What do you actually do with your vintage computers?

[KC9UDX]

No, but I still prefer a simple carburettor and ignition amplifier over anything overcomplicated with a computer.

I can get everything I need to get done, done, with a C64, and this "smartphone". In 198x, I got everything done with a C64, and it still does all those things. Except, I don't find much need to print with colour graphics these days.

I don't "need" to do websurfing anyway. A few years ago, I simply didn't. I severed ties with my ISP in 2011, and didn't bother getting a new one till.. well, I don't know exactly what year it was, but it was fairly recent.

I prefer to do everything I can with an older computer. It doesn't make sense to me to do text-only file editing on a xGHz CPU with xGb of RAM. So, if I don't have to buy one of those, I won't. Actually, people keep giving them to me and they're starting to pile up in the closet. Things are much more tolerable when the computer does what I tell it to do, instead of what Microsoft, or whoever, decides I want it to do.

I never considered myself a "vintage computer collector". I just never stopped using them. The only reason I went back to a C64 though was because my Amiga died, and I lost my internet connection anyway.

Oh, and that infernal buzzing, it's a song. I haven't heard it in a while, but I remember it. Actually it was several songs. Each connection speed had its own tune.

 

[KC9UDX]

I resent that remark. I get most of the housework done and still fix other user's problems. One day you'll get old. I won't pity you.

If you mean my remark, I should point out I was being sarcastic. I am not young. But I'm not ready to admit being "old" just yet. I don't yet feel (and probably never will) that I am someone to be as respected as an old person should.

 

[KC9UDX]

I shouldn't post so much consecutively, but here is a case for intentionally using a "vintage" computer.

I was given a modern MIDI interface a while ago. So, I set up a "modern" PC, and did everything necessary to make it work. It did not work. I bent over backwards trying to make it work. I finally gave up and did what I intended to 15 years ago: I set up a stock Amiga 3000 with a serial port MIDI interface. It works very well. The only thing I can't figure out how to do, but everyone else seems to be able to do, is convert a Standard MIDI File to Bars and Pipes' format.

 

[tipc]

The reality is in my experience fuel injection is simpler to deal with, in many cases, then a carburetor. The ECM pulses the injectors, which is just a solenoid. In some cases, multiport injection, ALL the injectors are pulsed at the same time. A very simple system, unfortunately not the most common. The fuel rail/regulator/injector combination is, again in my experience, far less hassle then an aging carburetor. If you take care of it, basically don't use crap fuel, it takes very good care of you and is low maintenance. I drove a car for 5 years and never put one drop of f.i. cleaner in it.

A mechanic taught me years ago about dealing w/points inside the distributor, something about sticking a matchbook cover somewhere. Oi vay, give me fuel injection!!

I would think that the majority of us, easily, if not all, would like to keep and use our old computers for a lot more then we do. If you don't need the internet, ok you're fine (but you're on the internet). And stating you need the smart phone to get on is like saying you need a modern computer. Smaller, not quite as powerful, but still very modern.

I like old cars, old computers. They just don't, or can't, do it all for me. It's not a put down.

 

[KC9UDX]

The reality is in my experience fuel injection is simpler to deal with, in many cases, then a carburetor.

Probably because you've had the same experience with garbage carburettors most people have. I've had experience with those, and lots and lots of fuel injection systems, good and garbage as well.

The ECM pulses the injectors, which is just a solenoid. In some cases, multiport injection, ALL the injectors are pulsed at the same time. A very simple system, unfortunately not the most common. The fuel rail/regulator/injector combination is, again in my experience, far less hassle then an aging carburetor. If you take care of it, basically don't use crap fuel, it takes very good care of you and is low maintenance. I drove a car for 5 years and never put one drop of f.i. cleaner in it.

A good carburettor has less moving parts than a typical fuel injection setup, this is something a lot of people argue with me about. I've got cars that I've driven more than a decade without touching the carburettor. I've got cars that I've driven more than a decade without touching the fuel injection. But, a poorly maintained carburettor runs poorly. A poorly maintained fuel injection system runs OK until it dies completely. It's much easier to limp home with a fouled carburettor, but it's much easier to never let it get to that point.

A mechanic taught me years ago about dealing w/points inside the distributor, something about sticking a matchbook cover somewhere. Oi vay, give me fuel injection!!

Points ignition and fuel injection are neither related nor not related. You can mix and match either. I don't run points ignition anymore, but sometimes I wonder why not. I've got a dead ignition in one car again, which is a recurring problem. I made the mistake of investing in all MSD parts, and the MSD distributor for my engine is a piece of junk. It's based on a Chevy distributor, because Chevy is the Windows of cars, people just can't keep away from it for some reason.

