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Track 0 bad and other HDD errors with old XT drives

S

STorrence

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Joined
Dec 17, 2009
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So as part of the haul I made a little while I back I got several HDDs. None of them worked right off the bat, but thanks to Lorne I now have a copy of the 2.20 Advanced Diagnostics disk and was able to attempt to LLF all of them. Here are my results:

a) Drive: IMI 5012H (??mb)
Would not power up at all (no spin up or lights)

b) Drives: MiniScribe 6053-II (??mb) and Lapine LT 2000 (20mb)
Powered on and spun up but gave a 1701 error

c) Drives: Three WD-25 (20mb)
Original Problem: [LLF'd and partitioned just fine, but when attempting to
format in DOS they came back with a "Track 0 bad" error after about an hour
of activity]
Now: Two of these work perfectly after using the correct DIP switch settings. One still exhibits this error immediately upon attempting to format.

d) Drive: ST-412 (10mb)
Original Problem: [LLF'd and partitioned, then right as I attempted to format in DOS it
came back with a "seek error"]
Now: Works perfectly! Formatted and running DOS like a boss.

e) Drive: Maxtor XT-1140 (140mb)
Loud internal mechanism, LLF's fine, but does not DOS format

This is all running on a stock XT with the Xebec controller. Lorne has already said that these drives are probably toast, except maybe the last one.

Any suggestions? Or am I SOL? I'm willing to open these up if that's what it takes to get them going. :|
 
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Do you have the correct controllers for the drives? If the controller doesn't allow you to specify CHS for the drive, they may only support a few types (many of the 8-bit controllers I have support 21 and 42 MB drives only).
 
I really have no idea whether I have the correct controllers or not. There were three different controller types that I've found, but I mostly have the stock Xebec boards. The drives were all in a box together, as were the controller boards, so I have no idea what goes with what.

(What does CHS mean?)
 
Cylinder x Heads x Sectors = Total Drive Capacity.

As for the drives, well, there could be a number of things wrong with all of them, but, then again, the controllers could be bad.

That's why I have standard test jigs where I know everything works and the only variable is the piece under test.
 
Are the drives Seagate ST-412 ? These particular drives can be damaged during shipment if the heads are not parked.
Parking the heads just means moving the heads to the END of the drive far away from Track 0 to prevent damage
to that critical track. Thats all the head park program does. If Track 0 is bad the drive is supposedly unusable. It may be
possible to 'fix' the drive. I have an ST-412 that came in an XT which had the Track 0 bad error and I was able to fix
this by shifting the Track 0 position slightly. The above post has a link to discussions about how to do this.
 
Here's a link to an old thread about fixing the ST-412

http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?3391-Seagate-ST-412-issue.

My post about fixing the ST-412 is on Page 6 of that thread. Here's a link to a picture of the
stepper arm with the attached piece of thin aluminum to offset Track 0 . Basically what this
does is to fool the drive into thinking Track 0 is a bit further into the disk surface , probably about
where Track 1 or 2 was before. The drive has been working fine (with limited usage) for over
three years with this fix. cool stuff !

http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=125&d=1158024305

BTW, ST-412 drives are quite rare these days, so don't trash those drives just yet
 
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One of the "Track 0 bad" drives is an ST-412, yes. I think I might attempt the metal strip fix for moving Track 0 on that one. The others are a mix of WD, Seagate, and one Maxtor. I'll post the full list of drive model numbers later this evening if I get some time.
 
A very thin piece of aluminum flashing or even the aluminum piece
from a dead 1.44 diskette would work. I attached it with super glue....
 
Another thing I realized is that the Xebec controller is probably one with the DIP switches that supports 20MB drives, so I might need to also change the DIP switch positions to test the 10MB ST-412.
 
Okay, original post updated with the specific drives and their problem(s). So apparently the ST-412 has a "seek error". Is this something fixable?
 
Woohoo! The ST-412 is apparently A OK. I had the DIP switches on the Xebec board set wrong. Set them correctly, LLF-ed the drive, and then formatted in DOS with no errors. The parking program "shipdisk.com" on the 2.23 Diagnostics disk works to park the head.

I am now attempting to re-do the WD25's. We'll see how this goes...
 
When using these old stepper-motor hard drives, remember to always let the drive warm up for at least 30 minutes before you format it (either low-level or DOS format). That's because all hard drive platters expand as they get warm, and the stepper motor head acutator used by these old drives have no way to compensate for this expansion. So if you format the drive when it's stone-cold and then try to use it an hour later when it's fully warmed up, you may run into read/write errors, because the tracks that the formatting laid down now aren't lining up with where the head is positioned.

In fact, the same is true of any use that involves writing large amounts of data to the drive. So, when using these old hard drives, I always give them plenty of time to warm up before I sit down to use the computer. After all, old computers are already slow enough that if you can't afford another 30 minutes to wait, then you should just stick to using faster computers in the first place. :)
 
It's also a good idea to format them in the orientation that they are going to be used. If it is to be used lying flat, don't format it sitting on edge.
 
Ah, I forgot about that. Crap! And I was all done putting DOS on them and everything. :p

After testing everything, 2 of the 3 WD25's work perfectly. They LLF-ed and formatted and booted without issue. 1 WD25 still has the Track 0 error. I popped in my other controller and Lapine HDD (which is apparently two 10mb disks inside one 3.5" enclosure) LLF's fine, but during DOS formatting it says "usable for system disk" or something to that effect. The Maxtor LLF's, but gives a Track 0 error when I try to DOS format it. The MiniScribe spins up but gives 1701 even on the other controller. And the IMI still doesn't spin up at all.

So basically I've 3 fully functional drives and 1 partially functional drive. Anyone know if I need a special controller to fully support drives of at least 140mb?
 
STorrence said:
So basically I've 3 fully functional drives and 1 partially functional drive. Anyone know if I need a special controller to fully support drives of at least 140mb?
Click to expand...

No, but you may need a controller BIOS that supports it. Alternatively, an early version of SpeedStor or another DDO may do the trick.
 
Here's a photo of the non-Xebec autoconfigure controller I have. Any idea what model/manufacturer this is?

4386879478_5a013e3a30_o.jpg
 
STorrence said:
Here's a photo of the non-Xebec autoconfigure controller I have. Any idea what model/manufacturer this is?
Click to expand...
It looks like the first variation of the board that Xebec made for the IBM 5160.
If that 24 pin chip in the top-left corner of the photo has the number 5000059 stamped on it, then that's the card you have.
If so, it is not "auto-configure" - it only supports IBM type 1 drives (cylinders = 306, heads = 4, WPC = none, SPT = 17)(e.g. ST-412).
 
STorrence said:
c) Drives: Three WD-25 (20mb)
LLF'd and partitioned just fine, but when attempting to
format in DOS they came back with a "Track 0 bad" error after about an hour of activity
Click to expand...
Three WD25 all with the same error!
Do you know that the WD25, although a 20MB drive, is an IBM type 13 drive (not a type 2 drive)?

If you have the Xebec-made-for-IBM card that has a DIP switch block, you would have switches 1 and 2 both in the OFF position:

Switches 1 & 2 configure drive 0 (C:)
Switches 3 & 4 configure drive 1 (D:)

0 0 = Type 13 (e.g. WD25)
0 1 = Type 2 (e.g. ST-225)
1 0 = Type 16
1 1 = Type 1 (e.g. ST-412)
 
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