Stay away from tvrsales on ebay

[chalackd]

I have to admit, that if they offered international shipping I'd probably bid on a couple items...

It's a tragedy to see a prominent collection like this broken down, with a lot of it likely to just disappear, and to see a prominent collector like that get basically shut down. But really, after reading what info is out there on this it's really just a matter of business and I can't really see the landlord or especially the recyclers being in the wrong here. It's a sad situation but it could be worse, at least they're putting the effort into selling some of the items back out instead of just throwing it all into an e-waste dumpster (which honestly is all that boycotting the sales could lead to...).

 

[MikeS]

...I am of the mindset: Buy while you can.

Agreed! Unfortunate as the circumstances may be, this has created some real opportunities for collectors and I don't see what is gained by threatening and discouraging folks on the various collectors' lists from participating. It'll be interesting to see how many of these items wind up being resold for higher prices in a little while...

 

[Unknown_K]

Ebay is littered with old equipment from bankrupt companies, dead collectors, stolen items, and storage lockers people could not afford anymore. If a recycler is selling this stuff then anything that does not sell gets recycled. At best the previous owner might get the value the items sold for if they were taken illegally, but I think he is SOL.

 

[1980s_john]

A sad story to be sure...

Don't let it happen to you!

I guess this story will be repeated by various individuals, any time a lot of goods are stored in a 3rd party's property. For us computer collectors, there are several things to ponder, such as:
- should I have quite so much stuff in one place, should I sell / give away to reduce my hoard?
- should I partner up with others eg a museum and reduce the risk of losing a valuable collection?
- what if... eg death / illness / lose job / divorce etc.?

Sobering stuff, I feel sorry for VCF, I'm sure he did what he could under the circumstances, but like most of us he hadn't expected the unexpected.

Regards,
John

 

[MikeS]

I guess this story will be repeated by various individuals, any time a lot of goods are stored in a 3rd party's property. For us computer collectors, there are several things to ponder, such as:
- should I have quite so much stuff in one place, should I sell / give away to reduce my hoard?
- should I partner up with others eg a museum and reduce the risk of losing a valuable collection?
- what if... eg death / illness / lose job / divorce etc.?

Sobering stuff, I feel sorry for VCF, I'm sure he did what he could under the circumstances, but like most of us he hadn't expected the unexpected.

Regards,
John

How about 'should I pay my rent on time' ?

I think one item alone out of that hoard just sold for $4000; that would have paid the back rent and then some, with some left over, and avoided this whole fiasco...

 

[barythrin]

He started to sell the collection before things fell apart but it was similar where the audience I think had a lot of the stuff or not enough resources to help much.

 

[MikeS]

He started to sell the collection before things fell apart but it was similar where the audience I think had a lot of the stuff or not enough resources to help much.

From my reading this started back before July of last year and the first I saw of Sellam trying to sell anything was in November or December by which time things had indeed fallen apart ...

I'll say it again: if he'd mentioned something to the community about the dilemma he was in back in July or so instead of stalling, threatening his landlord etc. until it was too late, I'm sure some members would have stepped up and helped out in one way or another.

And now he's threatening to sue any members of this community (which has been so supportive over the years) if they buy any of his stuff from TVRsales etc. (instead of sitting by and watching other folks snap it up)...

 

[ebaybrad1]

It is a bit of a blind threat since he cannot know the names of the purchasers. Ebay has concealed this from the public for quite sometime. You would need quite a bit of resource to get a subpeona against ebay to release the information by court order. With that said, I feel bad for him, the loss of control over the situation, and the loss of such a prize possession.

 

[mbbrutman]

Sellam had also threatened to report all of those items in the auctions as stolen property. It does not seem to have stopped the auctions.

 

[Unknown_K]

Sellam had also threatened to report all of those items in the auctions as stolen property. It does not seem to have stopped the auctions.

He can say whatever he likes. If somebody breaks into my house the police will list the items gone as stolen, if I don't pay my rent for half a year and my stuff ends up in the lawn and taken then getting anything listed as stolen is not going to happen.

 

[Mos6502]

If one really felt sorry for him they could buy items and donate them back. But there wouldn't be much of a point if he doesn't have space for them. Maybe the community should get a group together and make the seller an offer on the whole lot, and ensure the best stuff finds a safe home. Away from the hands of profiteers or scrappers (or even people who don't properly store their collections).

 

[barythrin]

That's the problem. Too much money to buy it and donate or even likely buy it at today's value and sell back. Who added the poll?! Interestingly enough there's a dumb way to know who bought things on ebay even with the name masking that I won't go into but most folks can guess. However I don't think there's much ability or action going after a buyer other than the theory of if they know it's stolen property however a boycott of the sellers is fine if everyone knew. But naturally things are selling regardless which sucks as a museum is being auctioned off and lost. I even considered trying to reason with them or talk off ebay about trying to keep or donate things but I'm nowhere near there to do anything about it and don't have any money to persuade them otherwise. I definitely think they're profiting off of this ordeal though and not just paying back payments. Just unethical so I can't buy anything from them or the other names they've created to sell things with.

