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Xerox 16/8 on the way...

L

Lord Moz

Experienced Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
217
Location
Texas
As luck would have it, I was doing my regular eBay wandering through the Vintage Computing catagory, and happened across this "Xerox Terminal 8 in disk drive v5.00 1983 h70 u07" less than an hour after it was posted. The price wasn't insane, so after a bit of talking with my father (who has an 820), I decided to buy it.

So, now I need software for the thing. Does anyone here have images for any of this thing's software? CP/M 2.2, CP/M 86 or MS-DOS 2? I found the manuals on bitsavers, and they have been very interesting to read, but I can't seem to find any software for it.

When this thing arrives, any suggestions or cautions before I power it on? From the auction's pictures, the computer itself is obviously functional, but the disk assembly is my main concern here, especially with the technical manual warning that the fixed disk heads have a slight chamfer and can gauge the media if rotated counter-clockwise. I asked the seller to properly engage the drive lock on the fixed disk, and sent him a link to the instruction manual. Hopefully he will be able to do that for me, and isn't upset to find it isn't a "terminal" and is a vintage computer like he thought it was.

This will be my first CP/M system with a fixed disk, and only my 3rd CP/M system total, after my Kaypro IV and Commodore 128 & 128D (my only CP/M system with a 3.5" disk heh). I suppose it will also be my only MS-DOS system with an 8" floppy. Along with the other manuals I found, I saw a document on using MS-DOS 2.0 with 8" floppies.

This is the thrill of vintage machines for me :) I was 3 when these things were new...

Anyway, any help, suggestions, cautions or ideas are welcome.

Thanks in advance to everyone :D
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Trevor
 
Unfortunately, no, I don't at the moment, but am not opposed to to acquiring one. This will be my first 8 inch floppy system. I still need to get some media. Is there a better place to get 8 inch disks than eBay? I see a listing on our Vintage Marketplace here, but the listing doesn't indicate if the disks are 1/2 sided or SD/DD.

Obviously, I need 8" media regardless, but after that, would bootstrapping over the serial port through the monitor work, or would getting an 8" floppy working on an older PC be easier/better?

What OS boot disk do you have for it?

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Trevor
 
Lord Moz said:
Unfortunately, no, I don't at the moment, but am not opposed to to acquiring one. This will be my first 8 inch floppy system. I still need to get some media. Is there a better place to get 8 inch disks than eBay? I see a listing on our Vintage Marketplace here, but the listing doesn't indicate if the disks are 1/2 sided or SD/DD.

Obviously, I need 8" media regardless, but after that, would bootstrapping over the serial port through the monitor work, or would getting an 8" floppy working on an older PC be easier/better?

What OS boot disk do you have for it?
Click to expand...

You could always attach a 5.25" DSHD floppy to your system if you want to economize on media.

I'll have to check, but I believe the disks I have are CP/M 86/80.
 
I could do that, and may end up doing it, but I want to at least try to get the 8" disks up and running. Part of the charm of the vintage systems eh? :)

Any special type of 5.25 drives it needs? I have plenty of 360KB and 1.2MB drives and disks here.

I'm really hoping the fixed disk is still functional. The seller called me a while ago and left a voicemail to discuss the shipping arrangements, but I missed his call, and he wasn't answering when I returned his call.

The system docs say the 8086 can be expanded to 256KB. Is that the absolute upper limit, or can anything more useful be fitted onto it?

The system is in AZ, so not too terribly far from TX. Hopefully it has a quick and gentle trip through the desert.
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Trevor
 
Take a look at the 820-II technical manual--I seem to remember that these things could take either 8" or 5.25" drives.

If it's as a substitute for 8", a drive such as the Teac FD-55GFR should do, jumpered for 360 RPM, high-density, ready output. Use DSHD media.
 
Well, I hope the 16/8 will be on its way soon. Seems the seller "discovered" that he "underestimated" the value of the machine and is trying to cancel the transaction.

I declined, and sent him a message. I will have to see what happens.

He posted it with a buy-it-now price. Am I wrong not having a lot of sympathy if he doesn't think it sold for enough? I mean, no one kept him from doing any research on the machine before selling it, or made him post it as a buy-it-now... right?

*sigh*

I don't like confrontations, and I don't like being rude, but I really do want this machine, and don't think it's fair to back out just because he set a price that in his hind-sight is not to his liking.

Has anyone else had any problems like this?
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Trevor
 
There's all sorts of language on the eBay web site that a bid represents a contract between buyer and seller. If he tries to back out, he's guilty of breach, particularly if he accepted your payment. He needs to be reported to eBay.
 
I hope it doesn't come to that, but I will if necessary. He says he can't "give it away" after learning its value. But whose job is it to do that research? And isn't that almost the whole point of a regular auction? To see what the market thinks an item is worth?
He posted a 26 year old computer for sale at $75 buy it now. I think he "discovered" its value after I sent the operations manual to him so he could secure the fixed disk's spindle for shipping. That, or he thinks the other 820 on ebay is representative of it's value ($889?!?!?! lol).

