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VCF Straight 8 repair

djg

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2008
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604
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MD
VCF straight 8 was intermittently acting up again. Tried the board wiggle test and seemed to be sensitive around the R211 MA, MB, PC registers. There are 12 of those cards. Couldn't localize to one card. Tried my contact resistance checking card. I made this when originally restoring the machine to try to deal with intermittent connections on the cards. It shows current, minimum and maximum contact resistance when ssh'd into from my laptop. Did show some of the contacts which varied by slot had high resistance. Good contacts you could wiggle the board in slot and resistance stayed below an ohm. Bad contacts showed maximum resistance it could display of 8 ohms. Either when just inserted or when wiggled. Was able to get resistance down with various cleaning methods but some still changed with wiggling card. Tried to check contact force by probing contacts by hand. Inconclusive. Will need to bring a gauge to check contact force and investigate further if I can reproduce on spare backplane here.
p1.jpg

And got the expected result after going through all the effort of no change in symptoms. Tried brushing hand over wirewrap pins on those cards and it triggered incorrect operation. Sometimes one of the memory address register bits didn't seem to load with examine switch. Inspecting that pin I could see a bad solder joint where they had used a bus strip to connect pins across all the R211 cards. See pin where the red clip is on. That is pin PC16-M which is PC->MA (Transfer program counter to memory address register). You set the PC to address you want to read with load address then examine switch transfer it to MA register to read memory and increments PC.
badsolder.jpg

Didn't think I could resolder without damage to wires to added a purple wirewrap to the next pin. Could then wiggle cards and pins without crashing the moving light demo.

Next was working on the A/D converter. It looked like the machine originally didn't have that option installed. Likely the The R.E.S.I.S.T.O.R.S. got the cards and installed them but it wasn't in a working state. The manual said you just had to install the cards but it looked like you had to also remove some wires to enable it. VCF management agreed that it was ok to remove the wires to enable the A/D converter.

I started troubleshooting the converter. First issue was the R401 card in PE13 wasn't generating the conversion clock. I replaced a bad diode on the card to fix. Most of the logic in the PDP-8 is done with discrete diodes.

Next issue was the memory buffer register wasn't shifting. The shift signal from the A/D converter was grounded to prevent noise pickup when the A/D wasn't installed. They used red to mark the wires that needed to be removed to install options. Not sure what orange and green wires signify. I removed the wire from MB SHIFT (pin DU). Also removed ground from AC R210 A-D CONV (pin BP). In the picture you see other red wires. Will see if they are for A/D or other peripheral not installed.

p3.jpg acwire.jpg

Next problem was the converter was saying it was done after second clock pulse. The A/D is Successive-approximation. You can select between 6 and 12 bit of resolution at 166k to 18k conversions per second by connecting pin PE12-J to the correct memory buffer bit (MB) and adjusting the R401 clock frequency. The more bits the slower the clock needs to be for the signals to settle to the 1/2 LSB resolution. The computer is using the MB as a shift register shifting a one across with each clock. The connection was supposed to be to the active high signal but it was connected to the active low signal. I unwrapped the wire and jumpered it to the correct pin. The A/D converter never finished conversion since the one wasn't being shifted in. Found that the A/D converter depends on a R123 card that is listed as part of the 681 data line interface option. The module location chart is missing marking that card as part of the A/D also. The manual referred to the R123 at PC5 but its really in PE5. I didn't have a R123 with me so will need to wait till next visit to finish. I have some push on pins that I'll put on the wire that selects the number of bits so it can be easily changes in the future. The not installed 681 option allows the PDP8 to interface to a 685 serial line multiplexor to talk to up to 128 teletypes. This machines has the normal single teletype interface installed.

Machine also has this cap on PE12 delay card. Its not documented in the manual. Manual says delay should be 1/2 microsecond. With cap I think it was 40 microseconds. It looks like a later addition. The red sleeving around the pin looks like they put that in to try to prevent melting nearby wires when it was soldered on. Suspect I'm going to need to remove it.
cap.jpg

Still need to figure out what we want to connect to A/D to demo. The computer has 4k 12 bit words of non volatile core memory and no mass storage. All output needs to be teletype or accumulator lights.

