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Lisa 1 to 2 upgrade question

falter

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Hey guys,

Just seeking clarification on something. In my historical reading, I've read that Apple offered Lisa 1 owners an 'upgrade' to the 400k Sony drive to replace the dual Twiggys. Depending on how the articles are worded, I interpret this as either they replaced the entire machine with a new one, or took the old one in, swapped out the drives and then sent it back to the customer. Does anyone know exactly what the deal was?

I'm also wondering -- the infamous landfill in Logan where the remaining Lisa inventory was buried.. this happened in the mid to late 80s -- is it safe to assume what's buried there are Lisa 2s rather than 1s?
 

NeXT

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Lisa 2/5 and early 2/10 logic boards ARE Lisa 1 logic boards. The conversion process removes a resistor, changes several ROMs and adds the LisaLite card to the drive cage. Cosmetically the front bezel is replaced.
 

falter

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Lisa 2/5 and early 2/10 logic boards ARE Lisa 1 logic boards. The conversion process removes a resistor, changes several ROMs and adds the LisaLite card to the drive cage. Cosmetically the front bezel is replaced.

I was wondering -- because I was looking at some Lisa 1 parts online, and came across a '400k drive adapter' that supposedly is needed for a Lisa 1 with the Twiggy drive cage. I thought, hmm... I've seen that piece in my own machine. So it got me wondering if there was a slight chance I had a Lisa 2 that started life as a Lisa 1 and was upgraded.

This auction here shows the cage and drive adapter plate:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-3-5-Disk-Mounting-Plate-for-Apple-Lisa-1-Cage-/200555453122#ht_0wt_0

This is mine:

20131229_175754.jpg20131229_175801.jpg20131229_175828.jpg

I'm wondering if there's any way to prove that a given machine started off as a Lisa 1, and if there's any value to doing so.
 

falter

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I looked at the serial tag on it. The serial number is different from what Lisa 1s start with (Bxxxxxxxx), but the Applenet No. and Manufacturing date seem very close a couple of actual Lisa 1's I found online:

Serial: A3245708
Applenet: 00104316
Manufactured: 3245

This one here is very close to mine except for serial number:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/abeles/sets/72157623232810088/detail/

I wonder if Apple changed the serial tags, etc too?
 

snuci

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I think the biggest clue is the mouse and mouse port you have on your motherboard. With the tabs on the connector, you have and need a Lisa 1 mouse. Yours could very well have been a Lisa 1 but... don't worry about it. The parts that were removed are ultra rare and those parts are what makes a Lisa 1 so expensive.

You have a Lisa 2 period.

You may find this of interest: I have 2 Lisa 2/5s. One has the tabbed mouse connector, the other one does not so the Mac style mouse fits no problem. My 2 2/10s have the normal connector too.
 

falter

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I think the biggest clue is the mouse and mouse port you have on your motherboard. With the tabs on the connector, you have and need a Lisa 1 mouse. Yours could very well have been a Lisa 1 but... don't worry about it. The parts that were removed are ultra rare and those parts are what makes a Lisa 1 so expensive.

You have a Lisa 2 period.

You may find this of interest: I have 2 Lisa 2/5s. One has the tabbed mouse connector, the other one does not so the Mac style mouse fits no problem. My 2 2/10s have the normal connector too.

I have the tabbed mouse, but the port is not. I can plug the Mac Plus mouse I have into it no problem.

It's more for my own curiosity -- to me it's neat to think I may have what was once an original Lisa. That means more to me than a Lisa 2 that was produced as a Lisa 2. I may never see (or afford) the parts to return it back (I have seen Twiggys for sale on a couple of occasions, and a front bezel.. not sure what else you need, ROMs, etc) to that state, but still.. if I had a choice, I'd take the converted 1 over the original 2 any day. :) You could, theoretically, take a converted Lisa 1 back to stock and legitimately call it a Lisa 1, couldn't you? Definitely cannot do that with a produced as Lisa 2. I think the key to nailing it would be figuring out when Lisa 2 production started. I know Lisa 1s were still being produced in 83 when my machine was built -- don't know when 2's started.
 
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snuci

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My Lisa 2/5 with the tabbed mouse port is a A6SB100. The others are 200 or 300. Seems "pretty cut and dry" but those model numbers confuse me. You would think a Lisa 2/5 is A6SB200 and a Lisa 2/10 is a A6SB300 but that's not the case from when I looked around a while ago.
 

falter

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In doing other reading it was suggested to look at production dates and the Applenet number, which they say presumably was increased consecutively from its start point. If Applenet number is to be believed, I'm 1343 units from the Lisa 1 I posted in the example above. Cuts it kind of close. Just wish there was a definitive answer.
 

snuci

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Did a quick check on mine:

Lisa 2/5 A6SB100 Man: 83231 (has 5 digit manufacture code while the others have 4. Also has a "B" in the model number instead of "0" like others. The serial number also starts with a B. Could be a coincidence).
Lisa 2/5 A6S0300 Man:4156
Lisa 2/10 A6S0200 Man: 4300
Lisa 2/10 A6S0200 Man: 4158

I figure the AppleNet numbers are somewhat sequential but there probably was some cross-over where they were still producing Lisa 1 and Lisa 2s.
 

falter

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If I'm reading the date codes correctly, the Apple Lisa 1 in the example above was produced in 1983, 15th week, 9th day. That would put production around April of 83, which I think is around when Lisa 1 production started? Mine would be the 24th week, 5th day.. June. If that is correct, given the Twiggy-style drive cage.. seems like mine probably was a 1 before it became a 2.
 

snuci

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Here's the info I could dig up quickly:

The Lisa 1 was announced January 19, 1983. First large shipments in June.
The Lisa 2 was announced around November 1983. Don't know when it was first shipped or how/when Lisa 1 to Lisa 2 upgrades occurred.
The Lisa was renamed to MacXL in February 1985.

I have a documented timeline from 83 to 85 from a magazine article. I would hope they did their research. I also have a copy of the press release for the Lisa 1. How actual dates, manufacture dates and serial numbers coincide is a mystery.
 

falter

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Here's the info I could dig up quickly:

The Lisa 1 was announced January 19, 1983. First large shipments in June.
The Lisa 2 was announced around November 1983. Don't know when it was first shipped or how/when Lisa 1 to Lisa 2 upgrades occurred.
The Lisa was renamed to MacXL in February 1985.

I have a documented timeline from 83 to 85 from a magazine article. I would hope they did their research. I also have a copy of the press release for the Lisa 1. How actual dates, manufacture dates and serial numbers coincide is a mystery.

I pulled the drive cage out (the 400k drive doesn't seem to want to work). There are two floppy cables, and a power connector of some kind hanging loose back there.. not sure what it's for. I'm wondering about power -- do you know how the 400k gets its power? Is it straight off the Lisa card? I'm wondering what this spare power connector is for.. or if that's the 'twiggy' power.
 
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