need some help on a 8088

[techtatan]

hello everybody

my neighbor who has a fruit packaging company,still uses an old 8088 to control its sorting machines.
this old odrinateur just crached down, as he knows that I a vintage computer fan, he asked me to have a look:

The issue of the 8088 is an disk boot failure (error code 1701)
his problem is that the software to drive his machines are on the hdd.

here are the specs of the computer :

8088 motherboard 10MHz Turbo Board DTK PIM-TBIO-Z rev.9
Phoenix rom bios ver 2.52
copyright 1984-1988

kenitec tech. inc


the hard drive is a westren digital filecard 30

another problem i notice is a eprom without protection (maybe erased) located at U32
the ship is an 88840N 2764AFI pgm 12.5V

can somene tell me what this chip does ?

Also i need help to acces phoenix bios (hot keys) or the setup utility. this computer does not go in to basic mode when bios not ok like the ibm 1540

so any help would be most apreciated !!

Kind regards, techtatan

 

[SomeGuy]

Does he have backups?

In all probability the hard drive has died, and is not recoverable. If he has backups, throw in an XT-IDE or XT-CF, restore, and call it a day.

1701 is a general HDD error, and can also result from faulty cables or a faulty controller. Obviously check the cables. A quick search says the WD Filecard 30 should use a Western Digital WD1002-27X controller, you might try a replacement controller.

Exactly what brand/make/model of hard drive is installed in the Filecard?

I wouldn't worry about an unprotected EPROM. Unless it was sitting out in the sun, it should be fine. And it sounds like the motherboard should be fine. Just put a piece of tape over it to prevent future problems.

Also, clone motherboards usually do not have ROM Basic.

 

[techtatan]

hi, thanks for reply

he does not have any backups at my knowlege.

there are not mutch information on the drive all i can see is western digital (warning message) and character "Z" after that voltages info.
on the other side (hd controller card) there are some numbers 186703-002 d 9274
the controller is wdqc13 wt109012600 P/N 63-000531 rev.x1

I have tried the hard drive on my IBM 5160 with no look it puts me into basic
And i have no idea about the head and cylinder of the hard drive.

is there a way to get this information ?

kind regards

 

[techtatan]

hi

by disassembling the hd i got some more info :

tandon corp
fab 186702-002 rev A
assy 186703-002

also i have tried with another controller from an ibm 1570 and i can hear the hd workin and got boot disk failure :
no 1701 error code

regards

 

[pearce_jj]

Try booting off a floppy and running norton disk doctor. Maybe some data will be recoverable.

 

[krebizfan]

Boot off a floppy and see if the hard drive is recognized at all.

The FileCard was an RLL controller, most 5170's did not have RLL controllers so the drive may work but the original contents will not be found. To have any chance of recovering data from the drive, it is necessary to have a matching controller.

30 years off a RLL controller was an impressive feat. I hope the owner has original diskettes so the software can be installed on a new drive.

 

[pearce_jj]

Also to note; the disk must be in the same physical orientation to stand any chance.

 

[modem7]

the hard drive is a westren digital filecard 30

I see a photo of one at [here].

another problem i notice is a eprom without protection (maybe erased) located at U32
the ship is an 88840N 2764AFI pgm 12.5V
can somene tell me what this chip does ?

The BIOS chips on XT-class motherboards do not have support for hard drives. For that reason, XT-class hard disk controllers have to provide the 'missing' BIOS support. The EPROM you are referring to is known as a 'BIOS expansion ROM' and it provides the 'missing' BIOS support.

In fact, the code in that EPROM is what is displaying the '1701' error.
The sequence is:

1. Motherboard powers on.
2. BIOS ROM on XT-class motherboard executes its power on self test (POST) and initialisation code.
3. One of the things that initialisation code does is search for BIOS expansion ROMs.
4. It detects the BIOS expansion ROM on the FileCard 30, does a crude integrity check of the ROM, and because that check is passing, executes the initialisation code in the FileCard 30's BIOS expansion ROM.
5. The initialisation code in the FileCard 30's BIOS expansion ROM does some tests. The first test is usually a crude self test of the controller. If that passes, normally the initialisation code goes on to test the ability of the controller to interact with the hard drive. The usual interaction tests are a reset ('recalibrate') of the drive, followed by an attempted read of a sector.
6. Because one of the tests is failing, the initialisation code in the controller displays '1701'.

Clearly, because you are seeing the '1701' you can deduce that the code in the EPROM is most probably okay. I would not say definitely okay, because the integrity check done is an 8-bit checksum, not something like MD5. However, in my opinion, you would have to be very unlucky for multiple bits in the EPROM to fail and not effect the 8-bit checksum.

 

[modem7]

Also i need help to acces phoenix bios (hot keys) or the setup utility.

The DTK PIM-TBIO-Z motherboard has neither. That is normal for PC-class and XT-class motherboards. The user's manual is [here].