I put my Debounce card in the machine to make the front panel work better. Closed the machine up and checked the demos we leave in core. The text punch wasn't working properly. Tried to reload from paper tape and that made it worse. Code was getting loaded to the wrong location. Looked like carry wasn't working between some of the R211 cards. Wiggled the R211's and problem cleared up so we still have an intermittent connection which will need to wait for next time. Reloaded the demos and verified they all worked then headed home. Looking closer at the badsolder picture some other solder joints look suspect. Will test better next time. I had one bad solder joint in my 8/I on power bus strip like this. Hopefully won't start getting a lot of this problem.
 
Surprise it needed more repairs.

It would load the first instruction to execute when you hit the start key but didn't load the next instruction after updating the program counter. Kept reexecuting the first instruction.

TLDR: Found some signals that weren't quite right but fixing them didn't help. Found actual bad diode that was causing the failure but then diagnostics found another fault. Whike working on that memory stopped working when machine on for a while. Ran out of time to determine why so still not usable.


Started browsing signals. PDP-8 signals are referred to as 0V and -3V. They actually are one diode drop below -3V. The F(1) signals which indicates the machine is in the fetch state was only going to about -1.8V. Normally this is caused by a leaky diode on logic being driven by the signal. Went through the schematics trying to find everywhere the signal went. Pulled 12 boards and tested diodes. Found and replaced one with high forward voltage but none measured low forward voltage indicating they are leaky. Reverse test would be better but components on the boards make some diodes read as leaky and hard to be sure you have gotten good connection through the surface oxides. Good diode and poor connection read the same on the meter.

F(1) drives the light on the front panel through a drive transistor. Found that if I put a piece of tape on the edge connector to open that connection the signal level returned to proper. The manual doesn't have schematic for the front panel so need to figure that out. Much time spent and it didn't fix the problem. Will need to make measurements on my machine so I can compare with VCF and determine real cause of signal level issue. Suspect its not really the front panel but removing that load allowed signal to go to proper level.

Looking at more signals found PA30 J output F set which sets the fetch flip flop also wasn't going as low as it should. I put a replacement S111 in and that fixed it. No change to symptoms. Later after I fixed the real problem I was going to swap the card back and see if it caused problems. I couldn't find a S111 card around. Wondered if my notes were a hallucination. Did find a R111 around but thought I had pulled a S111. The difference between the cards is the pull down resistors to -15V are changed from 7.5K on R111 to 3K on S111. This improves the fall time on the signal and gives more low drive (4mA vs 1.6 mA). The increased drive may be hiding a leaky diode. Don't have specifications for D-664 diode to know expected leakage. Typical small signals diodes are less than a microamp. I checked old pictures of the machine and PA30 had a R111. The early manual had R111 shown in the schematic but the card layout chart showed S111. The later manual had S111 in both locations.

Next found spec cycle signal was at -1.4V. Checked cards signal goes to and found PA32 had a diode where the forward voltage measured .1V. Replaced diode and signal now had proper level and it started fetching instructions properly.

Ran maindec-801-1-pm and it halted at 1062. This test was checking the proper return address got stored on an interrupt. Found the previous tests return address was at address 0. Single cycle stepping showed that it wrote the return address to location 4 instead of 0. The memory address register bit 9 didn't clear when it was supposed to. Pulled the R211 card and checked the diodes and found one with 1V forward drop and replaced it. Didn't fix it.

At this point memory stopped working. All reads returned 0. Found if I turned the machine off for a while memory would operates for a while. Test still failed. Swapping in a spare R211 fixed the problem. The memory signals seemed to be operating normally when reads weren't working. The sense amplifier E pin didn't show a pulse. All memory locations and all bits don't work. All power supply voltages seemed reasonable and didn't change significantly between working and not working. Wasn't able to determine what the problem was before time to pack up.

Didn't think to take pictures this time.
 
We plan to add the A-D converter to the RICM's Straight 8 sometime. Is there a list of the wires that we need to remove to enable that option?
 
We plan to add the A-D converter to the RICM's Straight 8 sometime. Is there a list of the wires that we need to remove to enable that option?
I haven't found one. Hopefully I'll get the machine working again and can get back to the A/D and find the rest of the wires to remove.
 
I find this diagnostic thread really interesting.

I did some work a while ago on the Straight-8.

I used a set of Straight-8 schematics and entered the module interconnections and symbolic names (including the 'type' of signal) into a spreadsheet.

I then wrote some VB to process the spreadsheet and generate a netlist from it.

