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What version of DOS did the 5150 sell with?

lucasdaytona

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The 5150 is the IBM PC, and the 5160 is the IBM PC-XT. Are you talking about the 5150 or any 8088 class IBM machines?
 

krebizfan

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The DOS was offered with the 5150 was upgraded from 1.0 to 1.1 to 2 (supporting the 360kB floppy) depending on year purchased. I think the final 5150s sold had an option to be purchased with DOS 3. I don't remember if a choice of versions was offered but I think you could get either 2.1 or 3.x towards the end.
 

strollin

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Technically, the 5150 wasn't sold with any OS. There was no hard drive like newer machines so no OS was included. Originally, you could choose to buy CPM, DOS or simply use the ROM BASIC.

When I purchased my 5150 in 1984, I bought DOS 2.1 to use with it.
 

Ole Juul

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I know it used with primarily with DOS 1.0 . . .

Do you have a source for that?

From what I understand the PC was in short supply when it was first introduced in August of 1981, and by the time that DOS 1.1 was introduced in May 1982 there was no reason to buy version 1.0 any more. People also wanted support for double sided diskettes. In other words, I don't think that version 1.0 was used much by anybody.

PC DOS 2.0 was introduced on March 8, 1983, along with the XT. This version was a complete rewrite and introduced device drivers and all that UNIX goodness that made DOS so popular. PC DOS 2.1 came out on November 1, 1983 along with the IBM PCjr.

. . . but did later machines use 2.1 like the XT?
Versions 1.0 and 1.1 were very limited, and 2.0/2.1 were excellent. I don't see why anybody buying a new machine would buy an old version of DOS to run with it.
 

Chuck(G)

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Technically, the 5150 wasn't sold with any OS. There was no hard drive like newer machines so no OS was included. Originally, you could choose to buy CPM, DOS or simply use the ROM BASIC.

When I purchased my 5150 in 1984, I bought DOS 2.1 to use with it.

Indeed. I still have my receipt showing that I paid $40 for DOS 1.1. Strangely, the macro assembler was $99.
 

generic486

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I'm just wondering what my 5150 would have been sold along with. My 5150 is a later 5150, I think possibly 1986, I'll have to ask the seller.
 

vwestlife

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I'm just wondering what my 5150 would have been sold along with. My 5150 is a later 5150, I think possibly 1986, I'll have to ask the seller.

PC DOS 3.1 was released in March 1985, and PC DOS 3.2 was released in April 1986, so it would've been one of those two versions. (PC DOS 3.3 was released along with the PS/2 line in April 1987, at which point the PC, XT, and AT had all been discontinued.)
 

generic486

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Yes, I see. I'm suprised anybody bought 5150's in 1986. The one I have has one full height drive and one half height drive (no hard drive), both made for IBM. Either they ran out of full height drives or they had a hard drive in mind for customers so they didn't need to reduce the full height drive to a half height one.
 

SpidersWeb

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Yes, I see. I'm suprised anybody bought 5150's in 1986. The one I have has one full height drive and one half height drive (no hard drive), both made for IBM. Either they ran out of full height drives or they had a hard drive in mind for customers so they didn't need to reduce the full height drive to a half height one.
Probably find after a year of owning it they wanted another drive but IBM had switched to half height.

My 256KB 5150 is mid-late 1986 and has twin Tandon 360KB full height drives.
But it's my understanding (I can't confirm) that in 1987 when they released the new enhanced 5160 (which I have) with 640KB RAM they also switched to using dual half height drives and a half height 20Mb hard drive.

Also have a 1984 5160 that was upgraded to a half height floppy + 20MB drive, and inside I see IBM bracket adaptors to allow to devices to be joined (not just some generic ones), so from that I'd say that IBM half height upgrades were available at some point for the 5150/60. The rails of the 5170 were a godsend in comparison though, I hate working on a half height 5160 :/
 

yuhong

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Yes, I see. I'm suprised anybody bought 5150's in 1986. The one I have has one full height drive and one half height drive (no hard drive), both made for IBM. Either they ran out of full height drives or they had a hard drive in mind for customers so they didn't need to reduce the full height drive to a half height one.
Yea, by then I think they replaced the original 5150 with floppy only 5160s.
 

yuhong

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But it's my understanding (I can't confirm) that in 1987 when they released the new enhanced 5160 (which I have) with 640KB RAM they also switched to using dual half height drives and a half height 20Mb hard drive.
It looks like you are one year off. 1987 was when IBM replaced the PC with the PS/2.
 

Ole Juul

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Yes, I see. I'm suprised anybody bought 5150's in 1986. The one I have has one full height drive and one half height drive (no hard drive), both made for IBM. Either they ran out of full height drives or they had a hard drive in mind for customers so they didn't need to reduce the full height drive to a half height one.