I presume that you asked that question because you are looking for where the hard drive is configured. From my earlier post, PC-class and XT-class motherboards do not 'know' about hard drives. All hard drive configuration/initialisation information will be detailed in the manual for the FileCard 30. Because the FileCard 30 is simply an XT-class hard disk controller and drive bolted together in a frame, the manual for the hard disk controller card will also contain the same sort of information.

 

[techtatan]

Hi everybody

Thank you all for this precious informations !

information will be detailed in the manual for the FileCard 30

I did not find the manual but was able to gather this informations :

WESTERN DIGITAL CORPORATION

WD1002-27X

Replaced by the WD1004-27X

Data bus: 8-bit, PC/XT

Size: Half-length, full-height card

Hard drives supported: Two RLL ST506/412 drives

Floppy drives supported: None

Maximum heads/cyl.: 16 heads and 1024 cylinders

[Image]

CONNECTIONS

Function Location

34-pin control cable connector-hard drive J1

20-pin data cable connector-drive 0 J2

20-pin data cable connector-drive 1 J3

5-pin DC power connector J4

DRIVE TYPE CONFIGURATION

DRIVE 1 DRIVE 0

Type # S1/jumper 1 S1/jumper 2 S1/jumper 3 S1/jumper 4

0 closed closed closed closed

1 open closed open closed

2 closed open closed open

3 open open open open

USER CONFIGURABLE SETTINGS

Function Location Setting

» BIOS enabled W3 closed

BIOS disabled W3 open

» I/O port address is 324-327h W4 pins 1 & 2
closed

I/O port address is 320-323h W4 pins 2 & 3
closed

» 2732 & 2764 BIOS supported W5 pins 1 & 2
(hard-wired) closed

2716 BIOS supported W5 pins 2 & 3
closed

» 8 head hard drive with RWC W6 pins 2 & 3
supported closed

16 head hard drive supported W6 pins 1 & 2
closed

» Hard Drive Interrupt is IRQ5 W7 pins 1 & 2
(hard-wired) closed

Hard Drive Interrupt is IRQ2 W7 pins 2 & 3
closed

» Single controller setting, W8 pins 2 & 3
primary controller closed

Dual controller setting, W8 pins 1 & 2
secondary controller closed

» Firmware translation enabled W9 closed

Firmware translation disabled W9 open

» Hard Drive Interrupt is IRQ5 S1/jumper 7 open

Hard Drive Interrupt is IRQ2 S1/jumper 7 closed

» AT mode enabled S1/jumper 8 closed

XT mode enabled S1/jumper 8 open

BIOS DRIVE TYPE TABLE

Type # Formatted Heads Physical/Logical Cylinders
Capacity

0 65MB 5 981/1023

1 92MB 7 987/1023

2 33MB 4 612/935

3 33MB 4 615/940

TRANSLATION CONFIGURATION - S1 & W9

SPT BIOS Dynamic RLL S1 S1 W9
BIOS
Translate Configuration Jumper Jumper see
Type 5 6 above

- Undefined - - open open -

17 yes no 1 closed open open

26 no yes 2 open closed open

17 no yes 0 closed closed closed

MISCELLANEOUS TECHNICAL NOTES

This controller has a built-in low-level format program. To enter the
program run the DEBUG utility supplied with DOS and at the prompt
enter: G=C800:5.

As i do not own another rll controller (or not for sure) i will try to get one on ebay... for some test

Try booting off a floppy and running norton disk doctor. Maybe some data will be recoverable.

does somene have a copy of the best version for this case ?

My goal for now is to copy the data from the old hard drive to a new drive on an ISA IDE controller

Are there any objetions to install an isa IDE on an 8088 (for the moment this is just an idea of mine) any better suggetions would be welcome.
If some one has better idea to get data back out of the old drive, this would be help full ..

Thank you all once again..
Kind regards

 

[Stone]

As i do not own another rll controller (or not for sure) i will try to get one on ebay...

Look here.

 

[pearce_jj]

It's easiest to use a CompactFlash card rather than an IDE drive, plus get an industrial spec card and it should last many years.

 

[SomeGuy]

My goal for now is to copy the data from the old hard drive to a new drive on an ISA IDE controller

Are there any objetions to install an isa IDE on an 8088 (for the moment this is just an idea of mine) any better suggetions would be welcome.
If some one has better idea to get data back out of the old drive, this would be help full ..

Thank you all once again..
Kind regards

You can't use a run-of-the mill IDE controller card in an 8-bit ISA 8088 PC. Those require a 16-bit ISA slot in an AT 286 or higher. You will have to use a new XT-IDE or IDE-CF card. (There were a few XT compatible 8-bit IDE cards made back in the day, but those are extremity rare and are incompatible with most newer hard drives).

To be clear there is only so much a normal person can do here.

1: Try booting from a floppy to see if anything is accessible. This is a very, very, very long shot, as the 1701 error typically means DOS won't get a drive letter. If you don't get a C: drive, then most diagnostic programs won't work. But this helps rule out that anything really weird is going on. A DOS 6.22 disk with SCANDISK should be good enough.

2: Check/replace the cables. (if you haven't already) Another long shot, but worth testing.