He tried to get some sympathy saying he needed dental work, but I told him that although I wished him the best of health, that wasn't really relevant to our transaction.

So, have to see what he decides next. He already refunded my money, but I told him I still wanted the item he contracted to sell me, and would appreciate a total shipping amount. I even told him I wasn't opposed to "reasonable" packing and handling fees.

Grrr. Really hope this doesn't get worse.

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Trevor
 
You know, I've never had that happen either until just recently where a seller wanted to back out because they didn't get a price they expected. It was just a few games (honestly the prices weren't very far off since this WAS a public auction I felt it reflected accurate market interest) but I let it go and let him back out. I guess I didn't need the game that much but it was still kinda snooty of the seller. I also saw a few canceled auctions when the seller didn't like the current price recently. Not sure if these are folks who are new to ebay or what. Used to be a garage sale, you sell it because you don't want it.. if it sells then good if not you do whatever. Now it's like the seller needs assurance that they can make a huge profit.
 
Yea, I don't really get it either. A deal's a deal, right? He's the one who set the price on a BiN.

But I did get another deal. Maybe not quite as much of a "steal," but I'm happy. I purchased a Kaypro 4 and 10, complete with manuals and software for $150 + ~$85 shipping. They will join my Kaypro IV, also complete with disks and manuals. Seems to be the sellers first auction, so hope there is no drama there either.

There is this guy, who thinks the disks and manuals, plus some magazines alone are worth $150... heh at least he has a "Best Offer" button.
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Trevor
 
Update from the seller...

Update from the seller...

Some people :rolleyes:

From the top...:

Sent: Mon 7/19/2010 5:23 PM
Dear lordmoz,

I am sorry after lerning the value of this unit I can not give it away also it is to heavy to ship USPS . I have started the prosses to cancel the transaction I hope you will approve it , I am also returning your money now . I hope you will be understanding I am struguling finacialy and in need of dental care
- srekeptrank

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Sent: Mon 7/19/2010 5:46 PM
Dear srekeptrank,

You posted a buy-it-now auction, and I purchased your item. As stated in eBay rules, this is a legal transaction. If you were not sure of the item's value, you could have posted it as a regular auction.

I don't mean to be un-sympathetic, and I am sorry about any health issues you have, but that isn't really relevant to the transaction here.

USPS will ship packages up to 70 pounds, so the computer should fit into 2 or 3 boxes, as necessary. If you do not wish to ship it USPS, and believe another carrier might be less expensive, I do not really have a preference.

I am willing to pay reasonable packing and handling fees, but nothing excessive.

Again, I am sorry if you feel the price is low, but this was a buy-it-now auction.
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Trevor
- lordmoz

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Sent: Mon 7/19/2010 7:08 PM
Dear lordmoz,

I made a mistake in identfying the unit I thought it was a temanal it is not , I am also mentaly didabled do to a tramatic head injury and there are laws that protect me do as you will , I am not sending the unit out
- srekeptrank

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Mon 7/19/2010 7:15 PM
Dear srekeptrank,

Identification of the product is your responsibility. My wife is a brain injury patient as well, missing a brain lobe. I am aware of no laws allowing you to back out of a legal contract.

I am federal government employee, as soldier in the United States Army, and have plenty of resources available to me as well.

You made a legally binding contract to sell the merchandise. You are free to reread your eBay rules and terms you agreed to when creating your account, and agreed to again by offering your item for sale.

If you do not intend to do the honorable thing and fulfill your legal obligation, I will have to take it up with eBay and see what other option are appropriate.

Please do not make this difficult for either of us, and honor your obligation and commitment.
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Trevor
- lordmoz



*sigh* again.

Any suggestions? Anything I should have done differently? Or try next? He refunded my money... so do I just report him and give up? Negative feedback would tarnish his 100% (85) but I really want that computer! :)

Hope my Kaypro 10 can fill at least some of the fun... even if it can't run DOS stuff.
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Trevor
 
Lord Moz said:
Well, I hope the 16/8 will be on its way soon. Seems the seller "discovered" that he "underestimated" the value of the machine and is trying to cancel the transaction.

He posted it with a buy-it-now price. Am I wrong not having a lot of sympathy if he doesn't think it sold for enough? I mean, no one kept him from doing any research on the machine before selling it, or made him post it as a buy-it-now... right?

I don't like confrontations, and I don't like being rude, but I really do want this machine, and don't think it's fair to back out just because he set a price that in his hind-sight is not to his liking.

Has anyone else had any problems like this?
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Trevor
Click to expand...

