Tandy 3800 HD Repair/Restoration

[Conmega]

Ok... Where to start... Well I guess I can start with when and how I acquired it.
I got this laptop with its carrying bag and charger for Christmas from my grandfather about 4 years ago. He was moving into a new office at his work place and found it in the closet!!! He snatched it up knowing I loved old electronics and well electronics in general and gave it to me for Christmas! To be honest it was the most awesome present I had ever gotten! :mrgreen:
At the time I was 13 I think and well he hadn't done anything with it so I plugged it in noticing the battery being completely covered in corrosion took it out and just ran it off the power plug. It turned on and gave me this and still does give me this:
"Phoenix 80386 ROM BIOS PLUS Version 3.10.04
Copyright (C) 1985-1990 Technologies Ltd.
All Rights Reserved


640k Base Memory, 03072k Extended (this originally had lower extended ram but I bought two 1mb 30pin sticks to install)
Invalid configuration information - please run SETUP program
Diskette drive 0 seek failure (have the floppy drive out atm... trying to repair it...)

No book device available -
strike F1 to retry boot"

That's basically where I've been... for 4 years...
There is SOOO LITTLE info on this thing... Last night when searching for info again after a year or two of not touching it while it sat torn open waiting for me to fix it I found these forums...
Being 16 now and understanding it a little better I found some info about someone having one and knowing what it is!
I joined the forums and am now posting this for as much help as I can get with this!
I'd really love to see it running!
So now that all that is over I'll review the specs...

This laptop is a Tandy 3800 HD It has a Cyrix Cx486SLC as it's processor.
It has a 60MB Conner CP2064 hard drive in it.
It also has a EME-263MG floppy drive in it.
This laptop also has an Internal FAX/Modem Card (25-3532) installed.
I've installed two 1MB 30pin memory sticks in aswell.

Now to the dreadful part...
The problems...

Well to start... It appears the HD is dead... When in the laptop it spins up for a bit then stops... then spins up again... then stops... It doesn't appear to be seen at all by the laptop... I've made a adapter to adapt it to my desktop computer with standard IDE and I tested the adapter before hand with a different drive and double checked all my soldering so the adapter worked... But I put in the 60MB hard drive and got the same results as in the laptop... spun up and stopped... spun up and stopped... It wasn't seen by the bios or by windows... So obviously there is a problem with the HD... If it's dead or not I have no idea... I was hoping you guys could help with that!

Another problem is the floppy drive... I took it out tore it apart that two years ago and it needed a new belt... not finding anything suitable... that's when I left it to sit... I have now since found some suppliers for belts... BUT I already threw out the old belt years ago... so a belt spec or part number would be great!
I tried to temporarily fit a rubber band in there to test and see if it'd work... It spun up but it sounded like it was having trouble... like the band was too tight... but... I also noticed the heads didn't move at all... I'm hoping it doesn't move them if the drive doesn't get up to speed and thus they didn't move because i think it wasn't spinning fast enough... (Yes I made sure everything was connected to the driver board... as it should be...) But... If that's not the case then is my head driver motor is bad too? Also silly little problem... heh... I may have lost a few screws for the floppy drive... I should be able to take some screws form another laptop that will fit... But I wanted to make sure I am putting enough screws in and not too many... I'm pretty sure I'm missing three... two that hold the driver board down... and one that holds the back of the main driver motor down... If that makes sense... I can take pictures of all this later... Make a video if needed...

I've cleaned the battery out years ago also and forgot what type's of batteries and how many should be put back in the plastic shell of the battery!

So yea... Any help at all would be appreciated!
Also thanks to everyone who contributes to this forum considering its the ONLY place I've found info on this laptop other then radioshack's site...
here: http://support.radioshack.com/support_computer/1470.htm
and here: http://support.radioshack.com/produ...=Tandy Laptops and Portable Computers&Reuse=N
Don't quite know why there are two... but one does have some more info on it so...
Anyway thanks for any help anyone may give me!

 

[leeb]

You're welcome!