It was amazing how many errors it spotted...

Individual gates on cards that were used in multiple places, symbolic name issues, signals of different 'types' connected to a different type, modules on the schematic that are defined as one type in a slot in one place and a different card type in a different place for the same slot etc.

I sorted some of the discrepancies out as typographical errors and corrected these, but still had some left.

I suspect these are accidental errors with the schematics - or deliberate ones...

Dave
 
I used a set of Straight-8 schematics and entered the module interconnections and symbolic names (including the 'type' of signal) into a spreadsheet.

I then wrote some VB to process the spreadsheet and generate a netlist from it.


Dave

Any chance you still have the spreadsheet and netlist?
 
Funnily enough, I have just gone and hunted it out whilst I was doing something else...

I will have a look in more detail tomorrow and send it out.

Dave
 
The schematics I used were from Bitsavers (PDP-8_Processor_Schematics_Jun70.pdf).

I have the build down to 367 errors...

I have coded up the Flip-Chips modules in SPICE, so what I am short of now is all of the yellow wire-wrap wiring on the backplane. You can guess where I am going with this can't you...

I will upload my spreadsheet and the SPICE output to my Google Drive when I can; and post a link for you.

The last issue I was working through was PD2 pin S.

This is defined as "KCC IOT 032 WT" on schematic "AC CONTROL" but as "MEM EXT BD" on the connector assignment for PD2 pin S (as used on schematic "INPUT-OUTPUT CONTROL" - but with no symbolic name defied).

The nomenclature for WT and BD comes from the "White Triangle" and "Black Diamond" symbols used to indicate the 'type' of signal.

I have worked out a way of configuring external resistors and capacitors (as added to the backplane). I just haven't been bothered at the moment to do it until I have a more stable (and less error reporting) set of schematics.

I am also preferring for the system to tell me when a Flip-Chip has an unused pin, so I can go and check it for myself. I can then add it to a list of pins that are not connected (NC), and the error should go away.

If you have a consistent (ish) set of schematics and a list of modules in your machine, I would be happy to update my spreadsheet from your machine. That should give me the best fighting chance of having something that works - and (you never know) it may help you in the future debug faults on the machine?

I have entered the schematics (in a symbolic form), one worksheet per schematic. So, for example, a simple example will looks like:

= KCC IOT 032 WT
PA19 D
PD2 S
*

This states that a symbol (called "KCC IOT 032 WT") is wired to module PA19 pin D and PA2 pin S. The * indicates the end of this interconnection list.

Elsewhere, (on a different schematic) the symbol may be re-used.

The spreadsheet ties all symbolic references together and produces a SPICE module list (or will do when there are no errors).

This is where my spreadsheet has identified PD2 S being used in multiple places - and this is clearly an error on the schematics when I have looked.

There are a few 'me' errors somewhere. For example, symbols such as "P?4 : P", "PB25 : I", and "PF1 : P?". I assume some of these are where I can't read the text from the schematic. There may be a typo for pin I. Perhaps it should be pin J?

I have just been working through a few more errors whilst I have been writing this post, and I have been resolving a few more issues... The P?4 is a bit unreadable on the schematic. I found it on the connection diagram for PF4 - and it matches with the symbolic name "WC OVERFLOW BT".

The spreadsheet contains a VB subroutine called GENSPICE. Run this and it generates a file in H:\TEMP\PDP8SPICE.TXT. I have copied this into a worksheet called OUTPUT for reference (although this is a manual copy of the file into the spreadsheet - so it does not update when you run the VB code).

I will see what happens if I ZIP up the spreadsheet - see if it is small enough to upload onto VCFED.

Dave
 
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Thanks very much for the spreadsheet. The RICM Straight-8 was made in 1965. It looks like your spreadsheet was made from the later "A" revision of the schematic, but it will still be very helpful.

There is another thread in this forum about making a backplane wiring tracer. It would be interesting to compare the output of the backplane tracer with the schematic to see how many differences there are.
 
I have now reduced the errors down to 364...

One is still related to the duplicated PD2 pin S.

The remaining ones are unused Flip-Chip pins. These may be errors in my spreadsheet, real unused pins on the Flip-Chip within this design, or wired to discrete components hanging off the backplane...

I will have a look at some of these at the weekend.

