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Wanted: Tandy 1000 Monitor

Raven

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I have a Tandy 1000 RL/HD. To go with it, I have a Tandy keyboard, a Tandy mouse, Tandy floppy disk cases, Tandy floppy disks, and A TANDY POWER STRIP. What I don't have, however, is a Tandy monitor. This forces me to use my Tandy 1000 RL/HD's only 8-bit ISA slot for a VGA card, hogging both my Tandy's only ISA slot, and one of my few 8-bit VGA cards for no good reason.

I really need an authentic Tandy monitor for this machine. I can't afford to buy it immediately, but in a few weeks I can, and I figured that if I put the request out sooner I'd have a response by then.

Thanks!

Oh and btw, if you happen to know what monitor would have been shipping with Tandy 1000 products, the RL/HD if it makes a difference, let me know please.
 

Fallo

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Oh and btw, if you happen to know what monitor would have been shipping with Tandy 1000 products, the RL/HD if it makes a difference, let me know please.

The RL was the last machine to have the Tandy video. It would have used either the CM-5 or CM-11 monitor. The former was sold in larger numbers due to it's lower price, but it had approximately the dot pitch of a television (ie. fuzzy). The CM-11 was the better model, and comparable to the IBM 5153.

I've got a CM-11 with my IBM 5150, but mostly because I lost an Ebay auction for a 5153. Doesn't quite match with the computer, so I can understand why you want an authentic Tandy 1000 setup (that wouldn't exactly look right with a 5153, would it?).

Rather matter-of-factually, the DOM on my CM-11 is September 1990, which means that it would have been contemporary with the RL, and very late for a CGA monitor (the 5153 by comparison was discontinued in 1987). Back in the day, Tandy took a look of heat from computer magazines for continuing to sell machines with CGA and DD floppies after everyone else had VGA and HD floppies.
 

Lord Moz

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I know you said you can't afford it right now, and I figure you would probably prefer to get it here than eBay, but I thought I'd post that a CM-11 just showed up there. It doesn't have the little cover for the controls on the bottom front unfortunately.

The seller seems to have many of the more sanely priced older PC systems I've seen on eBay. 486s around 50-70s instead of 150-200. And he's put it as a Buy-it-Now or Make Offer listing for 30 days.

If you are interested, send him a message and make an offer, see if he can hold it for you.

I don't have any relationship with him, but judging by his listings and feedback, he seems pretty decent.

Good luck on your quest.

edit: He also has an Epson monochrome monitor and IBM 5151 greenscreen listed, which the RL will also drive. My dad originally ran his RL with a Tandy greenscreen before we could afford the CM-11. Not as good for games, but it certainly adds to that retro feel :D
(in case you didn't know, you can switch between TGA and Hercules compatible graphics by pressing Ctl-Alt-Shift-V.)
 
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Raven

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No I had no idea that the Tandy graphics controllers were capable of Hercules - that's an interesting prospect.

I actually have monochrome monitors, one of which is very new and very high quality (2002 or so), but still looks relatively vintage in style.

If I were to boot up the Tandy with a monochrome monitor attached, wouldn't it try to send out CGA and possibly hurt the monochrome monitor? I grew up when VGA had just finished taking over, so I admit I'm rather noobish with it's precursor video modes.

Someone PM'd me an offer to sell me a CM-5 for $20 at the end of January, and I plan to do that. How bad is a CM-5 as opposed to the CM-11? Will it be comparable to my Commodore 1701 monitor at least, or are we talking "built-in antialiasing" sort of fuzzy?

I was able to find a good picture of a CM-11 that's on, so if I can find a CM-5 one we'll be in business for comparison..
(http://www.oldskool.org/guides/tvdog/images/RL_RunningPalmzipCtmouseLarge.jpg)

I'm willing to bet that being used to my C64, the CM-5 will look sharp - as well, I can't use the RL/HD to do much more than pure DOS (and the IMO worthless Deskmate software, which I keep on the machine just for authenticity - it still has it's original contents + my stuff) and DOS games, so will it really make a difference?

Edit: I looked up the pinouts for CGA and MDA, and found that 345 are the color pins, and they are totally unused in MDA, so it shouldn't be able to to hurt the monitor. It might even work displaying CGA w/o color without that key combo. Pin 7 is monochrome data of some kind, so I suppose that key combo disables pins 3, 4, and 5, and then enables 7. Anywho, I'm convinced that it can't hurt my monochrome monitor, so I'm gonna give this a go.
 