I would think that the majority of us, easily, if not all, would like to keep and use our old computers for a lot more then we do.

Then do it! (I'm trying to be encouraging, not critical) It's easier than most people think, and it's a lot of fun. I do all my financial work (which is a lot) on an Amiga 2000. I create all my other spreadsheets (also a lot) on a C64. I do a lot of text editing on my C64, and really nowhere else.

If you don't need the internet, ok you're fine (but you're on the internet).

I don't need it, I don't need to be here. Sometimes I think I'd get more done round the house if I weren't.

And stating you need the smart phone to get on is like saying you need a modern computer. Smaller, not quite as powerful, but still very modern.

I don't need it to get online. I use it mostly as a matter of principal: I like the fact that a lot of sites are streamlined for cell phone use. I don't like all the bloat on desktop browsers. I'd still be using IBrowse for most everything, but just recently everything is using encryption that my wife's A2000 isn't set up for.

I like old cars, old computers. They just don't, or can't, do it all for me. It's not a put down.

No, I understand. It's not for everyone. But all the new, bloated, feature "rich" stuff isn't for everyone either. I feel much more at home in my carburetted, four-wheel-drive car with the manual transmission than anything newer than about 2005. I fell much more at home with my C64 doing one thing and not having to wonder what it's doing in the background which is making it run as slow as I remember my old C64 running.

 

[tipc]

Some of the newer cars are crap, w/plastic manifolds. But try and tell me you can get the same efficiency w/a carburetor with a large engine like an LT1. I sincerely doubt it. Computers in cars are one of the best things to happen to them IMHO. It adds some complexity, but it's mostly transparent. You don't have to deal w/the computer unless you want. They're pretty darn reliable, weatherproofing helps with that. And if yours is radiation hardened you won't even have to worry about an emp attack.
I'll go repair bill for repair bill with ANY Ford/Chrysler, even foreign car, comparing them to the Chevys I've driven. The facts don't lie. The ones I've driven, since 1988, were phenomenally reliable and largely maintenance free. GM has a few issues, but you'd lucky to get 50k out of a Ford or Chrysler w/o something going wrong. Not my experience w/Chebbys. That's why I stick with them. A friend keeps buying fords, and they wind up trading them in well before 100k. But Chevy water pumps "always" crap out at exactly 55k. It's a conspiracy!!! Even if it were true, they picked the cheapest, easiest to replace part (much more often then not) to implement planned obsolescence.
No, using a Tandy 2000 for much more then tinkering ain't happening. No one really needs the internet, except for looking at the weather and whatnot. But you keep rambling on while you're on it. You can't get by with an old computer, most people. Just ain't happening. No one loves all the crap M$ tries to ram down everyone's throat. So go Linux. I'd love to keep an old unit and use only it, doing seasonal upgrades as necessary. But it ain't happening.

 

[KC9UDX]

When your Chevy has 370,000 miles with no engine, transmission, or transfer case work whatsoever, and still runs and drives like brand new after 25 years, you can compare it to one of my AMCs.

If you've never had issues with the computer in a car, you are a very, very lucky person, based on my personal, and professional opinion. Or, you never owned a 1989-2001 vehicle, especially a GM.

I'll keep Rambling, no worries there.

Sent from my Kyocera Hydro because it cost me $35 and the service is free.

P.S. it's certainly possible to get the same gas mileage with a carburettor. It's just not easy these days because no one bothers to make fuel efficient carburettor setups. I'd have to build my own, and I don't have time.

 

[tipc]

"When your Chevy has 370,000 miles with no engine, transmission, or transfer case work whatsoever, and still runs and drives like brand new after 25 years, you can compare it to one of my AMCs"

That's not typical for any car. GMs can get 300+. I ran a car I bought brand new for 205k, which still ran extremely well (until it didn't, didn't bother to persue it after that, probably a fuel pump or who knows). And 205k with a bad crank shaft sensor, heater core, and maybe 1 other thing in it's lifetime is extremely good service. I took care of it, although I let the oil go for 15k twice, ran the oil low twice (heard engine ticking), and it still ran, won't say like brand new, but extremely well until the end. The car payed for itself.
Others have ran their GMs for 300k+ miles. Not too many people want to own a car for that long. Anyone can produce anecdotes like that. I don't know a thing about AMCs, other then they're not around anymore AFAIK.

"If you've never had issues with the computer in a car, you are a very, very lucky person, based on my personal, and professional opinion. Or, you never owned a 1989-2001 vehicle, especially a GM."