On my schematics I have already ringed all of the 'bodge components' with pink highlighter - so these should be relatively simple to track down and rectify.

Dave
 
Just checking the 'unconnected pins' on the R210 modules and I have tripped over the "A-D CONV", "COMPARATOR" and "AD START" signals!

Dave
 
Thanks Vince. That clears that one up...

I have just printed out all of the connector pinout sheets from the schematics, so I shall go through what I have in my spreadsheet and start ticking them off the paper.

Dave
 
The memory schematics have KCC_IOT_32 over on PF1/MF36 pin U (sheet TELEPRINTER).
Verified that connection on my straight 8.

This is going to be quite handy for checking signals with funny levels. Found I missed a couple cards when I was checking. Printed them out for next time.
 
Last work on straight 8.

Worked on the machine again on the 9th. About the same outcome.

The memory stopping working issue from previous repair attempt didn't reproduce the two days I was there.
I had missed last time that the W026 card that pass the signals to the front panel have diodes on them. One of them was bad causing the loading on F(1). Signal fine after replacing diode. Checked other W026 cards and replaced another suspicious diode.

Next tried to load diagnostics but it wouldn't receive characters from teletype interface. IN ACTIVE wasn't getting set. Found diode with high forward reading of about .95 volts on R202 in ME20. Replacing it fixed the problem.

I put the R111 back PA30 and signal I was having issues with incorrect levels still looked fine this time. Put S111 back in since needed R111 for ADC.

Ran all the diagnostics and demos and the machine seemed to be fully functional.

I put in R111 in PC5 and R123 in PE5 to allow A/D converter to work. On page 10-109 (349) of f-87a maintenance manual is the 681 data line interface. In the upper right the A/D start goes through the R123 and uses the clamped load in the R111 to generate the memory buffer shift enable signal.
After installing the cards the LSB bit inverted when depositing to memory. Traced the problem to COUNT MB ENBL was being generated. On the same page you can see that the R111 generates that signal (wired orded with other logic generating it). The T1S signal wasn't being driven since the rest of the 681 data line interface wasn't installed. I grounded T1S to fix the problem. The purple wire is the fix.
jumper.jpg

I also reconnected the BNC jack to the correct pin. It was originally soldered to the pin. I used some slide on connectors to it and the signal that selects the number of bits for the A/D converter. Don't like soldering to the pins and it allows the number of bits for the A/D converter to be easily changed if desired. The big black coax is the A/D input. Originally only the signal was connected. The ground is through the BNC mounted in the metal fan tray. The wire going to the upper right corner is the signal to select the number of A/D bits. Don't seem to have a picture of the end of it.

The manual Table 5-3 on page 5-8 (154) is wrong. It shows the wire for bit select being connected to pin F of the memory buffer registers which is the active low signal. It needs to be connected to the D pin which is the active high signal. I connected it to PC18CD which enables 12 bit conversion.
wiring.jpg

I don't think that big capacitor should be installed. The manual pg. 10-107 (347) says PE14 should be .5 us delay. With cap there you can only adjust the delay to 5 us which limited the clock rate to 5.6 us. Should be 4.6 us for 12 bits and lower with less bits. As you increase the number of bits/precision the clock needs to be slowed down to allow the D/A more time to settle. The A/D is successive approximation which uses a D/A to compare to the input voltage.


Looked like A/D was now working then bit 5 got stuck on during conversion. Found .25V forward drop diode on R210 PA/PB 12. Replacing it fixed the bit.

I didn't try to adjust the various pots that fix accuracy and linearity.

Here is the A/D working. Yellow is start conversion pulse. Blue is D/A output. Magenta is the input signal. First it resets the register to 0. It then tries 1/2 full scale (-10V) which is less so then tries next bit set to generate 3/4 which is too large so clears that bit and sets the next for 5/8 full scale etc.
RigolDS22.png

Now late for leaving but all I need to do is reload the demo programs. Teletype interface wouldn't work. Poked a little but didn't have time to figure it out.

Looking now with more time likely cause of the problem is R002 in PD4 not being installed that causes TT INST to be generated without checking the memory buffer bits. Page 10-109 (349). Need to ground T of PC5 also. If that's correct pulling the R111 and R123 should fix it for now and disable the A/D. Annoying that I didn't think of that before I left.

Dead diodes. I cut one lead off to make them easier to remove.
diodes.jpg
 
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