About 4 months ago I bought an HP keyboard from Impact Computers for $47.59. I was listed as on sale and the price wasn't too unreasonable. After I paid for it I got a phone call from their sales department saying they wanted more money for it. That their prices fluctuated with the market and the price now is $110.00. I was so piss off I told them "No, for that price I can buy a complete terminal with keyboard and monitor". They then refunded my money(PayPal). It took them a couple of weeks to change the price on their website. Here is their current listing:

http://www.impactcomputers.com/c3341-60201.html

It's all hind site now, but I should have made their life a living hell until they honored the advertised price. Kept calling their customer service every 5 minutes, flood their FAX number with about 200 faxes etc...

Checking the Better Business Bureau came up with the following results for this company:

BBB Rating

Based on BBB files, this business has a BBB Rating of C on a scale from A+ to F.
Reasons for this rating include:
  • 100 complaints filed against business
 
Lord Moz said:
Any suggestions? Anything I should have done differently? Or try next? He refunded my money... so do I just report him and give up? Negative feedback would tarnish his 100% (85) but I really want that computer! :)

Hope my Kaypro 10 can fill at least some of the fun... even if it can't run DOS stuff.
Click to expand...

Crikey. Report him to eBay. He's got the system; he's not going to give it up, but maybe eBay can give him the boot. You should have refused the refund.

I've had only one instance where a seller asked for more money--and it was legit. He underestimated shipping costs, so it was fine for me to pay (after checking rates myself) the extra for shipping. He even agreed to take a $20 hit on the deal.

But flakes, geez. Wish them a happy life and be relieved that you didn't lose any money. You're not going to win this one. Wait for the next treasure to show up. Life is too short.
 
I reported him to eBay, they sent him a nastygram reminding him that the sale is a legal contract and warn him that he could lose his account and be barred from creating new accts as well.
As far as the refund, he did that on his own, I didn't have any opportunity to deny that. It was the request to cancel the transaction that I declined.

If I don't "win," I will survive, of course... but I'm not ready to give up yet. I got myself all worked up reading up on this thing... I want it now :p
Being in the Army, I'm used to having to work a bit ;)

I've got 60+ days of leave... I could see how he responds to the idea of small claims court :angry:
I haven't been to AZ in a while, and never to Phoenix. I did my Advanced Individual Training at Ft Huacuca near Sierra Vista. I could use a vacation ;)
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Trevor
 
Ft Huachuca wasn't all that bad. I spent ~5.5 months there before coming here to Ft Hood. I was there from June through November in 2005, and remember the regularly scheduled showers that seemed perfectly timed to hit us as we were marching to (or from, or both) lunch chow. Was interesting to see it rain sideways. I grew up in Portland, OR and hadn't ever seen that before.

Ft Hood is really exile for computer geeks. Dallas and Austin have all the nifty stuff, but both are a fair commute for me.
I suppose it's just as well, if I was living back home in Portland, my house would probably be completely packed full of stuff by now.
Shipping costs are kind of a natural disincentive to overaccumulation eh? :p

Sitting at 103 systems now... :d

MikeS: Define exorbitant in relation to 8" floppies :)
I've got a mild interest in getting a 8" drive hooked up to an old 486 or something now though.

Tomorrow my OS-9000 will show up and I will get to explore that. I didn't bother to ask the seller what platform it was for... I figure if I don't already have a compatible system, I will just have to get one :D

So much to do!

edit: exile is Kuwait in August... 145 degrees! My company got there in the middle of Aug '06, about 12:30am and it was still 96. You really can't imagine it. It's an entirely different world. When we finally got to Iraq (Baghdad for me), I was actually talking about how much cooler it was, and it was 118!! I wouldn't wish Kuwait on anyone, especially a "wonderful" little place called Camp Buehring. My 15 months in Iraq were much preferable to the 15 days I spent there, even with the dust storms :p
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Trevor
 
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I have used ebay for 10 years with little if any problem, last month or so there have been 3 cases I had to have ebay go after (non shipment mostly). Last year I think I had one idiot who listed a motherboard for $10 shipping and $.99 opening bid. I won it because nobody else bid, he bitched cause it didn't cover his shipping so I let that slide and canceled that auction, he relisted it with a higher shipping charge. I could have made him ship but the board wasn't that important to me at the time (found a local replacement for the same money).

I think it is a mix of people thinking old machines are worth their weight in gold (going by a few high priced sellers) and the fact that they are flat broke and spent your money on other stuff instead of shipping their product. In desperate times there are too many people jumping on ebay who should not be sellers.
 
Lord Moz said:
exile is Kuwait in August... 145 degrees! My company got there in the middle of Aug '06, about 12:30am and it was still 96. You really can't imagine it. It's an entirely different world. When we finally got to Iraq (Baghdad for me), I was actually talking about how much cooler it was, and it was 118!! I wouldn't wish Kuwait on anyone, especially a "wonderful" little place called Camp Buehring. My 15 months in Iraq were much preferable to the 15 days I spent there, even with the dust storms
Click to expand...

Betcha the natives say, "Yes, but it's a dry heat..." :)
 
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