Well in fact that is the total span of years I've owned GMs. Ok also had an '88 for a while. The computer died in my old Lumina, got a replacement off CL for 20$. Didn't even swap over the proms. Just plugged the new one in and it fired up. That was the only computer issue I ever had w/any GM car, and I have reason to be thankful that one time I did, because I learned a whole lot about cars during that "crisis".

"I'll keep Rambling, no worries there. "

Something told me it would be so . . .

"Sent from my Kyocera Hydro because it cost me $35 and the service is free."

I have a Hydro Vibe. I was impressed with it when I first got it (only payed 30$). It tends to disappoint me like the other K* phones I've had. Tend to be a bit buggy. How is your service free? You scarfing the neighbor's wifi?

"P.S. it's certainly possible to get the same gas mileage with a carburettor. It's just not easy these days because no one bothers to make fuel efficient carburettor setups. I'd have to build my own, and I don't have time.[/QUOTE]"

I rest my case. Professionally rebuilt carburetors are very expensive.

 

[commodorejohn]

I get a regular 28-30 MPG in my very definitely carburetored Volkswagen, even when I'm pushing it to 65-70 MPH.

 

[glitch]

I don't mind a carb, but I think I've rebuilt all of mine so far. Most of them are on stationary engines (welder, generator, et c.) but the M38A1 Jeep is still running a carburetor -- Ford Pinto engine though. Never once touched the carb on the old 1969 F600 dump truck, it would start in the dead of upstate NY winters, at -20 *F, with a few pumps of the pedal, choke on, in 3 or 4 revolutions.

Of course, the best thing going is mechanical diesel fuel injection :D Amy's still getting 45-50 MPG around town in her '79 VW Rabbit Diesel. Super simple to work on, except for the actual injection pump. That's basically a Swiss watch inside.

As to ignition, I think 100% of the gas engines I own are still points ignition. Two of them still use external impulse magnetos. Yeah, you have to maintain them and the spark isn't as hot, but the parts are really cheap and often you can get out of a problem just by filing the points a little.

 

[tipc]

fuel injection, in this era, is just more strait forward John, as strange as that sounds to some. I was terrified of dismantling a fuel rail, but it's such a joke. It just seems like "how can this be safe???!!!", with miniscule rubber o-rings keeping all that explosive gas inside the engine. But hundreds of millions of cars on the road prove the principal. I never said carburetors were inherently inefficient, just that the particulars, unless you're a devotee, just don't seem to be worth it. I do admire people who are knowledgeable of any aspects of these things. Just that some of us can only spread ourselves so thin.

Many cars don't shine until they're at higher speeds. The LT1 equipped Caprice/Roadmasters are rated 17 city, 26 highway. That's a 5.7 litre V8! Able to haul 5,000 lbs. I had learned sometime ago that although larger engines aren't as fuel efficient as smaller engines overall, larger V6s and getting up to V8s are actually more fuel efficient then their smaller capacity counterparts. At least at higher speeds.

 

[tipc]

I bought the kit to rebuild the carb in my '82 Chevy G10 van, then the tranny died. I forgot to mention that Chevy, but that was a different era as I see it (pre-87). Everyone and their brother loves the strait 6 in that thing. And although the thing gave pretty good service, it didn't last me nearly as long as the f.i. Chevy's I've had. Never had a tranny die on any other GM car (except my father's 84 Grand Prix). They must be doing something right these days. GM doesn't do everything perfect, but they've been the best value in my experience.

 

[KC9UDX]

That's not typical for any car.

Actually it is. There are lots of Diesels out there. But beyond that, there is a very popular certain vehicle which if you look you see them every day, which hasn't been in production for 16 years. Some people think they are Dodges, but they are not.

Others have ran their GMs for 300k+ miles.

I've seen that before, it's the exception though, and it's pretty scary when it happens.

Not too many people want to own a car for that long.

Which is good because then I can buy them. I don't want a new car, I want a car that has 200000mi on it already and I can predict what I will have to do to it for the next ten years.

I don't know a thing about AMCs, other then they're not around anymore AFAIK.

Right! This is why the Apple ][ was so vastly superior to the VAX. Because Apple's in business today and DEC is not. :D

"I'll keep Rambling, no worries there. "

Something told me it would be so . . .

I don't know a thing about AMCs,

I see.

I have a Hydro Vibe. I was impressed with it when I first got it (only payed 30$). It tends to disappoint me like the other K* phones I've had. Tend to be a bit buggy. How is your service free? You scarfing the neighbor's wifi?

You didn't pay $30, you paid $30 plus some monthly fee. I paid $35, and no monthly fee. Why would you accuse someone of that?? My service provider, who I do have an account with, does not charge me, that's how the service is free.