The PC had a very long run. It was on sale from Wednesday, August 12, 1981, to Thursday, April 2, 1987. I don't have comparative prices handy, but I suspect that the PC was cheaper than the XT during the overlap period. I think what we forget nowadays is the practicality of running a two floppy system. It works very well in an office setting. In fact if you can find a secretary old enough to know the difference between a program and it's files, it would sometimes be practical even today - we're just spoiled. :)

Regarding DOS versions and drives for the PC, I just checked some of my notes, and find this quote from VCF member fallo which may be of interest.

fallo said:
The 64k-256k 5150 was introduced in March 1983 simultaneous with DOS 2.00

The double-sided drives and second-revision BIOS 5150s were released at the same time as DOS 1.10 -- in the spring of 1982.

When the double-sided drives came out, they were optional. The SS drives were still available, and so was the cassette model of the 5150. Both of those were discontinued when DOS 2.00 was released.

The 64k-256k models were only available with DS drives. After 1983, the 5150 remained unchanged until it was retired in early 1987, the only new thing being the arrival of EGA in 1984. Unlike the XT, it never got half-height drives or support for 101-key keyboards and 3.5" floppies.

If that last statement is true it would suggest that generic486's PC likely had a drive added after it was first sold.
 

generic486

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Guys, I will be able to find out in more depth when it arrives. This is just what I've been told/deduced.
It is a YE DATA drive which IBM had as a primary supplier from 1984 until the early Aptiva days (1994). It looks identical to the IBM PCAT 360k drives (with asterisk) except it has a black bezel. How long did IBM warranties last? I have a Model F AT keyboard produced 21 April 87 and bought sometime in Nov 1987 according to astamp on the back. I suspect this was a replacement keyboard as it was produced after the 2 April 87.
 

Chuck(G)

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Not at all uncommon, Ole. When I bought my (64K) PC, it had a single-sided FH drive installed, the minimum to run DOS. DOS 1.x floppies were either 160K for single-sided or 320K for double-sided. That is, they were recorded with 8 rather than 9 sectors per track. I added a FH B: drive very quickly thereafter.

Half-height drives really came into their own when the Japanese started selling them. That pretty much forced everyone to offer them--and after a time, they were all that was stocked by dealers.
 

Ole Juul

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Not at all uncommon, Ole. When I bought my (64K) PC, it had a single-sided FH drive installed, the minimum to run DOS. DOS 1.x floppies were either 160K for single-sided or 320K for double-sided. That is, they were recorded with 8 rather than 9 sectors per track. I added a FH B: drive very quickly thereafter.

Did you mean that adding a second drive at a later date was not uncommon?

Yep, my copies of PC-DOS 1.0 and 1.1 are both 160K. In fact it became painfully clear when I tried to write the images. I had completely forgotten about single sided and had assumed that the whole world revolved around 360K floppies (which it does). ;)

Half-height drives really came into their own when the Japanese started selling them. That pretty much forced everyone to offer them--and after a time, they were all that was stocked by dealers.

That makes a lot of sense. I'll make a note of that. I have a feeling that IBM is one of those companies who has often been "forced" to offer things because of that particular market mechanism.
 

vwestlife

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Yea, by then I think they replaced the original 5150 with floppy only 5160s.

Supplemented, not replaced. The original 5150 PC remained on sale until the PS/2 line was introduced in April 1987. They probably kept it available even after the floppy-only XT effectively made it redundant, because of large sales contracts (government, schools, industrial, etc.) which specified the "IBM Personal Computer" and allowed no substitutes. Or maybe simply because it was the cheapest IBM you could buy at the time (after they killed the PCjr)?
 

vwestlife

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Guys, I will be able to find out in more depth when it arrives. This is just what I've been told/deduced.
It is a YE DATA drive which IBM had as a primary supplier from 1984 until the early Aptiva days (1994). It looks identical to the IBM PCAT 360k drives (with asterisk) except it has a black bezel. How long did IBM warranties last? I have a Model F AT keyboard produced 21 April 87 and bought sometime in Nov 1987 according to astamp on the back. I suspect this was a replacement keyboard as it was produced after the 2 April 87.

Those Ye-Data drives were infamous for the loud and annoying THUNK noise they made when the spindle motor started, and then another loud and annoying CLACK noise when it stopped.

And as for that keyboard, maybe it's possible that IBM continued some late production of the AT to fulfill a backlog of orders placed before April 1987? I'd imagine there were quite a few customers who were not happy about the radical changes of the PS/2 line, and wanted to get their hands on the last of the ATs -- especially since there was no ISA-based 286 machine in the PS/2 lineup until the Model 30-286 was introduced over a year later, in September 1988.

Oh, and for the record, PC DOS 2.1 still came on single-sided disks -- one System disk and one Supplemental Programs disk. Thus when making a backup, you could fit the contents of both onto one double-sided 360K disk.
 
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