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PDP 11/45, Part 4

PDPGUI automatically loads the bootstrap and absolute loaders, you are supposed to simply load the tape into memory and use the deposit tool to send to the machine. You then run from the start address of the program, you may need to use the disassemble tool to determine where to start. IN most diagnostics' case that's address 200.

If you're downloading manually like a papertape then yes you'd need to follow the papertape handbook process running bootstraps manually. You may need to take the M9312 out not sure if it conflicts with running manually (I would think not but would try if you're stuck)
 
Hi All;

The Last time I tried to 'Run PDPGUI it was too confusing or it didn't work as stated..
Possibly, the Problem was Operator Error, from Not Understand what was needed or what was wanted to make the program work..
OR,
That Possibly that either one or both of my Bootstrap boards are broke in either the same or in different ways..
And that affects, why I can't make PDPGUI work..
OR,
A combination of ALL of the above..
I can try it again, if You think it might help..

THANK YOU Marty
 
Actually why not try without? You just have to be sure you're loading the bootstraps and they're ok with a serial terminal and not a teletype.

Honestly, that's what I have been asking since day 1 - can you run XXDP on a 11/40 in particular with a M9312, CONSOLE / DIAG ROM, and PDPGUI? I was wondering if anyone has ever done this. Not emulated it, real machine done it. The 11/45 is close enough to the 11/40 in the ways that matter to the subject of loading to try it a different way. If you can pull it off I can try to duplicate.

OR if you can make the PDPGUI route work on an 11/45 that tells me there is something wrong with my 11/40, the processes I am using, or who knows.
 
Hi All;

Bill, Thank You for Your Input, a couple of Questions..

"" Actually why not try without? ""
Without who ?? Without an M9312 ??

"" You just have to be sure you're loading the bootstraps and they're ok with a serial terminal and not a teletype. ""
That Part I have worked out, at least with Tera-Term.. So, That should be OK..

And then Run, PDPGUI,
Or Leave In the M9312 and try to Run PDPGUI ??
Also, I can try it both ways with the M9301, as well..

THANK YOU Marty
 
#1 Use the DL11 only to load the papertape as one experiment. That means toggle in the boot loader, load the abs loader tape, load the program tape - as if you were mimicking that one would do with a teletype to load a program. There are three steps to load, then front panel to load / run program if necessary.

OR #2
Load the program tape directly using the M9312 and PDPGUI. IN that case you need only load the program tape. PDPGUI takes care of the absolute loader part. You can run the program from the console prompt.

OR #3 a hybrid - use the M9312 and teraterm, but not PDPGUI
 
Hi All;

OK, Bill !! I Will do.. Thank You for the Clarification..
For #1 I will pull the Bootstrap card, I have just a little while ago did this with the M9301 Card in.. So, it will be a good Experiment to Try it without any Board in, and just a Terminator Board in place..

I will Let everyone know the Results after each Experiment..

I did it by hand, I verified it, I tried to Run it, and it didn't work.. But, I think It still was/is Operator ERROR !!

So, I put in the M9301 Board, Set Load Address to '173364 which is for 'TT Loader.. Raised Halt to Enable it and Pressed Start..
I then Loader the Absolute Loader, it stopped at Address '157500, I Pressed CONT, and I Loaded one of the Programs that I know Works..
When it stopped Loading, I set Load Address at '200 And pressed Start and Ran the Program..

So, I am going to try Scenario #2 with Both Boards, first with the M9301 , and then with the M9312 Board..

So, I realize, first I need to copy/transfer PDPGUI to my other PC which Is what I use to attach to the Serial Port on the 11/45, It has a Real Serial Port..

OK, I think I got PDPGUI to work on my PC, and it Shows something after running connect/settings..
I am not Sure if this is correct, or What to do NEXT ..

001.jpg


It shows it at Address 173400, but TT Load is at Address 173364, and it Doesn't like anything that I type in..

I replaced the M9301, with the M9312, and closed out PDPGUI , Restarted it, did a Reconnect and a connect, it shows that it sees an M9312,
Otherwise it does almost exactly the same thing..
The only difference is the M9301 shows a $ as the prompt, and the M9312 shows an @ sign at the Prompt..


THANK YOU Marty
 
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With an M9301/M9312 in a PDP11, and the console emulator enabled, you should be able to load .BIN (or .BIC) program images directly via the PDP11GUI 'Memory Loader' menu option, using the 'Standard Absolute Paper Tape Image' option. Using the standalone PDP11 absolute loader image is not required in this situation, as PDP11GUI is doing that processing for you. This is the simplest, albeit slowest, way to load programs into memory.