 

[mbbrutman]

If one really felt sorry for him they could buy items and donate them back. But there wouldn't be much of a point if he doesn't have space for them. Maybe the community should get a group together and make the seller an offer on the whole lot, and ensure the best stuff finds a safe home. Away from the hands of profiteers or scrappers (or even people who don't properly store their collections).

Keep in mind that VCF was both a personal collection *and* a business. Sellam was consulting, serving as an expert witness, renting out props for movies, etc. It was not a museum.

While it is unfortunate, I reserve most of my charity for family, close friends, and registered charities. His threats to sue everybody who gets near his former collection (whether plausible or not) do not endear him to many people

 

[Mos6502]

Keep in mind that VCF was both a personal collection *and* a business. Sellam was consulting, serving as an expert witness, renting out props for movies, etc. It was not a museum.

I wasn't suggesting (or under the impression) that it was. Rather I was suggesting that the collection contained items that would be worthy of keeping in a museum or at least together in a cohesive collection. If rare items disappear forever it's worse for everybody.

 

[mbbrutman]

I understand that was not your intention. But for the benefit of others, it's important to be clear on what the VCF collection was, or was not.

 

[1980s_john]

I feel for the guy in losing his life's work. Truly, I do. But honestly... he has absolutely no one to blame but himself. And therein lies the tragedy.

Have a further read of VCF's account, I read that he had problems away from this collection which were taking up his time and effort. We all have responsibilities and other things and people to worry about, and sometimes things like rent on storage get a low priority. I get the impression this other stuff is private and not for discussion or speculation, but I agree the community could have helped if asked. Maybe he was too proud to come begging for help. Please see my earlier post about the lessons to be learnt - no one is a winner here.

Regards,
John

 

[MikeS]

Have a further read of VCF's account, I read that he had problems away from this collection which were taking up his time and effort. We all have responsibilities and other things and people to worry about, and sometimes things like rent on storage get a low priority.

Have you looked at the size of the collection/hoard? We're not talking about a small storage unit here and considering its value and importance, not only historically but to Sellam himself since it was part of his livelihood, he should have given it a somewhat higher priority and either sold one or two pieces or borrowed the money from someone other than his landlord in the six months or so before the landlord finally lost his patience. I doubt that the landlord was as sympathetic as some of us are to Sellam's excuses that he had other things taking up his time and effort and maybe he'd deal with the landlord's request in a couple of months when he was good and ready.

And, knowing Sellam a little bit, I doubt that his acerbic and often quite rude attitude helped any.

I see on the CClist that in his zeal he's now even claiming ownership of a Hazeltine terminal on eBay that was clearly not a part of his collection... ;-)

- no one is a winner here.

I'd say that the folks buying and selling his stuff are definitely winners...

 

[Mos6502]

Have a further read of VCF's account, I read that he had problems away from this collection which were taking up his time and effort. We all have responsibilities and other things and people to worry about, and sometimes things like rent on storage get a low priority. I get the impression this other stuff is private and not for discussion or speculation, but I agree the community could have helped if asked. Maybe he was too proud to come begging for help. Please see my earlier post about the lessons to be learnt - no one is a winner here.

Regards,
John

According to the affidavit he was dealing with a foreclosure on his home. I'd probably save my home first too, but then again if my business is my income, I might not. I wouldn't want to be in his shoes either way.

TVR sales tells me that they have 200 pallets worth of items, but they would not provide an inventory. They did however say that they would be ok with selling it in lots and willing to let a buyer come to see the collection in person. Given how much is apparently there, I think we can be hopeful that nothing important has gone in the trash (yet).

 

[Great Hierophant]

Maybe the folks buying, but if I were the landlord, I would hardly include myself among the winners, just a survivor. He has a mountain of stuff to get rid of little idea of the value. It will have to be stored somewhere so the landlord can re-rent the unit.

He would have serious legal and logistical problems if he tried to sue anyone who purchased from a reseller of his collection. First he needs to get relief from the courts, then go after people disbursed around the country, if not world. I'm shaking at the thought of such a threat.

 

[Mos6502]

Maybe the folks buying, but if I were the landlord, I would hardly include myself among the winners, just a survivor. He has a mountain of stuff to get rid of little idea of the value. It will have to be stored somewhere so the landlord can re-rent the unit.

He would have serious legal and logistical problems if he tried to sue anyone who purchased from a reseller of his collection. First he needs to get relief from the courts, then go after people disbursed around the country, if not world. I'm shaking at the thought of such a threat.

Well I don't know about sue, but if he could prove that it was stolen and then sold - the items would legally have to be returned to him, and ebay leaves a pretty easy trail for tracking down who ended up with what. I don't think he has much of a case though for it being "stolen", he might have a better case for some of his other complaints against his landlord - but he did have the opportunity to remove his property and it wasn't moved in time.