As I said in my blog... the HD MOST LIKELY has a stuck head assembly... If you CAREFULLY remove the cover and CAREFULLY move the head assembly opposite the head end, you will be able to make the 'adjustment' similar to what I did.

It will likely power right up and still have data on it too! Unless they wiped it, of course.

VERY jelly about the faxmodem... I have one but it is COMPLETELY corroded out... very sad.
:D

 

[Conmega]

Thanks again for the help... It's great to know I must now to hard drive surgery :dontgeti:
If there is data it will most likely be very interesting! I'll be sure to tell you about it if I don't kill the drive
I've taken apart HD's before but never put them back together...
Also which is better the fax/modem or the modem? Becuase there are two different ones as the Tandy's addons list says.
I have no idea about the difference... I somewhat know what a modem is but... I think I've grown up always using regular CAT internet ports and plugs... I started using a computer when I was only two so 1999 would be that time... I remember having my own computer at the age of around... 4-5 maybe older.. it was an old windows 95 probably a Pentium I or II don't remember... But yea more about myself...

 

[leeb]

Faxmodems were the rage when emails did not send images as attachments...
IIRC the faxmodem was the faster version... the other being a 1200 baud rather than 2400....

 

[Conmega]

ah ok! well i should be able to try and fix the HD in an hour or so I'll get back when I do also alittle more info on how I'm moving the head... i dont want to break them or scratch the disks...

 

[leeb]

Just make sure you do not push on the head end itself... at non-rotating-speed sliding across the perfectly-clean surface will not be a problem.

EDIT:

If it has a copy of AUTOCAD on it, I WANT ONE!!!

 

[Conmega]

Actually... It's entirely possible it could have it... My grandfather worked with it were he was at... He worked at a military base... So... Interesting stuff to find indeed... I just didn't think with how old it was and only grayscale monitor it could run it... But it is possible it might have it

Edit:

Also... last thing I'll ask promise! But what about dust getting in the HD? That was always a big warning of opening hard drives... I guess I really shouldn't be long should I... Just open it move the head and close right? Not more then like 30 sec.

Edit:

Maybe not the last question... I have opened the drive twice now for a short period of time... both times I did the 'adjustment' I think you meant for me to do? The first time the head really did feel stuck in the center of the disk (there was a faint ring of were it was spinning in place there) and so I pushed lightly on the head till it budged to the outer edge of the disk... then i put it in and tried it... i heard it spin up and one movement of the head... then nothing... it just spun a bit and stopped like it had before... the second time it was stuck in the center a little less tightly then it was before... but i moved it as far to the edge as i could make it go and closed it up again and tried again with the same results... am I doing something wrong or missing something from your 'adjustment'? I feel so close yet so far! Also I can buy the belt for the floppy drive... but about my previous problem of not seeing it's head move... was it just because it wasn't spinning fast enough? or is there more wrong with my floppy drive...

 

[Paralel]

As far as your HD, I've seen this happen on old Mac's. It's something known as "stiction", and it's caused by a breakdown at the molecular level of the lubricant used on the platter. Once it's as bad as you've described, I haven't heard of anyone successfully reviving a drive.

Regarding the floppy, if the tension isn't just right, it may not work correctly, so I wouldn't venture that the head isn't moving due to a fault separate from the drive belt being crap.

BTW, Hi! I'm the guy from YouTube. Glad you found this place.

Even if your hard drive and floppy drive have gone to crap, I have some spare parts that you may be able to use that I salvaged. I'd be happy to part with them once leeb is able to send along what I'm interested in. (Hi leeb!)

 

[Conmega]

Ok hopefully getting the new belt will fix the floppy I'll order that now and hopefully it'll be here when I get back from my trip all next week!
The belt was actually if I remember correctly dried out not melted luckily!
leeb sent me this link to a belt
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MSX-2-2-Rub...326?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d0c2e2c16
I'm sure he knows that it will work but I wouldn't mind a second opinion before throwing 25$ for a small belt :?
As for the HD its really sad that there is no current way to fix it... I'd like to at least fix it just to rip the data off quickly then I guess I'll be looking for a new HD... I'm truly interested on what could be on it... You said it's stiction but when I look it up its when the head is STUCK to the disk not stuck only in one position while the disk itself could spin... and mine spins but the arm stays in the center of the disk while it spins...
Well if I get the data off I guess it'll become a paper weight after that... Be an interesting paper weight considering my name is Connor and the brand name is Conner
Hopefully I can get another hard drive from someone... preferably one that closely matches the time period and the size... I like to keep things original
Also what spare parts may you have that could help me?

