST). It detects the floppy, so that controller is fine. Output to monitor works, so that card is fine. Only unsure about the hard drive right now.
 
Hey, I remember that thing on ebay. Can't remember if I just watched or put in a bid. I too noticed those strange connectors. Of course, they were noted in the listing too.
 
sqpat said:
Powered it on, got a 601 error... opened it back up, realized that i hadn't plugged the floppy disk drive back in, so I did so... powered it on again, got a 301 error and 2 short beeps. Yeah, I do need an older keyboard and/or a BIOS update.

Otherwise... It detects 640 KB of ram, so the RAM card should be fine. (But boy, it takes forever for the POST). It detects the floppy, so that controller is fine. Output to monitor works, so that card is fine. Only unsure about the hard drive right now.
Click to expand...

Looks promising so far. I wouldn't worry about the delay during post. If it is a 4.7Mhz machine they do take a long time checking 640k of RAM.

Tez
 
tezza said:
Hi,

Regarding the case. I don't think that is yellowed at all, at least not yellowed in the way old plastic computer cases normally yellow from the fire-retardent in them bonding with O2 molecules. My feeling is you might be wasting your time trying to treat it, or even worse, you could damage it.

Just give it a really good clean with some elbow grease. I think you'll be surprised just how well it will come up.

Tez
Click to expand...

Tezza is correct. You're not looking at plastic, you're looking at painted plastic. The front face is black plastic, painted in a very light beige. The case is metal, painted grey'ish, so you definately don't want to use the Retr0Brite process on that, or it'll look very different when it's done (ie: like unpainted corroded metal).

Similar to the plastic yellowing, paint will actually fade over time due to UV and fluorescent light.

If a case or face piece is really faded or beat up, you can get a color match done by an auto paint supplier, and then re-paint it, but you'll have to use the paint, a texturer, a hardener, a reducer, a flattener (to get the correct sheen), and a PreVal sprayer (and all that along with a bunch of spraying practice).
I've just done exactly that, and the two I did look like new.
 
sqpat said:
If you want to take a look at all the pictures I took of the thing, feel free to have yourself a look here: http://sqpat.com/img/5160/
Click to expand...

I had at look at the other pictures.
You don't by any chance work for that Ebay seller that has all his photos out of focus do you?
Either you need to figure out where the macro button is on your camera, or one of us needs to get our eyes checked.
I might have to now, after trying to get my eyes to foucus on those things :)
 
Not really off topic here.

I went in on April 1 to pick up my new $466 glasses. I put them on. Whoa, the left eye was absolutely horrible. The lady took them off and rushed to the back room. When I saw her thru the open door, I said "I bet they made them for someone that is far-sighted, not near-sighted". Yep, sure enough, they had flipped the sign on my Rx value in the left eye. Likely it should have been something like -2.75, they made it +2.75. I get to wait another 6 days for the 2nd attempt.

And, yes, he does need to figure out the focus thing. I still haven't figured out how not to take 3000 x 2000 pictures yet.
 
Lorne said:
I had at look at the other pictures.
You don't by any chance work for that Ebay seller that has all his photos out of focus do you?
Either you need to figure out where the macro button is on your camera, or one of us needs to get our eyes checked.
I might have to now, after trying to get my eyes to foucus on those things :)
Click to expand...

Hahaha. Sorry, it's my cell phone, it's got a good resolution camera, but it kind of sucks outside of that. The problem is, it auto-focuses, but then it takes almost two full seconds after that to actually take the picture... so you have to stay... very... still.
 
Well once I get this thing working properly, I'll probably need to get a few 5.25" floppies to be able to do much with it. I assume this default IBM controller is so old that it only supports 360 KB floppies (and ditto for the drive)

Now, I have a couple of old 3.5" (1.44 MB) floppy drives lying around, as well as a bunch of disks from my old PS/2. I know that if I get a controller card, i can probably hook it up just fine, except that they are internal, while the hard drive and full height 5.25" floppy drive are taking up all the space for that. I'm guessing I can run the IDC cable outside the case to have a kind of fake external drive, but the floppy drive will be kind of unshielded (I think the bottom of the drive has a bunch of stuff exposed) Any suggestions for a makeshift enclosure? The best idea I have at the moment is to stick it in a external 3.5" hard drive enclosure and gut out the back side to leave the IDE connection accessible.