"P.S. it's certainly possible to get the same gas mileage with a carburettor. It's just not easy these days because no one bothers to make fuel efficient carburettor setups. I'd have to build my own, and I don't have time.

I rest my case. Professionally rebuilt carburetors are very expensive.

No, they aren't. Professionally rebuilt carburettors cost less than a set of fuel injectors.

But, I'm not sure what rebuilt has to do with it.

There were cars with carburettors that got better mileage than their fuel-injected counterparts. I had a '84 Firechicken with a Chevy 173 that got better gas mileage than the '85s with the same engine and mult-port injection.

The reason carburettors today do not get the kind of mileage you would with fuel injection is because there's no market for that. There never really was. By the time manufacturers started trying to make fuel-efficient fuel systems, they were starting to realise they could build things much cheaper with fuel injectors.

The reason modern fuel injection gets better gas mileage is because the computer is constantly retuning the engine. You can do that with a carburettor, and it has been done. The advantage with the carburettor is that when something goes wrong, you could still drive around without the computer or sensors or anything else. But when something isn't mass produced, it gets expensive.

 

[commodorejohn]

Not to mention that on the right kind of car a home rebuild is entirely doable and costs approximately beer money for a kit. Did that to my Volkswagen when I got it - it took all of one Saturday afternoon and made a marked difference in the performance.

 

[tipc]

Not to mention that on the right kind of car a home rebuild is entirely doable and costs approximately beer money for a kit. Did that to my Volkswagen when I got it - it took all of one Saturday afternoon and made a marked difference in the performance.

The kit for my van was certainly cheap enough. Just a bunch of small gaskets and some turned brass parts mainly. 20$ if that. The thing is with carbs is that the coating on the inside of the casting needs to be renewed sometimes. Not sure how often that becomes the case. I also bought the dip for the carb, but it wound up rusting away and the fluid spilling out.

You can rebuild a whole engine, minus machining if needed, for well under a grand usually. Then you have a brand spanking new motor that if done carefully will last virtually forever. or 371,000 miles, whichever comes first. One more mile then KC9UDX's AMC

 

[tipc]

actually you could get around w/faulty fuel circuitry. Some stupid friend hooked a makeshift gasoline vaporizer to my car once. Ok it only got it started briefly, but it did get it started! I came up with other ideas, not going to disclose them here.

It's not the case anymore unfortunately, but the BMW I drove in my early 20s had fi's that cost 25$ apiece! Yes they were more prone to failure, my mechanic had to demonstrate why my car was sputtering one day with a solenoid type device. I was shocked to find out that the cost for GM injectors a few years later for about 125$. They still are *extremely* reliable and virtually maintenance free. I don't use the crap gasoline others will, but I don't obsess over it either (in my earlier years I would ONLY buy Exxon). I should think I'd had a clogged injector or something going wrong driving the same car for 5 years. Never a problem. You're right you can get a rebuilt carb for 2-300$ oftentimes, but you'll likely need one in that same 5 year period.

I don't buy new cars anymore either. Can't see the point. I've just been extremely lucky (and know what to look for in a car), or cars are just much more reliable. But the logic of buying a car only if it has 200k on it is totally lost on me. Most everything is worn out if it already hasn't been replaced.

 

[KC9UDX]

I've never even thought about servicing a carburettor more frequently than 10 years. But, I make sure to run them once in a while and deal with bad gasoline as I have to. I've never paid more than $100 to rebuild mine with the best rebuild parts. If I had one that could be bought rebuilt, like say a factory Rochester or Carter for a production vehicle, I wouldn't spend more than $50 rebuilding it. I guess I can understand though why some people would rather buy a rebuilt one than rebuild it. I don't trust the rebuilders though.

We don't have the option of buying good gasoline round here, it's all Summer blend or Winter blend garbage. This is where electronic fuel metering really shines: most people don't realise how much the quality of gasoline fluctuates.

Buying a car with 200000 means it's dirt cheap. And, most everything is not worn out on the ones I buy. I make sure to buy ones that have been well taken-care of. Usually they have all original parts. I can completely rebuild a chassis (suspension, steering, brakes) including a suspension lift for $1000. I'd have to pay $5000 more to get a car in that condition already, and when I do the work, I know it was done right. Change my oil once or twice a year, and that 200000 mile drivetrain will go at least another 100000 if not 200000 miles. I'd easily get 400000 out of one that I have now but I just don't drive it that much anymore, and the body will be completely rotted out before I get that far.