Edit: Now that i think about it when the I had the drive open the head seemed to magnetize to the center of the disk with a magnet at the back of the voice coil... I've seen this in some newer HD's I've taken apart... like a magnet that keeps it in place while not being used to keep it from swinging back and forth during transport... But it appears the HD isn't moving the arm out from that magnetized position... and now that I think about it it may not even be trying to move the arm at all! because when i manually moved it from the center to the outer edge it sounded like it just naturally slid to the center from spinning up then stuck back in place... So maybe the controller board is bad???

Edit: I found a guy on ebay who sells a few older drives and claims they work and that he tested them and it says 'seller refurbished' I have a feeling hes just salvaged these drives in bulk then just tested them cleaned them on the outside and sold them... but he has quite a few conner 60mb drives so might buy one from him...
http://myworld.ebay.com/brickcollector?_trksid=p2047675.l2559
the drive:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CONNER-CP20...Internal_Hard_Disk_Drives&hash=item483b471c37

 

[leeb]

Actually... It's entirely possible it could have it... My grandfather worked with it were he was at... He worked at a military base... So... Interesting stuff to find indeed... I just didn't think with how old it was and only grayscale monitor it could run it... But it is possible it might have it

Edit:

Also... last thing I'll ask promise! But what about dust getting in the HD? That was always a big warning of opening hard drives... I guess I really shouldn't be long should I... Just open it move the head and close right? Not more then like 30 sec.

Edit:

Maybe not the last question... I have opened the drive twice now for a short period of time... both times I did the 'adjustment' I think you meant for me to do? The first time the head really did feel stuck in the center of the disk (there was a faint ring of were it was spinning in place there) and so I pushed lightly on the head till it budged to the outer edge of the disk... then i put it in and tried it... i heard it spin up and one movement of the head... then nothing... it just spun a bit and stopped like it had before... the second time it was stuck in the center a little less tightly then it was before... but i moved it as far to the edge as i could make it go and closed it up again and tried again with the same results... am I doing something wrong or missing something from your 'adjustment'? I feel so close yet so far! Also I can buy the belt for the floppy drive... but about my previous problem of not seeing it's head move... was it just because it wasn't spinning fast enough? or is there more wrong with my floppy drive...

You're saying that it does not move from the center of the drive BUT the platter easily spins underneath it?
What is the model number of the drive? Is it a Conner CP2024/2064?
How long did you leave it spinning before you stopped?

The FDs head may NOT move if it cannot sense the spinning of the capstan.. tho if you force it toward center THEN power it up it is likely to attempt to assure that it is at track 0... often it only moves toward center but after a bit it will seek all the way back.


??? Just what kind of filth do you live in that you cant leave an old HD open for the time it takes to watch it run?
Kidding, of course, but you really needn't be concerned unless you just fluffed up an area rug or such... as long as there is no obvious dirt in the air you can get away with running it open... these older drives are FAR more tolerant compared to the newer ones!
Plug it in (OPENED) W/O the display attached, and power it up. Give it a chance and see if it starts seeking various areas of the drive.

IF YOU LIKE, I am willing to attempt to salvage it for you... if I can. I also have a 2064 that I would be willing to sell cheaply. You can PM me and we will work out details.

Paralel.... I almost have it ready. Will be sending you an email with findings and details... and prices

:D

 

[Conmega]

Ok I'll go try and run it open right now... I'll actually record a video for you and upload it to youtube so you can see for yourself!

 

[leeb]

BE VEEEEEERY CAREFUL about removing the drive from the connectors!!!

The ribbon cable is VERY FRAGILE... and it IS POSSIBLE to damage it while disconnecting from the computer.