Alternatively, without PDP11GUI you can use the 'TT' bootstrap option in the M9312 (or equivalent in the M9301). Once this is invoked it will put the 'bootstrap loader' (as documented on the PDP-11 Programmers Reference Card) into high memory and jump to it. You are then expected to feed the absolute loader tape image to the bootstrap. Then when the absolute loader is given control you can feed .BIN/.BIC tape images to it for loading. This would be done by sending binary files thru TeraTerm in binary mode, for example.

Using PDP11GUI to load absolute tape images via ascii console commands (the first paragraph) is the simplest process but it is much slower than using the bootstrap and absolute loader (ie, two data bytes in the absolute loader can take up to nine ascii characters to represent). So loading very long .BIN files will be 2X to 4X slower.
 
Hi A;

Don, Thank You for Your Reply, Let me try some things and see if I remotely Understand what You are telling me..

I will be back with plenty of Questions..

First, two Questions, One do I connect it as a Physical M9301 Over Serial Port OR as an Internal with M9301 ??

Secondly, So far, I have gone over to the Memory Loader Pull down and under Memory Loader and under File Format - I have Standard Absolute Paper Tape Image..
Under File Image - I have C:pDP-11\maindec-11-dzmmf-a-pb.bin ..
I them Press Load and it shows a map listing of that Program in Octal..
But, when I go to the Actual Memory, there is nothing there ??


THANK YOU Marty
 
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Hi All;

But, for the Present, I am using the M9301, as I can Load from it Via TeraTerm, and so I want to Know 'HOW' to do the same with PDPGUI..
Once I have the Procedure down and working with the M9301, them, I figure We can work on getting the M9312 to Load in any form, and after that to Load with PDPGUI..
As the M9312 will Run 'ZZ' , but as far as I can tell Nothing Else.. (TT or DD)..
"" You need the 760A9 ASR33 ROM to run TT. ""
Which is What I have in the M9312, along with the DD (765B9)..
And the M9301 will Load via TeraTerm, but, I don't know how to make it work with PDPGUI..
The Rom's in the M9301 are 480-483A9..

THANK YOU Marty
 
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With PDP11GUI you would use the 'memory loader' option 'byte stream low byte high byte' to mimic using TeraTerm to send binary files thru the console port.

So with the M9312 under PDP11GUI, you would get to the console prompt, type 'TT', then use the above option to send the absolute loader image, then send the .BIN program image.

Note that your console port must be operating in 8b mode to be able to send binary thru PDP11 GUI (but likely it already is anyway given your post).
 
Up to this point I have been using the Console and memory loader but not the TT module to load abs loader image, then send the .BIN program image. I have just been sending the BIN file and running it.

I thought the abs loader was now integrated into the PDPGUI and you don't need to load the abs loader anymore.

b
 
Hi All;

Bill, Thank You for Your Response..
"" Up to this point I have been using the Console and memory loader but not the TT module to load abs loader image, then send the .BIN program image. I have just been sending the BIN file and running it. ""

Could You TELL me HOW You do this ?? How are You set up in PDPGUI and what Menu's do You use to accomplish this ??

THANK YOU Marty
 
billdeg said:
Up to this point I have been using the Console and memory loader but not the TT module to load abs loader image, then send the .BIN program image. I have just been sending the BIN file and running it.

I thought the abs loader was now integrated into the PDPGUI and you don't need to load the abs loader anymore.

b
Click to expand...

The absolute loader (the code that loads .BIN file images, or basically paper tape images) is integrated into PDP11GUI when you use the 'absolute loader / standard paper tape image' file format loader, but PDP11GUI then uses console load/deposit ascii commands to send data over to the PDP11 to stick in memory at the correct location. As I mentioned in a prior post this comes at a cost, as loading programs using this method is 2X to 4X slower than a direct binary load.

So yes, the absolute loader is integrated, but with the above caveat. If you need to load large program images efficiently then using the binary send option of PDP11GUI with the PDP11 resident absolute loader downloaded is necessary.

Theoretically you could use a .BIN formatted absolute binary loader paper tape image (don't know if this exists) that PDP11GUI could download in 'absolute paper tape format' mode, and then switch to 'binary download mode' to send .BIN format files directly to the running loader on the PDP11 side.
 
Hi All;

Don, Thank You for Your Response.. But, Your Answers skirt all around the issue of HOW do I do this, at this point I don't care How Slow it IS, I just would like it to do what You are telling me to do..
BUT, It still Doesn't tell me What and How to do this ?!?!
I have the M9301 plugged into the 11/45, I have PDPGUI talking to it , somewhat..
So, I type in TT, and go to Memory Load, I changed to Low byte high byte format and Press the "Load " square and it Doesn't load into the 11/45..
So, what am I missing, I am sorry about my getting upset, but I am like Bill, not getting the Answers that I need to make this happen..

