• Please review our updated Terms and Rules here

new hardware for WWG program/cards

J

Julian H

New Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2009
Messages
7
Location
SC
Hello All,
We have several early/mid 90's portable scientific instruments (spectrum analyzers) consisting of 6 EISA cards that we are still using with DOS 6.22 and WWG 3.11. These instruments reside in custom built portable systems using standard 486-66 motherboards. We need to upgrade the computers to newer systems that still will accept these 6 boards and run a WWG 3.11 program. The system needs to be portable, and could be either a lunch box system or an external EISA card case that interfaces with a modern notebook. The systems worked well at 66MHz with a 500mb Hdd, so we do not need speed or storage; the main thing is the 6 full size slots not including video or disk controllers. Where should I look for such new hardware?
Thanks, JH
 
If the speed, storage, and DOS + Windows combination are still OK why do you need to upgrade at all?

You do know the difference between EISA and ISA cards (I have seen people confuse the two)? A 486/66 EISA motherboard with 6 slots was never standard, which makes me think you are talking ISA.

If it is indeed ISA then you just need to find an industrial backplane and connect a PC on a card to it (lunchbox system you were referring to). Do a google search for "single board computers". Anything sold today is most likely PCI based, but you can probably find ISA cards and backplanes somewhere for legacy systems like what you have.

http://www.industrial-computer-source.com/s-series-single-board-computer/S5491-backplane.htm <== Something like that would hold the CPU card and 8 ISA cards plus allow you to use more common PCI cards for other thing, and fit inside an industrial case.

You will probably run into problems with software coded for DOS/Win 3.1 and modern (too fast) CPU systems. So get a card that is around a Pentium I/II if you can or just test it out.

As far as interfacing with a new notebook you can get a copy of pcanywhere or Timbukto to run on both systems and communicate over ethernet. The laptop would show the desktop of the slave machine allowing you to control it at a distance over a network/internet and allows password protection at the same time.
 
Thanks Unknown_K
I do not know the difference bewteen EISA and ISA so I presume you are correct. The system originally was designed for 386 computers which may prove the point. In fact the old mother board had 8 ISA slots, six for the instrument and the disk controller and graphics card used up the other two. We are looking for replacements because one power supply failed and the built-in screen and graphics system is flakey on another and a connector on the motherboard of another is bad. As to speed, I meant the instrument worked well but sometimes the graphics would not keep up with the instrument, so a little more computer speed would be nice. I agree we do not need the latest and greatest. I will investigate the suggestions you made.

Julian H.
 
If the graphics card/display is having trouble keeping up, a faster CPU is only going to make it worse. Perhaps you're already bumping up against timing issues after going from the '386 to a 486-based system. OTOH, an upgrade of the video board might solve the problem without replacing the whole system. As to the ones that are broken, some of our members are very good at board-level repairs, perhaps you could send the mainboard(s) out for repairs, and save your budget to cover the cost of having your software updated for the time when simple repairs are no longer possible, and you are forced to move to more modern hardware.

--T
 
Hello All
I can confirm the cards are ISA. Board sockets are black and my card's connectors look like the ISA ones. This system was designed before the 486 computers were available, and had a few minor upgrades, and are still being sold today, but I suspect mainly to people who already have them. The new computers are standard lunch box models running a newer operating system, but I am not sure which brand it is or what os is used. The company wants more than they are worth to put the old boards in a new lunch box. My hopes are to get an industrial box without a screen and run the instrument from my laptop using VNC or something similar. I would not need to use the instrument computer for anything else. I may or may not have a bad instrument board that caused the power supply failure. I am still doing some troubleshooting.

Thanks for your help!
Julian H.
 
Did you really mean 'standard' 486-66 motherboards? If so, why not just replace them with the same thing and keep your non-standard enclosures?

Or, if you're going to use a laptop remotely, then any old curb-side 486 system should be adequate as long as it's got 6 available slots, no?

Any chance of a picture or two? What do your lunchboxes use for a display?
 
If it is not too much trouble could you take a few pictures of the hardware setup? It might just be easier to have the broken components replaced, you can still get AT power supplies and have broken connectors replaced.

Was this system custom programmed in C/C++ or was it just a labview setup?
 
stuff

stuff

Julian H said...We are looking for replacements because one power supply failed and the built-in screen and graphics system is flakey on another and a connector on the motherboard of another is bad.
Click to expand...