... guess I shoulda said that before, huh.

 

[Conmega]

Ok video is uploading!
http://youtu.be/su1Rg2KfQSE
Also you don't have to sell anything to me if you don't want I can always buy one of the similar ones off ebay...
Also about you salvaging it what kind of witch craftery would you be trying on it? Just putting in parts from other drives seeing if it'll work?
Oh BTW I will buy the belt for the floppy drive ASAP if your sure it'll work.
I'll be honest and I'm afraid I've killed that drive anyway... When I opened it once to move the heads I tapped the disk very lightly with a screwdriver putting a scratch about 1.5mm long in it
You may be able to retrieve some data which is what I'm hoping for... but I've just been kicking myself in the head over my mistake...

 

[Conmega]

Oh... I never noticed it being TOO fragile... I've removed and replaced the thing multiple times now with no problem... Obviously I'm being careful... but it doesn't seem that fragile to me...

 

[leeb]

As far as your HD, I've seen this happen on old Mac's. It's something known as "stiction", and it's caused by a breakdown at the molecular level of the lubricant used on the platter. Once it's as bad as you've described, I haven't heard of anyone successfully reviving a drive.

Regarding the floppy, if the tension isn't just right, it may not work correctly, so I wouldn't venture that the head isn't moving due to a fault separate from the drive belt being crap.

BTW, Hi! I'm the guy from YouTube. Glad you found this place.

Even if your hard drive and floppy drive have gone to crap, I have some spare parts that you may be able to use that I salvaged. I'd be happy to part with them once leeb is able to send along what I'm interested in. (Hi leeb!)

Hai!

Obviously you've never heard of the 'Turn it over and slam it against the table' approach... a common event in the olden-times of 5 1/4" 10lb 5mb HDs... particularly Seagates.

MANY an irreplaceable piece of data/programming has been saved in just this way!
Truth!

:D

 

[leeb]

Ok video is uploading!
http://youtu.be/su1Rg2KfQSE
Also you don't have to sell anything to me if you don't want I can always buy one of the similar ones off ebay...
Also about you salvaging it what kind of witch craftery would you be trying on it? Just putting in parts from other drives seeing if it'll work?
Oh BTW I will buy the belt for the floppy drive ASAP if your sure it'll work.
I'll be honest and I'm afraid I've killed that drive anyway... When I opened it once to move the heads I tapped the disk very lightly with a screwdriver putting a scratch about 1.5mm long in it
You may be able to retrieve some data which is what I'm hoping for... but I've just been kicking myself in the head over my mistake...

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT!!!!!!

Where? Outer edge? Inner edge? somewhere-in-the-middle?
The scratch has likely damaged the head on that side... so it is likely junk now. So sad...

About the FD belt. YES, I AM CERTAIN the belt will work... but take a look thru ebay... there may be better bargains. That was just the 1st one I came to! Altho, with their advancing age, I was surprised to find them.... which is why I bought a few when I did!

It is possible to use a Dynamic Drive Overlay (software BIOS 'adjustment') and a larger drive... 1 gig or less... which is what Ive done with my Tandys...
But that is another chapter.
:D

 

[Conmega]

In the middle of the disk sadly...
It was a very thin light scratch...
The video is finished uploading...
I'll buy the belt now.

 

[leeb]

Okay... I have seen the video.

(NIIIIICE closeups on the drive BTW!)

It looks like the onboard controller may be at fault... usually on power-up it will seek areas of the drive toward the outer edge, drop back to center, then sit out at track 0...

Got a pic with the scratch in it? If it is in the middle and it isn't bad enuf to trash the head, it MIGHT be possible to salvage some data... but I don't have a 2061 drive... only a 2064.

 

[Conmega]

I'll take one now.

 

[Conmega]

There you go...
Opening it... It was actually VERY hard to find... Even with my great eyesight... Its right next to the reflection of the light...
Some of the natural scratches from the head reading actually looked worse then this little one...

The drive is a CP2064!!!
The one on ebay looked close... and like it would work in place of mine IF I need to replace mine