In 17 years, I've only bought one car with less than 200000 miles, and it's the only one that didn't make it (but that was just too much rust). Of the other 9, I still own 5. One got wrecked when a kid ran a red light, one was a Chevy of the worst kind (could tell a long story about that one!), one got junked because I didn't actually own it and the owner disappeared, and one I sold because I just didn't have the room anymore. One more will go that way soon.

 

[tipc]

I wanna hear about yer Chevy. All ears. Right off the bat I'll bet it was pre-1987. But maybe we should have started a new thread.

Everyone's had bad cars. But in my experience they just keep running and running and running. Whatever. And it also may have to do with the region you live in. At least half of the driving I've done in my life was in Long Island, a mix of city and highway miles. If you're all the way out in the sticks a car takes a lot less abuse. 200,000 around here may very well mean 300,000 or more where you are. I wouldn't even consider a cart that was operated in any of the 5 boroughs. A car w/100,000 from somewhere like that is pretty close to a junker. You say dirt cheap on a 200k car. If I have to pay another 1k$ to get something with 100k or more less, in my book the extra cost well outweighs the skinned knuckles and aggravation. Sure you can have a half dozen vehicles you payed 150$ for on the property. But you can't even necessarily keep an unregistered vehicle on your property in New Jersey. Then there's the cost of registration. You have to have 1, 2, 3,... cars registered and insured around here. You get caught driving w/o insurance around here and the fines are upwards of 2k$. 20 years ago it was no big deal. When I was growing up, HA! into my 30s my cars were routinely unregistered, usually never uninsured. I was a sloppy youngster. Never collided w/another vehicle, in the top 1% as far as safe driving goes. I did hit 2 bunnies though in my life

 

[k2x4b524[]

I get a regular 28-30 MPG in my very definitely carburetored Volkswagen, even when I'm pushing it to 65-70 MPH.

1984 ford escort wagon, carb that needs work, 35+ mpg, no computer, power squat...

 

[KC9UDX]

1995 S15 Blazer. Got it from my mother-in-law because it was "cursed" and I don't believe in that. It had 246,000 miles when I got it, 3rd engine. Had a nasty whine from the rear axle which I never got around to working on. In the two years I had it, I replaced the ignition module 7 times, and the spider injector three. It absolutely never failed to die on the coldest possible days when we were the furthest from home. Once on Thanksgiving, -5F.

I got tired of the every couple months, 6MPG, fuel pouring out the tailpipe, replace the MAP sensor, O2 sensor, idle solenoid, and spider injector. So, I got an intake manifold from a boat, and put a Holley 4160 that I had laying around on it. It became the fastest S10 in town, seriously. We would get strange looks from other S10 drivers because we would be accelerating up hills passing them. It was getting 18-20MPG.

My wife tells me it's leaking oil, but she's been checking the level and topping off the oil when it gets low. One day she comes home and tells me it went "bang" 20 miles ago but she limped it home. It sounds like it's got a plugged cat. So, I check the cat and it's not overheating. Next I drain the oil to see what is in the oil. I put my empty 8qt drain pan under it and pull the drain plug. My drain pan overflows. So I scramble to get another one and fill that one to about 7qt.

I think the "leak" was a puddle in the parking lot from someone else's car. The motor got wrecked presumably from hydrolocking with all that oil in the sump.

I sell it to my boss for $500 because he has a customer that wants to build a lifted S10, and this one is in better condition. He says "Are you sure that's all you want for it? I could probably give you at least $1000." I say "I will almost pay you to take it. Everyone says it's cursed, I don't believe in that." He takes it back to the shop and parks at the top of the hill. The shop is at the bottom. In front of the shop is a customer's pickup with $20,000 of work just finished on it. In front of the truck is my boss's ATV.

He takes the straps off the S10, and it magically pops out of gear. It rolls down the trailer, down the hill, and utterly demolishes the ATV. The ATV stopped the S10 just an inch away from the fresh paint on the customer's pickup. He tells me what happened and I say "maybe it's cursed." He says he doesn't believe in that.

I quit working there, just in time. He puts a 6" lift on the S10 and does a bunch of custom sheet metal work. It looks like a million bucks. He says he's never had so much trouble working on a vehicle. He put a new motor in it, and it had problems. The transmission was acting up. A bunch of the electronics stopped working. He says it might be cursed.

The most recent vehicle I bought with over 250000 miles came from Chicago. It was a repo, and the repo guy abused it. He couldn't figure out how to get the transfer case into neutral, apparently, because he bent the shift lever with a pipe, and apparently flat-towed it in 4WD. I got it for $1200. I put $1000 worth of chassis and paint on it. I'll get another 100000 out it, easily. I do want to swap the transfer case with another one that I bought for $450 which has 375000 miles on it because that's a better case (NP242 versus NP231).