Where are you guys located ? If you take some pics of the dead power supply, I might have a replacement for it (reasonable cost replacement, not hundreds of dollars type replacement), or, failing that, fix the original PSU, since it's probably just a generic AT-style switcher.
What type of screen does it have, LCD panel ?
Depending on the connector on the motherboard, it might be a quite simple fix as well.

patscc
 
Hello All
Photos below of the instrument- an 8 channel sound and vibration spectrum analyzer. This uses an off the shelf motherboard and there were several types used from time to time. If you look closely, you can see that the CPU heat sink is machined to allow room for the board. These same ISA cards were used in 386 and 486 systems. The cards may be slightly larger than the standard specs for an ISA board. At some point, the manufacturer dropped the custom case design and a lunch box system was purchased to put the cards in. The program was a custom program in C I think. We have three of these systems- one operating with the LCD that occasionally goes nuts, the oldest one which uses a 386 motherboard and is really slow from a GUI perspective, and one we bought for parts- with the bad power supply and pad connector- this is the newest one with a color LCD and most modern ISA boards. We will be happy with two systems working well. It is reasonable to get one in good shape in the original box, but it would be nice to have a faster system on a new platform. We are located in Spartanburg, SC and these are used for vibration analysis and machinery troubleshooting.
Thanks for everyone's help.
JH
 

Attachments

  • SA390.JPG
    SA390.JPG
    57 KB · Views: 1
  • card1sm.jpg
    card1sm.jpg
    70.4 KB · Views: 1
  • connectorsm.jpg
    connectorsm.jpg
    52.7 KB · Views: 1
  • tightsm.jpg
    tightsm.jpg
    69.2 KB · Views: 1
  • mb1sm.jpg
    mb1sm.jpg
    78.2 KB · Views: 1
Looks like a standard AT power supply connector. Not sure why it shorted out at that spot(moisture maybe). You could try just soldering in a new connector (stripped from an old motherboard) and getting a new power supply and see if it runs (cheap). Getting a replacement motherboard is possible but the layouts are all different and you might have issues with clearence on the heatsink with the data cards. Quite a few people here are capable of refurbishing that setup for a fee if you want to ship it out and get it repaired.

Moving to a common Pentium class motherboard will be a problem because those usualy have only a few ISA slots and the rest are PCI. A PC on a card with a backplane will be expensive.
 
hardware

hardware

The Genoa 486 board isn't anything special, just a basic VLB motherboard. Can you guys, since you've already go it out, measure the length & width of the board ?
The keepers will be the video cards you guys have in there for the LCD.

Does the board with the connector still work ? It looks like the +12 & -12 got shorted together, or shorted to ground. The +- 12 might not be critical for your system, though.
Before replacing the connector & applying power to a new one, I'd verify that nothing on the +-12 V power busses is shorted to anything else. By any chance, is the dead PSU & charred connector related ?

There are 486 boards out there where the 486 is in a different position, so you wouldn't have to worry about the heat sink.

Do you know what the 6 cards are ( or can you post pics) ? At least one is the long funky one( presumably this is the spectrum analyzer/acquisition board ), then you've got the LCD video card.
If the other cards are stock cards like hard drive controller, serial & parallel, then newer boards have that functionality embedded on the board, so fewer slots might not be a problem.

I think your boxes are all repairable/upgradable for reasonable money. If you guys want to do it yourselves, keep posting, if you want someone to do it, drop them a PM to see if they're interested. (Myself included, hint, hint...)
patscc
 
I'm guessing that the one having trouble with the screen keeping up is the older, mono one. Those old LCD displays are notoriously slow, so a faster mainboard and/or video board will not help that, and may even make the problem worse. Are they used as portables, or stay pretty much in one spot? Is an external display a possibility?

--T
 
Unknown_K said:
Moving to a common Pentium class motherboard will be a problem because those usualy have only a few ISA slots and the rest are PCI.
Click to expand...

My Pentium has six ISA slots and two PCI. It was only when you got into PIIs that PCI started to really take over.
 
Dell

Dell

Fallo said...It may only have two PCI slots because it's a proprietary motherboard and they tend to be weird like that
Click to expand...
Are you sure that's not the slot for the riser card that a lot of Dell's used to have ?
patscc
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top