3: Switch out the RLL controller. You must use the SAME model. The low-level format is usually not compatible between different models. Also, is the controller ROM in a socket? There is a slight chance you may need to put your existing controller ROM in the new card (I doubt they customized the ROM, but it is possible), so I would suggest making sure the new one also has a socketed ROM.

4: Switch out the logic board on the hard drive. This must be from the exact same model of hard drive, and should have the exact same assembly/part/revision numbers. That would be hard to find though.

 

[krebizfan]

You should prepare for the eventuality that nothing short of very expensive professional recovery services will get enough data off the hard drive. By expensive, I mean it may be cheaper to purchase a replacement sorting machine.

Look through the back room and see if any install or backup floppies were stored. Find any, verify readability. Readable: reinstall on new drive.

 

[Krille]

You can't use a run-of-the mill IDE controller card in an 8-bit ISA 8088 PC. Those require a 16-bit ISA slot in an AT 286 or higher.

It is actually possible under these conditions;

* The IDE controller must physically fit in the machine (obviously).
* You would need some way to put a ROM with XTIDE Universal BIOS in the machine.
* The drive(s) must be ATA-2 compliant. This means that some older IDE harddrives will work and all Compact Flash format media (CF cards and microdrives) are supposed to work.
* The computer must not be an IBM PC 5150.

However, I think this discussion is kind of moot unless the OP finds the software somewhere (on backups or original install media etc). Finding a way to install a new drive is going to be easy compared to recovering data from the old drive.

 

[pearce_jj]

Krille, what's the bit about the 5150?

 

[techtatan]

hi everybody and thanks for reply and suggestions.

My goal for now is to copy the data from the old hard drive to a new drive on an ISA IDE controller

I may be left wander my ideas a bit far for the moment. Whta i need to know for the moment is if i can get data back from the old drive !

for that i need a Western Digital WD1002-27X controller card I PM Stone about it !... waiting for his reply

Also i need to be sure about the eprom located at U32 (the ship is an 88840N 2764AFI pgm 12.5V) on 8088 motherboard 10MHz Turbo Board DTK PIM-TBIO-Z rev.9.

Does someone know where i can find an image of this eprom (or is this specific to this computer)... i have an eprom burner so if a kind soul can provide the eprom image file or know where i can get it.. this could be helpfull to compare the content of the actual eprom with an image.

3: Switch out the RLL controller. You must use the SAME model. The low-level format is usually not compatible between different models. Also, is the controller ROM in a socket? There is a slight chance you may need to put your existing controller ROM in the new card (I doubt they customized the ROM, but it is possible), so I would suggest making sure the new one also has a socketed ROM

Thanks for this info i will keep it in mind..

4: Switch out the logic board on the hard drive. This must be from the exact same model of hard drive, and should have the exact same assembly/part/revision numbers. That would be hard to find though.

this would be hard to find just like playing loto !!!

Look through the back room and see if any install or backup floppies were stored. Find any, verify readability. Readable: reinstall on new drive.

I will ask again if they do have stored something or trying to get more information about the sorting machine after all it is just a programable atomate :
If some one have a glue for any software that can fit the job ?

I will come back as soon as i have further informations.
any way thank you all once again for suggestions and involvement

it is nice to find some help out there

kind regards

 

[Krille]

Krille, what's the bit about the 5150?

See this thread.

 

[modem7]

for that i need a Western Digital WD1002-27X controller card I PM Stone about it !... waiting for his reply

Are you positive that the card in your FileCard 30 is in fact a WD1002-27X ?
It could be that Western Digital changed the model of card in the FileCard 30 from time to time.
There is a photo of my WD1002-27X on the 'WD1002-27X' link at [here]. Does your card look like that at all?

Also i need to be sure about the eprom located at U32 (the ship is an 88840N 2764AFI pgm 12.5V) on 8088 motherboard 10MHz Turbo Board DTK PIM-TBIO-Z rev.9.

Does someone know where i can find an image of this eprom (or is this specific to this computer)... i have an eprom burner so if a kind soul can provide the eprom image file or know where i can get it.. this could be helpfull to compare the content of the actual eprom with an image.

I have that motherboard. Per the motherboard manual, the normal BIOS found on the motherboard is a DTK/ERSO one. You earlier indicated that the BIOS fitted to your motherboard is a Phoenix one. A ROM image for the DTK/ERSO BIOS on my motherboard is at [here].

 

[techtatan]

hello

sorry for delay, im a bit busy at work

Are you positive that the card in your FileCard 30 is in fact a WD1002-27X ?

yes sir, EU45UEWD1002-27X

A ROM image for the DTK/ERSO BIOS on my motherboard is at

Thanks a lot for that, as soon as i have some time i will compare the content of my bios ship and your image file !

for the moment i'm waiting for the replacement controller.

By the way i booted the computer with an dos diskette an was not able to acces the hard drive !
even if at some time i do not get the 1701 error it all points the hard drive)

My neighbour does not own any backups or installation sources.
furthermore it is a customized Calibrating machine for fruits. so No Serial N°

His only chance is to get data out of that old hard drive !

If there is any good software for this purpose please let me know ..


Kind regards