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My IBM 5160 - questios.

L

Luke

Experienced Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2006
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418
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Poland
Yesterday I've recived an IBM XT with oryginal keyboard and IBM 5153 CGA monitor it in great visual condition. I have few questions:

1. It has NC 3.0, ChiWriter 3.14, few packing programs - this is common but is DOS 3.30 in Italian (?) version common?

2. The drive seems to be good. But it sometimes don't work propetly... when machine is powered up after counting memory (what a long time!) sometimes display: "Error di BOOT" and after few 'enters' it boots up. When I boot from diskette I have acces to HDD, but only sometimes I can read data from it... "General failure...". Would low level format help?

3. My XT has 64 kB - 256 kB mainboard, when were - 640 kB IBM mainboards introduced?

4. It's true that when monitor is screeching something is wrong with transformer? My sometimes is screeching.

5. For example in Norton Commander when I have long list and I'am re-wrapping it, upper part of screen is flashing, it's normal or something is wrong with monitor or card?

6. What is different between BASIC.COM and BASICA.COM?
 
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My XT is November 1985 and has the 64-256k mainboard. You can find a date stamp somewhere on the case, for me it is under the hard drive cradle. I think they changed to the later mainboard in early 1986.

Maybe your drive needs a low-level format? It seems that can solve a lot of the problems.
 
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Can I somewhere find original software for IBM XT? Now disk work fine I will instal DOS 2.10 on it I think. I have just formatted the drive:

10584064 bytes total disk space
10584064 bytes available on disk

Great... ;). If seller wouldn't park heads it would be propably broken down. I have done only standard format, do I need to do low level format?
 
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Yes indeed, a low level might do the trick.
I wouldn't worry about dos 2.10, if you ever want to use that machine, dos 2.10 will hinder your fun. You might want to use dos 3.3 or something. Since it dates to 1985, dos 3.3 is perfefct anyway. You could also run windows 2.03...
 
... 3B 301 ... something with keyboard? I have plastic crap that work but IBM keyboard is much better. Huh... it work now :p I have diassembled it and assembled... it work :). I think something is wrong with the cable.
 
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Whenever I get a new machine I do the following:
  • Clean out the dust. Especially near the drives
  • Look for loose wires and broken pieces
  • Check for broken pins on connectors

After that, it is safe to power up.

I've not seen DOS 3.30 in Italian, but that is not a big problem. Just put whatever version of DOS you would like on it. DOS 3.3 is fine for a machine like that. DOS 2.0 is probably what originally came with the machine, but I would not bother with it.

To do a low level format on an XT with the original controller you need software. IBM provided this software on the 'Advanced Diagnostics Diskette', which is very hard to find. You should look at this thread - it can be done with a BIOS interrupt:


This thread I found on Usenet is more like the way I would do it:


You need to be slightly familiar with assembler to pull that trick though. If you need help I'll guide you through it - just not this morning. :)

After the low-level format you can do the DOS format.

BASICA has a few more functions than BASIC. I would use it instead. IBM used to give you two flavors back when systems only had 64K and every byte counted. The size difference is so small that it's not worth bothering with BASIC.
 
I have saved all files from disk and formatted it with DOS format, I think that low level format is ineeded, I have installed PC-DOS 2.10 already, I like it more than 3.30 because it's older :) . Seller has powered up machine, so I have only cleaned MoBo, it don't have any lost cables etc. Keyboard is external pherypherial, so cable could be damaged, but now KB works.
 
as to your question about the BASICs, the early IBM stuph had a somewhat stripped down BASIC interpreter built into ROM. If a bootable floppy wasn't found, or you didn't have a hard drive...or didn't have one with a bootable partition, it would load the interpreter from ROM. To supplement it's functionality, IBM dos disks would have the BASICA program. If you executed that, the interpreter would also be loaded, but it would be augmented by the addition of the commands in what not in the BASICA file. By itself, BASICA was worthless.
Now if you had a non-IBM PC, what you'd get on your DOS disk is GW-BASIC, which is the same thing as IBM ROM BASIC and BASICA combined. Virtually no non-IBM PCs came with BASIC in rom. I think there was a thread about that. Did we conclude that any had it?
 
Not entirely accurate.

  • 'Cassette BASIC' is what is built into the ROM of the machine.
  • 'BASIC.COM' is known as Disk BASIC.
  • 'BASICA.COM' is known as Advanced BASIC

Clones used something like GWBASIC because to put BASIC in ROM like on the PC was copyright infringement on the IBM PC BIOS. (IBM must have had some sort of exclusive agreement with MS and MS couldn't license the ROM based BASIC to another manufacturer.)

If you have a PCjr, you also have 'Cartridge BASIC' which is the mother of all BASICS. It is on a ROM chip and is available whether you have booted DOS or not. (Instead of booting into Cassette BASIC which is built in, if you have Cartridge BASIC inserted it will boot to that.)

