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What *I* do with them....

T

TX_Dj

Experienced Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2013
Messages
229
Location
Sachse, TX
We've all likely been asked, usually by non-enthusiasts, "But what do you *DO* with them?"

I'm sure we've all played our favorite games, and done some general poking for nostalgia's sake, but...

Well, let me tell you guys what I do... with one of them, at least.

Do any of you Apple 8-Bitters remember Diversi-Dial?

DDial was a multi-line, networked, multi-user chat system in the mid to late '80s that ran on a simple Apple II. With an Apple //e and 80-col card, you could even have email, as it used the extra 64KB on the 80 col card for email storage.

Some of you might pause, and say "MULTI-USER!? On a IIe?" Yes. That was no typo. Up to 8 users per machine, that is one on the console and 7 on modems (one for each slot). It only ever worked with two basic types of modems, the Hayes Micromodem (and compatibles) and the Novation AppleCat.

Now, I'm a modem guy. The #1 most prolific items in all of my collection are modems. I just couldn't let myself keep collecting things without having a way to use them.

So, I built this:
02-RearView.jpg


This is a phone system (and some other bits, get into that in a bit) of my own "design" (I put that in quotes, because I just put pieces together, I didn't build anything except that rack from scratch), and some extra hardware and (some custom) software that lets me take incoming connections from the intertoobs and assign them to a modem, call across the phone system, and they will land somewhere in here:

00-Modems.jpg


That, in case the context is obscured, is an Apple IIe filled with 7 modems. The astute may notice that there are two Transcend/SSM modems, two Micromodem II's, and three Micromodem IIe's in there.

When these two meet, they end up looking something like this:
04-FrontView_Operational.jpg


The system has been online just over a year, and is the result of a painstaking preservation project for RMAC, Diversi-Dial station #34, of which I was a user; which served the Dallas/Fort Worth, Texas metroplex through the mid-to-late 80's. I've posted about it in a few obscure places, but I figured since I've finally broken down and registered on this forum, this might be a good way to introduce myself to the readers here.

We're linked (networked) 24/7 with other systems, of which there is usually one other Diversi-Dial (via emulation), and three or more RetroDIAL (linux-based DDial work-alike) systems online at any given time. RMAC is the only (to my knowledge) internet-accessible DDial system currently operating in the world that is built on real hardware. There was another before me, but he shut it down years ago.

We're all very retro-friendly, if you pop in you may even see some familiar "faces".

For the telnet-savvy, you can connect to rmac.d-dial.com, for those who don't know what I'm talking about, but have Flash-capable web browsers, you can hit http://rmac.d-dial.com . In either case, please understand that you're connecting via real modems which must dial the connection, and negotiate the carrier- once connected, if you don't have a password, simply press <ENTER> to login as a guest. Help can be seen by typing /?<ENTER>, and we'd love to see you drop in some time.

Enjoy!
 
That's awesome! Is the pc at the bottom the telnet gateway? Do you have a web page with details about what all the equipment is?

I also have collected some old modems and have been bummed that I can't use them anymore. But I keep them because they're, well, just cool. I have a very early Supra (like, really early, no fancy labels, just a generic metal hayes smartmodem-like case) 1200 iirc, and an old Anderson-Jacobs 75/150/300 baud acoustic modem that you put the telephone handset into (at least I think I still have it, I got rid of some stuff last move...).
 
Soupwizard said:
That's awesome! Is the pc at the bottom the telnet gateway? Do you have a web page with details about what all the equipment is?

I also have collected some old modems and have been bummed that I can't use them anymore. But I keep them because they're, well, just cool. I have a very early Supra (like, really early, no fancy labels, just a generic metal hayes smartmodem-like case) 1200 iirc, and an old Anderson-Jacobs 75/150/300 baud acoustic modem that you put the telephone handset into (at least I think I still have it, I got rid of some stuff last move...).
Click to expand...

TBH, I never really did anything to document the "behind the scenes" hardware, but the phone system is Asterisk-based, using T1 trunks into channel banks that fan out into the analog lines. VOIP just doesn't play nicely with modems, though it is much better on a local network. The PC is the asterisk server. The box above that is an old Annex Three terminal server, that's the real workhorse of the telnet connection, that's where I "lend" you a modem and phone line, and set up the dialing. Then of course, some modems (this pic is very outdated, those two USR modems aren't on the rack anymore, and the Hayes Century rack modem bank was replaced by a Multi-Tech CC1416 rack shortly after this pic was taken). Then an ethernet switch (boooring), and an Ascend Max 4000, which even though it is wired up, I'm really only using it as a shelf to set the Apple IIe on. The Apple stuff is self explanatory, and at the top of the rack is the MDF where I handle cross-connecting analog phone connections from the 50 pairs that split out of the channel bank, which hangs on the left of the rack.

If you still have that AJ acoustic, cherish it. If you must ever be rid of it, I'll gladly pay to have it sent my way. Of all my acoustics, an Anderson-Jacobson is not one. :( (yet!)

olePigeon said:
Holy cow! :eek: Anyone else find it fun to ponder how much that kit cost in 1985?
Click to expand...


Indeed... and it's kinda mind boggling to think how much that kit cost in 2012, also.


If ya do drop in, be sure to say Hi... I've seen a couple connections since this post, but the callers didn't say anything. Can't guarantee anyone will reply, but some of our users turn off login/logout notifications, to cut down on "spam".
 
Did you happen to be at Electronics Plus a few weeks ago? If so, glad you signed up and welcome to the forums! If not, glad you signed up and welcome to the forums! ;-)
- John
 
That's beautiful. I've always wondered if anyone had setup a line emulator to allow yourself to be a "local" ISP for yourself and then link modem-only systems ot the net.
This goes beyond that with some enhancements.
 
This is pretty damn cool. I have tried to use Astrisk to bridge old modems before to get some of my text terminals and old computers "online" via one of my linux boxes (and USR modems), but I could never get VoIP to play with modems, I ended up using an old Merlin Legend PBX to handle the switching and dialing, it was much more modem friendly. Then again I was using cheap SIP ATAs, not T1 channel banks on Asterisk, was much cheaper to pick up old obsolete Merlin Legend than some channel banks, lol.

Man, now I really want to set up my old gear again, I haven't had my Merlin Legend system setup for a couple of years now since I moved, might be time to find it a new home in my basement ;-)
 
Thanks guys. It was a fun project.

I happened to find some rather inexpensive channel banks, and shopped for a long time to find a deal on a quad T1 card.

Modems are very picky about timing, understandably so. I found even with VOIP on a direct cross-over ethernet could still have enough "glitchiness" to inject random line noise. This isn't to say that voip + modem = fail. But since DDial runs at 300 bps, and has no error correction methods, it is very susceptible to error.

T1 is time division multiplexing, and is synchronous. Timing is absolutely everything on T1, otherwise you'd start hearing other calls that are on the same trunk, or random inband signaling events would occur.

I thought about using a PBX, but building one that would handle the number of talk paths seemed daunting to me.

At its historical peak, RMAC had 23 lines across 4 nodes. Some DDial stations connected local nodes via phone and modem, and some connected via a particular parallel IO card.

Since I don't have the IO cards, I need an additional 6 modems and lines just for local interconnection.

That's 52 total extensions (23 outdial, 23 answer, 6 internal link) to have 26 concurrent "conversations" on the same switch, just for a "full scale" recreation of RMAC.

I use other lines elsewhere for other things, such as http://bbs.impakt.net
 
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