Or is there a better way to do this altogether? Floppy drives with older interfaces seem quite expensive. I saw the 40 pin solder hack in the ps/2 topic, but that still was an internal drive.
 
sqpat said:
Well once I get this thing working properly, I'll probably need to get a few 5.25" floppies to be able to do much with it. I assume this default IBM controller is so old that it only supports 360 KB floppies (and ditto for the drive)

Now, I have a couple of old 3.5" (1.44 MB) floppy drives lying around, as well as a bunch of disks from my old PS/2. I know that if I get a controller card, i can probably hook it up just fine, except that they are internal, while the hard drive and full height 5.25" floppy drive are taking up all the space for that. I'm guessing I can run the IDC cable outside the case to have a kind of fake external drive, but the floppy drive will be kind of unshielded (I think the bottom of the drive has a bunch of stuff exposed) Any suggestions for a makeshift enclosure? The best idea I have at the moment is to stick it in a external 3.5" hard drive enclosure and gut out the back side to leave the IDE connection accessible.

Or is there a better way to do this altogether? Floppy drives with older interfaces seem quite expensive. I saw the 40 pin solder hack in the ps/2 topic, but that still was an internal drive.
Click to expand...

Congrats with the XT!'

I've got a 720K (maybe 1,44mb) floppy drive in a 5,25" frame with an adapter board which makes it fit a standard 5,25" floppy cable. You'll need a new controller for it to work though.. Interested in it ?
 
QuantumII said:
Congrats with the XT!'

I've got a 720K (maybe 1,44mb) floppy drive in a 5,25" frame with an adapter board which makes it fit a standard 5,25" floppy cable. You'll need a new controller for it to work though.. Interested in it ?
Click to expand...

Thanks, but I don't think the adapter is a problem. I'll need a new floppy controller anyway, and I might as well get one with the more common IDC interface, to work with one of my two existing drives.
 
sqpat said:
Well once I get this thing working properly, I'll probably need to get a few 5.25" floppies to be able to do much with it. I assume this default IBM controller is so old that it only supports 360 KB floppies (and ditto for the drive)
Click to expand...

Yes. You can use a 3.5" drive with the original controller, but only as a 720k drive. If you want high density, you need one of those special XT controllers with the BIOS extension.

sqpat said:
Or is there a better way to do this altogether? Floppy drives with older interfaces seem quite expensive. I saw the 40 pin solder hack in the ps/2 topic, but that still was an internal drive.
Click to expand...

The IBM controller used edge connectors rather than the headers found on most floppy drives made after 1990. 720k drives with edge connectors (which I would think most of them are) appear on Ebay sometimes, but I haven't seen any auctioned ones, just ripoff online stores where they want $200-$300 for the drives.
 
sqpat said:
Well once I get this thing working properly, I'll probably need to get a few 5.25" floppies to be able to do much with it. I assume this default IBM controller is so old that it only supports 360 KB floppies (and ditto for the drive)

Now, I have a couple of old 3.5" (1.44 MB) floppy drives lying around, as well as a bunch of disks from my old PS/2. I know that if I get a controller card, i can probably hook it up just fine, except that they are internal, while the hard drive and full height 5.25" floppy drive are taking up all the space for that. I'm guessing I can run the IDC cable outside the case to have a kind of fake external drive, but the floppy drive will be kind of unshielded (I think the bottom of the drive has a bunch of stuff exposed) Any suggestions for a makeshift enclosure? The best idea I have at the moment is to stick it in a external 3.5" hard drive enclosure and gut out the back side to leave the IDE connection accessible.

Or is there a better way to do this altogether? Floppy drives with older interfaces seem quite expensive. I saw the 40 pin solder hack in the ps/2 topic, but that still was an internal drive.
Click to expand...

get a 16-bit multi-I/O controller with floppy/serial/parallel... the IDE won't work because it uses the 16-bit expanded pins on the AT+ bus, but the floppy will work in the 5160 with 1.44 MB drives provided you use a DOS that supports bypassing the BIOS to talk with the floppy such as DR-DOS 7.03
 
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