THANK YOU Marty
 
Marty said:
Hi All;

Don, Thank You for Your Response.. But, Your Answers skirt all around the issue of HOW do I do this, at this point I don't care How Slow it IS, I just would like it to do what You are telling me to do..
BUT, It still Doesn't tell me What and How to do this ?!?!
I have the M9301 plugged into the 11/45, I have PDPGUI talking to it , somewhat..
So, I type in TT, and go to Memory Load, I changed to Low byte high byte format and Press the "Load " square and it Doesn't load into the 11/45..
So, what am I missing, I am sorry about my getting upset, but I am like Bill, not getting the Answers that I need to make this happen..

THANK YOU Marty
Click to expand...

For now I would forget about TT and the standalone absolute loader and just use PDP11GUI "memory loader" -> "standard absolute paper tape image" mode.

This has PDP11GUI read .BIN (or .BIC - same format) files on your PC, parse them, and then output load address / deposit ascii commands for your M9301 or M9312.

This really is the simplest most direct way to push programs down to your PDP11.

Once your PDP11 is working 100% reliably then you can go back to TT / absolute loader as a performance enhancement.

Don
 
Hi All;

Don, OK, I will try that even though I don't still understand How to do it..
I know since You do it every day, You forget how hard it is for someone like me to follow You Simple instructions.. I get lost..
"" parse them, and then output load address / deposit ascii commands for your M9301 or M9312. ""
How do I Parse them ?? and How does it send it to the M93xx ??

I am firing up my other PC right now and then the 11/45..


OK, Don as I asked Earlier, I am on the Connections Settings mode , Now..
I am using the M9301 Bootstrap Board, My switches on the 11/45 are set to 17300 and I have loaded that address and Presses START..

On the Connection Setting mode (So we are both talking apples and apples and not apples and Oranges)
Do I set PDP-11 Target (to) Physical PDP-11 with M9301 over serial port
OR
Do I set PDP-11 Target (to) Internal PDP-11 with M9301 fake (self test) ??

THANK YOU Marty
 
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Marty said:
Hi All;

Don, OK, I will try that even though I don't still understand How to do it..
I know since You do it every day, You forget how hard it is for someone like me to follow You Simple instructions.. I get lost..
"" parse them, and then output load address / deposit ascii commands for your M9301 or M9312. ""
How do I Parse them ?? and How does it send it to the M93xx ??
Click to expand...

The parsing and sending is done by PDP11GUI. You don't have to do anything specific other than use the 'standard absolute' mode in the PDP11GUI 'memory loader'.

I am firing up my other PC right now and then the 11/45..

OK, Don as I asked Earlier, I am on the Connections Settings mode , Now..
I am using the M9301 Bootstrap Board, My switches on the 11/45 are set to 17300 and I have loaded that address and Presses START..

On the Connection Setting mode (So we are both talking apples and apples and not apples and Oranges)
Do I set PDP-11 Target (to) Physical PDP-11 with M9301 over serial port
OR
Do I set PDP-11 Target (to) Internal PDP-11 with M9301 fake (self test) ??

THANK YOU Marty
Click to expand...

You need to select "PDP-11 Target (to) Physical PDP-11 with M9301 over serial port". Internal PDP-11 modes in PDP11GUI launch a copy of SIMH PDP11 emulator, so you don't want to use any of the 'internal' modes for your h/w testing.

Then under the PDP11GUI 'connection' -> 'settings' menu you need to connect to the correct serial port on your PC, and select the correct baud rate.
 
Hi All;

THANK YOU, Don, That IS Exactly what I needed to Know !!

""Then under the PDP11GUI 'connection' -> 'settings' menu you need to connect to the correct serial port on your PC, and select the correct baud rate. ""
That is already set correctly for this PC..

Also, do I put Anything in the Monitor entry Address Box or leave it Blank ??


"" The parsing and sending is done by PDP11GUI. You don't have to do anything specific other than use the 'standard absolute' mode in the PDP11GUI 'memory loader'. ""

I have done that before, but It still doesn't Send it to the Real 11/45, it shows a mapping and it looks like the program is there, but, it's still not in the 11/45 Memory ?? And I don't know HOW to put it there..

Also, am I starting the 11/45 at the Correct starting Address @17300 for it to Receive data ??

OK, I got it to Transfer,
NO ONE said anything about Pressing the Deposit Square to do the Transfers..

THANK YOU Marty
 
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