What's nasty on the Jr is that DOS checks to see if you are on such a machine, and if it is it won't run BASIC.COM or BASICA.COM from disk. You *have* to have Cartridge BASIC if you booted from DOS. The work-around is to rename BASIC.COM or BASICA.COM to something different, like DBASIC.COM or DBASICA.COM to circumvent the DOS check.
 
As to the question about CGA 'flicker' or 'snow', yes, that is considered 'normal' for an IBM CGA card. There are software solutions available, such as the 'Flicker Free' (freeware) program. (The monitor screech is not a good sign tho).

--T
 
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So someday transformer in monitor could fail :( ? It don't screech all time... only sometimes. Even PS/2 computers had BASIC in ROM I think.
 
PS/2 Computers are genuine IBMs, not clones. Go find a Compaq or a Dell that has a built-in BASIC.
 
Yes but Chris wrote: 'the early IBM stuph had a somewhat stripped down BASIC interpreter built into ROM'. So what is wrong with monitor if it's screeching? Damn... I need to low level format the drive because it's propably loosing data... I can't load OS now... :S LOL I can't acces built-in BASIC... there is nothing bootable in the computer, it says: "Wrong disk. Insert a SYSTEM disk and press any key." Hmm... but how do low level format? G=C800:5 gives Divide overflow... I love this. Maybe 'loosing data' it's beacause of discs that I use to install DOS 2.10? I'am making thier images in HD floppy attached to this 2.8 GHz Celeron, that I'am writing from.
 
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The cutoff frequency for our hearing drops as we get older. Someone over 40 (men more so than women), you may not be able to hear the whine at all...
Click to expand...

I'am young now ;). Remember this is low frequency eyes-burning monitor, anything is posible... I'am more 'calm' after reading this article.
 
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I think the XT will only boot into BASIC if it does not detect a hard disk or a floppy disk in the drive. So unplug the hard disk, and you should boot it to BASIC... (I think)
 
A 'squealing' sound emits from a component that is vibrating. That will usually be a transformer or coil. Compared to other electronic devices, a CRT based display also has a flyback transformer, however that isn't always the problem. Quite often, I find the cause (repeat CAUSE - not the actual component that is vibrating) to be a faulty electrolytic capacitor in the switch-mode power supply section. It's capacitance will probably be normal but it's ESR won't.

DO NOT ATTEMPT TO REPAIR POWER SUPPLIES UNLESS YOU ARE QUALIFIED

If you're lucky, your squealing monitor may continue to operate for many months (or even years).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Regarding a low-level format.

A great program I used to use for low-level formatting and testing of MFM drives was SpeedStor.
Get it from http://members.dodo.com.au/~iamextinct/

Because few MFM drives had compensation for the expansion of the platters caused by temperature changes, you should ideally do the low-level format when the drive is roughly in the middle of its operating temperature range. That's rarely practical to achieve. You should be right as long as you don't do the low-level format when the drive is cold.
 
Thanks for program... computer is dying propably... :(. I just powered it up to see if hard drive will boot up, it doesn't... I booted from floppy and I was looking for DOS 2.10 disks that I made yesterday. After checking few disks floppy died, now it is only motor is running all the time... and POST says 601 error. I opened it and connected another floppy, no 601 error, so controller is fine. Tried to connect floppy again nothing, I reconnected it again - works. Awf I'am angry! What could be not okay? One time it work, the other it fails...
 
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The BIOS in the type 1 motherboard for an XT (256K maximum RAM) only supports 5.25" drives.
And it wasn't until MS-DOS 3.0 that 1.2MB floppies were supported in DOS.
Therefore in your configuration (DOS 2.1 on a type 1 motherboard) 360K floppies are the best you can expect to read/write to.

The next time your computer doesn't work, measure the voltages coming from the power supply. To see how to do that, look at the "Troubleshooting an XT" thread.

Also, try reseating all of the RAM chips.

If the power supply voltages are good, and you've reseated the RAM chips, then I suggest you run a diagnostic program suitable for the xT.
 
Something else you need watch out for on IBM-XT's:

In the days of the IBM-PC and early IBM-XT's, pin 34 of the floppy drive interface is 'DRIVE READY'.
When IBM introduced the IBM-AT, pin 34 became 'DISK CHANGED'.

Many of the floppy drives from that period have a jumper on them that controls whether the drive generates a 'DRIVE READY' signal or a 'DISK CHANGED' signal on pin 34. If you were installing the drive in an IBM-XT then you would set the jumper for 'DRIVE READY' - for an IBM-AT the jumper would be set for 'DISK CHANGED'.

If you install a floppy drive into an IBM-XT (expecting 'DRIVE READY' on pin 34) and the drive is set to generate a 'DISK CHANGED' signal, then a lot of the time, the IBM-XT will think that the drive isn't ready.

I'm not sure how XT clones behave. Some may behave like the IBM-XT (expecting 'DRIVE READY' on pin 34) and some may behave like the IBM-AT (expecting 'DISK CHANGED' on pin 34).
 
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