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Lord Moz

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Tandy listed the maximum resolution for the CM-5 as 320x225 and a .62 dot pitch. The CM-11 was listed as capable of 640x225 and having a .42dp. Although technically the CM-5 can display 640x225, I suppose Tandy did not admit it due to its poor performance in that mode? I couldn't tell ya on that one.

I have never seen a CM-5 running, so everything I have heard about them is second hand, but it has been uniformly unflattering.

As far as connecting the monochrome monitor, I would be extremely surprised if your 2002 vintage monitor was a TTL level hercules compatible display. I suppose it is possible, but I would think it is a lot more likely to be a monochrome VGA display. Does it have 9, or 15 pins on its cable?

Connecting a hercules/mda display to CGA or vice versa shouldn't cause any problems if not done for more than a few seconds I would hope. It obviously won't display an image in the wrong mode, and it's very likely the display will make some very high pitched screams/tones, and that should be your clue. I'm not saying it's a good idea, but I've done it a few times on my systems and never broken anything. The voltages are both TTL level, both digital, the only real difference is the sync signals.

The Tandy monochrome monitor would be a VM series, with the VM-5 being the last model. Very small and lightweight... it's a very nice monitor, much more attractive than an IBM 5151 ;)

You can look at the specs of Tandy monitors here: http://support.radioshack.com/support_accessories/2511.htm

Hope that helps.

edit: Forgot to mention that a Commodore 1084 will display CGA as well, and some come with a DB9 connector, but others use a DIN. The monitor has a switch to set it between digital and analog modes. The Commodore 128 uses CGA compatible signals for its 80 column mode. This means a CGA display will work with a C128 as well, but the 1084 is a better fit because it can also do the separate Luma/Chroma needed for the 40 column mode, as the monitor has another switch for that as well.
__
Trevor
 
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Raven

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It worked, by the way... I just had to tweak the vhold and it was happy. I tried to run Castlevania, and it didn't work, played music but just stayed on the DOS prompt and stopped working. Either way it gives me text output just fine. Castlevania supposedly supports Hercules..

It has 9-pins btw, and was partnered with a Realtek MDA adapter that I could find no information on, in an i486 that was set up in a quad-modem voice answering system at the office I work in for years.

I just looked on the back of the monitor, apparently it dates to 1998, I had estimated 2002 because the base of the monitor has an inspection check for 2003.
 

hargle

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I have a CM-5, oddly enough, it also is missing the little cover over the controls, exactly like the one on ebay. I'd be happy to post pics of it, tell me something you'd like to see on it and I'll snap some pictures.

I was going to sell mine off too, trying to make room for my eventual acquisition of a monochrome monitor. Now that I see all those auctions from the guy in south dakota, I'm contemplating a road trip/weekend and picking a few things up from him...
 

Fallo

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Tandy listed the maximum resolution for the CM-5 as 320x225 and a .62 dot pitch. The CM-11 was listed as capable of 640x225 and having a .42dp. Although technically the CM-5 can display 640x225, I suppose Tandy did not admit it due to its poor performance in that mode? I couldn't tell ya on that one.

Even the CM-11 doesn't quite separate pixels cleanly in 640x200 mode. I also found out that the IBM 5153 has a dot pitch of .38, meaning that it's a bit sharper.

It worked, by the way... I just had to tweak the vhold and it was happy. I tried to run Castlevania, and it didn't work, played music but just stayed on the DOS prompt and stopped working. Either way it gives me text output just fine. Castlevania supposedly supports Hercules.

Did you hear the Tandy 3-voice music or PC speaker? If it's the former, Castlevania may be autodetecting the computer and refuse to run in anything but Tandy mode.

I just looked on the back of the monitor, apparently it dates to 1998, I had estimated 2002 because the base of the monitor has an inspection check for 2003.

A quick Google search reveals that there are still monochrome monitors available in both TTL and VGA types. The ones I found all appear to come from some outfit called Miracle Business Solutions.
 

Raven

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Did you hear the Tandy 3-voice music or PC speaker? If it's the former, Castlevania may be autodetecting the computer and refuse to run in anything but Tandy mode.

Um.. don't both come from the speaker built into the machine? When I ran it on VGA it played through the speaker, and when I tried to run it in Hercules it played through the speaker... ?
 

Lord Moz

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I think he means what kind of music. Did it sound good, or like beeps? ;)
__
Trevor
 

Lord Moz

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I have a CM-5, oddly enough, it also is missing the little cover over the controls, exactly like the one on ebay. I'd be happy to post pics of it, tell me something you'd like to see on it and I'll snap some pictures.

I was going to sell mine off too, trying to make room for my eventual acquisition of a monochrome monitor. Now that I see all those auctions from the guy in south dakota, I'm contemplating a road trip/weekend and picking a few things up from him...

Looking to buy some of his inflatable Corona bottles? :p
__
Trevor
 

Raven

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I think he means what kind of music. Did it sound good, or like beeps? ;)
__
Trevor

I am not familiar with Tandy sound, as this is my first Tandy PC and I've never had it running in a Tandy mode.. It sounds like beeps, but I wouldn't know if they were three-voice beeps or not..
 

Lord Moz

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I am not familiar with Tandy sound, as this is my first Tandy PC and I've never had it running in a Tandy mode.. It sounds like beeps, but I wouldn't know if they were three-voice beeps or not..

I'm not familiar with Maniac Mansion (I'm sorry!) but Mr. Cloudshatze has this Youtube video of it running on his RLX, so I assume it's Tandy sound in the video. Tandy sound is general close in quality to the old 8 bit SoundBlasters, although the earliest 1000s did not do PCM.

I can't seem to find a video of it playing in PC speaker mode for comparison, but PC speaker audio is frequently very unpleasant to listen to, and I personally often turn sound off in games when the PC speaker is my only option.

__
Trevor
 

Raven

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Hard to say, the game I had on mine might just not support Tandy sound.. It certainly didn't sound as complex as that one though.

I rather like PC speaker sound... adds an arcade feel. It's not too good in non-arcade games, but for an arcade game it feels right - I have lots of PC Speaker music go on my Sr. Partner with it's all-green CGA screen and old games... great box.

Edit: I think I can conclusively say that I was hearing PC speaker music, because this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahu5pq851Eo) video of Castlevania running on DOS has much more complex and nice music and sounds than I was hearing.

Edit: This is what mine sounded like on my Tandy 1000 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqPJfLO9XTE&feat)
 
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Fallo

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Edit: I think I can conclusively say that I was hearing PC speaker music, because this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahu5pq851Eo) video of Castlevania running on DOS has much more complex and nice music and sounds than I was hearing.

That video was using the Adlib sound.

Edit: This is what mine sounded like on my Tandy 1000 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqPJfLO9XTE&feat)

Yeah, you were hearing the PC speaker music all right. I couldn't find a video of Castlevania in Tandy mode, but here's Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, by the same company. The Tandy music should sound something like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OyiKFw0mkU

The PC speaker music in Castlevania and TMNT is awful, BTW. It always gets cut out by sound effects, so it's extremely choppy. Be glad that you have a Tandy to play it on, assuming you can get the music to work.
 

Chromedome45

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I tried to run castlevania and keep getting a csongs.psn error and then it bombs out. This is happening on my 1000tx. May not seem related to the post but Raven said he wanted to see a picture of it running on a Tandy CM-5 which is what I am using since my Epson CGA blew up! :confused: which means i would like to obtain a good CGA/EGA monitor too. Any donators?
 

Raven

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I tried to run castlevania and keep getting a csongs.psn error and then it bombs out. This is happening on my 1000tx. May not seem related to the post but Raven said he wanted to see a picture of it running on a Tandy CM-5 which is what I am using since my Epson CGA blew up! :confused: which means i would like to obtain a good CGA/EGA monitor too. Any donators?

Maybe the version I linked to doesn't have the Tandy sound and since your system IS trying to load it (unlike mine) it's complaining.
 

geoffm3

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There's a ?M-3 locally I've been meaning to pick up to round out my 1000HX. It's a much smaller monitor than the CM-5. At first I thought it was a monochrome monitor (which would imply VM-3), but the CRT has an aperture grille which leads me to believe it's a color monitor instead. Anyone know what the specs of this one are?
 

Raven

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Google turned up nothing, even with leet syntax searches.. I did find references to a CM-4 model though.
 
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